Opinion Why India Must Reconsider Engine Choice for Tejas Mk2? Taking Lessons from F404 Engine Delays for Tejas Mk1A

Recent delays in the delivery of American-made GE F404 engines for the Tejas Mk1A fighter jet are raising significant concerns about India's growing dependency on foreign suppliers for critical military hardware.

According to defence analyst Pathikrit Payne, these disruptions should serve as a crucial lesson for the nation's more ambitious Tejas Mk2 programme, highlighting a strategic vulnerability that could impact the future of the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The current production schedule for the Tejas Mk1A aircraft has been affected by interruptions in the supply of its F404 engines. General Electric (GE), the manufacturer, has pointed to global supply chain constraints as the primary cause for the delay.

Mr. Payne, a Senior Research Fellow at the Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee Research Foundation, noted in a recent analysis that these issues cast doubt on the long-term dependability of relying on a single source for such vital components.

The Tejas Mk2 is a far more advanced and critical project for India's defence preparedness. This Medium Weight Fighter is engineered to be a cornerstone of the IAF, eventually replacing ageing fleets of Jaguar, Mirage 2000, and MiG-29 aircraft.

"The Tejas Mk-2 is a far more critical project than its predecessor," stated Mr. Payne. "Any uncertainty regarding the engine supply, especially at this scale, could have serious operational repercussions."

In an agreement signed during a state visit in June 2023, India and the United States finalised a deal for GE to jointly manufacture its more powerful F414 engines in India to power the Tejas Mk2. This deal includes a significant transfer of technology, estimated at around 80%.

However, Mr. Payne argues that despite this positive step, India must actively pursue alternative options to avoid potential bottlenecks and geopolitical pressures in the future.

As a measure of strategic hedging, experts suggest India should explore engine options from established defence partners like France and Russia.

France's Safran M88 engine, which already powers the IAF's fleet of Rafale jets, presents an option with logistical and maintenance advantages. Similarly, Russia's Klimov RD-93MA engine, an advanced variant of the engine used on MiG fighters, could be considered.

"The objective is not to replace the F414 immediately, but to have fallback options," Mr. Payne explained, adding that a diverse supplier base enhances India's negotiating power and strengthens its domestic defence industry.

Ultimately, the long-term solution lies in developing a homegrown engine.

For years, India's Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) has worked on the indigenous GTX-35VS Kaveri engine, though it has yet to achieve the required thrust for a frontline fighter.

There is a renewed focus on accelerating this programme, potentially through a joint venture with an international partner like France's Safran, to develop a next-generation engine for India's future combat aircraft.

The Tejas Mk2 is scheduled for induction into the IAF in the early 2030s and is expected to serve for several decades. Ensuring its production remains free from the influence of a single supplier is considered essential for maintaining India’s strategic autonomy and national security.

 

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[Vasugali]

One alternative is 177s engines being put forward by Russia with TOT and local manufacturing.This !177S could be considered for upgrading SU 30 MKI and also could be considered as an alternative to GE 414 in view of the GE drama delaying Tejas MKIa. But GOI and IAF could be considering the threat of US CAATSA and other repercussions in case of choosing 177S engine. Right now 177S seems to be ahead of RR,GE and French engines as far developement is concerned. However other aspects like facing sanctions and involvement, if any , of the Chinese in supplying components in the manufacturing 177S engines

 

[pgahlot]

Tejas MK-2 should have domestic built engine. That's why I strongly feel that we should finalize the engine contract with RR or Japanese IHI (if they ready for full TOT & IPR with know-how and know-why). Safran and GE are not trustworthy enough and they can back-off any time.

 

[Vishwanath Vijay Thomre]

What ever is said and done about our Indian brand Tejas, HAL, DRDO. The recent positives are that there is no single player HAL. The recent news that L&T has given the wings section shows that the manufacturing has been scattered in public-private domain which are good signs. This is the very great news in itself. There is absolutely no doubt that Tejas Mk2 will be an absolute game changer for IAF and we should look to hasen this platform. Tejas Mk2 will be far more superior than Raphael as we will be having absolute control on our home grown platform. Till the Tejas Mk2 gets inducted the more advanced munitions like the Gandiv, Rudram 2/3, BrahMos NG all will be available for induction which are in their testing stage and to be ready by 2028-2030. The Tejas Mk2 with all these munitions in its 11/12 hard points will be an absolute nightmare to enimies in sky. As correctly said in this topic of discussion we should be very very careful in engine selection and should have atleast 3 options for engine for Tejas Mk2. Tejas Mk2 should not get killed for nonavailability of engines, this is the best platform India and IAF is waiting dearly. Just imagine Tejas Mk2 along with Ghatak production to be done by L&T and in its advanced testing also to be inducted by 2030 will be an absolute game changer in the Indian Sky.
No more Raphale as our more advanced Tejas Mk2 is about to roar.​

 

[Doc]

The USA is a ‘fair weather’ friend – in fact they have no ‘permanent’ friends (UK is a special case). NATO seems to be falling apart thanks to a madman at the helm.

So, reliance on ‘regular’ supplies of the 404 engine is a hope fraught with danger. The same is the case with the 414 engine. We just cannot rely on them, as they’ll ditch you at the drop of a hat and cite myriad reasons for the break in timeframes and interrupted supply of engines.

If we can expect a ‘dirty deal’ from GE, then, to cover our backs we have no option, but to look at France, Russia and Japan as ‘more reliable’ partners. In the negotiations for co-production of engines we need to ensure full ToT, IPR and ‘freedom to sell’. It is reported that the deal with GE gives us only 80% ToT, which is neither here nor there.

The French have a later variant to the M88 – the T-Rex which is intended to power the F5 standard of the Rafale. Power output is 88kN, ideal for the Tejas Mk2; just Google it.

Presently, AMCA Mk1 is slated to use the 414 engine which also produces 88kN. For the AMCA Mk2, a more powerful engine (110-130kN) that permits super-cruise is a must.

The Kaveri engine is a dodo.Its dry version is being considered for UCAVs. As such, we believe the Russian AL-41F1 (117S) on offer (?) with a power output of 142kN would serve the purpose for our AMCA Mk2. The AL-31 is presently in use with our Su-30s and as such, a lot of commonality would exist.

 

[Foxbat]

Tejas MK-2 should have domestic built engine. That's why I strongly feel that we should finalize the engine contract with RR or Japanese IHI (if they ready for full TOT & IPR with know-how and know-why). Safran and GE are not trustworthy enough and they can back-off any time.

Absolutely agree. I am not in favour dealings with Safran and GE engines bcoz of bitter lessons we have through. Safran and GE are money suckers, they know that has the spending power so both withhold crucial technologies but offer either finished product or partial technologies. Both are cunning merchants. However the the Indian defence ministry officials, GTRE and HAL top management executives should ply their trade cautiously in future project dealings with potential partners. When we have ample of engine manufacturers at our disposal we have the ptivy to pick and choose the best but ideal foreign partner to co produce an advanced technology fighter engine for Tejas Mk2 and AMCA. But I find our GTRE is still in flip flop mode undecided on the decision to produce Tejas Mk2 AMCA. Conflicting news are published that in one moment it says GTRE has decided to produce all engines locally with private sectors involvement. In another news that GTRE is looking for foreign collaboration to co produce 6th gen fighter engines. Too much time consuming to finalise a decision making with one mind one goal.

 

[Doc]

The USA is a ‘fair weather’ friend – in fact they have no ‘permanent’ friends (UK is a special case). NATO seems to be falling apart thanks to a madman at the helm.

So, reliance on ‘regular’ supplies of the 404 engine is a hope fraught with danger. The same is the case with the 414 engine. We just cannot rely on them, as they’ll ditch you at the drop of a hat and cite myriad reasons for the break in timeframes and uninterrupted supply of engines.

If we can expect a ‘dirty deal’ from GE, then, to cover our backs we have no option, but to look at France, Russia and Japan as ‘more reliable’ partners. In the negotiations for co-production of engines we need to ensure full ToT, IPR and ‘freedom to sell’. It is reported that the deal with GE gives us only 80% ToT, which is neither here nor there.

The French have a later variant to the M88 – the T-Rex which is intended to power the F5 standard of the Rafale. Power output 88kN; ideal for the Tejas Mk2. For the AMCA, a more powerful engine that permits super-cruise is a must. It is understood that the Russsian AL-41 also has the same (88kN) power. Ideal engine for the AMCA, specially with the commonality with the Su-30MKI.

The hunt for an engine from Safran, is therefore NOT understood. This, when French and Russian ready-made engines already exist.

Do you smell a rat????

 

[Doc]

Is there a glitch in this site?

I ask because yesterday's post disappeared.
Luckily the 'saved' copy of that post hadn't been deleted from my PC.
I posted the same copy and this has ALSO DISAPPEARED!!!!!!!!!

What's up????