India's Missed Flight: Why the An-12 Could Have Changed the Game

India's Missed Flight: Why the An-12 Could Have Changed the Game


Picture those classic workhorse airplanes, the kind that haul cargo and troops in and out of tricky spots. Back in the day, India relied heavily on the Antonov An-12, a sturdy Soviet-era transport plane. But here's where things get interesting – China also used the An-12, though they took a different path. They didn't just buy them; they figured out how to build them themselves, calling their version the Y-8.

That decision turned out to be a game-changer for China. They didn't just copy the An-12; they adapted it, making over 40 different versions! Imagine the same basic plane re-imagined for everything from dropping paratroopers to carrying medical supplies. This massive production boost didn't just fill China's military needs; it helped jumpstart their entire airplane-building industry.

Now, what if India had done the same? Think about it: building the An-12 in India would have put a whole generation of Indian engineers up close and personal with this aircraft. They'd have learned its secrets, its strengths, its weaknesses. That know-how could have fueled India's own airplane designs.

Plus, building planes at home means you don't have to rely on another country for every spare part. It could have made India way more independent when it comes to keeping their aircraft in the skies, maybe even saving money in the long run. And just like China, India could have started tweaking the An-12: better engines, modern electronics, more cargo space – all tailored for India's own unique needs.

Looking back, it seems like India might have missed a golden opportunity by not building An-12s themselves. That experience, that knowledge, could have fast-tracked India's path toward building its own powerful aircraft industry.

Of course, it's too late for the An-12. But that doesn't mean the lesson is lost. Maybe the next time India needs a new military transport, they'll consider building them in partnership with another country. That way, they get the planes they need, and build up their own skills for the future.
 
Say a big NO as Russian spare parts supply chain screwed up royally.
All Russian transports must be retired for the same reason and difficult to upgrade and/or maintain.
Russian transport planes availability is very poor as all of us know.

Go for more Lockheed Martin C-130Js or Embraer C390 if they open local production facilities with whatever TOT they can provide and get ready for two fron wars.

Also there are hundreds of used C-130s available in the world.
UK is retiring its older C-130s with useful life left in them so India can think about buying them.
India should consider buying and upgrading some of them with useful lives.
 
Reference the article, great opportunity lies ahead in designing fuel efficient aircrafts with modern technology. We should therefore think about creating the aerospace ecosystem, building capabilities and capacities in manufacturing & create hub centers in different states for turboprop & jets and let HAL focus in niche areas. The country has the ability to build JVs/SPV for aircraft manufacturing
 
Thats China…. U can’t have similar expectations from HAL!!!
China manufactured licensed Mig21 to Su27… then they built numerous fighters and engines based on these jets… they even reverse engg Israeli Lavi fighter… obviously they took decades but today they r successful!!!!
Where as look at HAL, they r also licence building numerous fighters from Russia and West but still not able to make a Mid catagory fighter or a engine… still struggling to deliver first mk1a to IAF….
 
Say a big NO as Russian spare parts supply chain screwed up royally.
All Russian transports must be retired for the same reason and difficult to upgrade and/or maintain.
Russian transport planes availability is very poor as all of us know.

Go for more Lockheed Martin C-130Js or Embraer C390 if they open local production facilities with whatever TOT they can provide and get ready for two fron wars.

Also there are hundreds of used C-130s available in the world.
UK is retiring its older C-130s with useful life left in them so India can think about buying them.
India should consider buying and upgrading some of them with useful lives.
No one is saying we should open a line for the An-12 today. The article is opining we should have gone for local production under license of the An-12 back in the early 1960s, which was when we started using the type.

It should be remembered that the An-12 even served in 1962. Of course, a production line today makes no sense considering that the type is obsolete, and the IAF phased them out back in 1995.
 
Major bottleneck is funding. Fighter jet development requires lot of funding. May be in future, when fighter jet lines stabilize or economy grows to that level, we can start with cargo planes and choppers.
 
One can write a book on all missed opportunities by our Armed forces 🙂
 
Thats China…. U can’t have similar expectations from HAL!!!
China manufactured licensed Mig21 to Su27… then they built numerous fighters and engines based on these jets… they even reverse engg Israeli Lavi fighter… obviously they took decades but today they r successful!!!!
Where as look at HAL, they r also licence building numerous fighters from Russia and West but still not able to make a Mid catagory fighter or a engine… still struggling to deliver first mk1a to IAF….
The difference is that India or HAL doesn't hack or steal technology from other countries or break contract agreements by not developing a copy. China has copied most of it from Russia which they weren't suppose to do but in the end Russia didn't object or say anything to China about breaking the contract. India could always do the same
 
India could of made these planes under license in India as we ordered a large number which would of made sense in manufacturing it under license in India but as always the corrupt jihadi party cared more about getting fat commissions and overpaid to buy them off the shelf.

Most need to be replaced and currently there is no alternative that gives us a best value for money or technology deal. These plane and technology are very old and they need to retire them as soon as possible unless they do a major refit and upgrade which would be very expensive.

The best solution is to make a deal with Ukraine to manufacture their Antonov 70 which meets our requirements and capabilities. Ukraine need the money as they are losing the war and their military industry is largely destroyed so India would get a very good deal if they came to a agreement.
 
Say a big NO as Russian spare parts supply chain screwed up royally.
All Russian transports must be retired for the same reason and difficult to upgrade and/or maintain.
Russian transport planes availability is very poor as all of us know.

Go for more Lockheed Martin C-130Js or Embraer C390 if they open local production facilities with whatever TOT they can provide and get ready for two fron wars.

Also there are hundreds of used C-130s available in the world.
UK is retiring its older C-130s with useful life left in them so India can think about buying them.
India should consider buying and upgrading some of them with useful lives.
And NATO/US/France/UK supply lines are so great that they have to show Zelinsky the middle finger when he is fighting for Ukraine's survival. Pathetic.
 
Thats China…. U can’t have similar expectations from HAL!!!
China manufactured licensed Mig21 to Su27… then they built numerous fighters and engines based on these jets… they even reverse engg Israeli Lavi fighter… obviously they took decades but today they r successful!!!!
Where as look at HAL, they r also licence building numerous fighters from Russia and West but still not able to make a Mid catagory fighter or a engine… still struggling to deliver first mk1a to IAF….
Its not a good behaviour to back stab friendly nations. China might have short term gains but for sure they will have long term losses. Reverse engineering will create an extremely bad culture - people will lack creativity, lack understanding, carry forward all the backdoors and not truly develop technology. You are forever at the mercy of stealing.

Our problem is not tech, but the vested interests in buying foreign equipment. Our missile & space programs are among the best in the world - nobody is willing to sell us those things and we developed them. For other hardware, there are sellers and bad actors involved who are pushing their purchase.
 
Crony capitalist monopolist like Tata have influenced the government against MTA and RTA.
What? How exactly have they influenced the government against the RTA? Are you simply against corporations in general?
 
India could of made these planes under license in India as we ordered a large number which would of made sense in manufacturing it under license in India but as always the corrupt jihadi party cared more about getting fat commissions and overpaid to buy them off the shelf.

Most need to be replaced and currently there is no alternative that gives us a best value for money or technology deal. These plane and technology are very old and they need to retire them as soon as possible unless they do a major refit and upgrade which would be very expensive.

The best solution is to make a deal with Ukraine to manufacture their Antonov 70 which meets our requirements and capabilities. Ukraine need the money as they are losing the war and their military industry is largely destroyed so India would get a very good deal if they came to a agreement.
I agree. Why no one has taken the An-70 as a potential contender for the MTA tender is beyond me.

A 47 ton payload is truly exceptional, and would allow us to essentially replace the Il-76MD (48 ton payload) on a one-to-one basis with additional aircraft. Most other parameters are also similar, except the lower maximum speed and reduced ranges at heavier payloads.

We really should be considering the An-70 or modification thereof as a Il-76 replacement. The only challenge I see to that with our stance on the Russian invasion, any procurement would be interesting, to say the least.
 
What? How exactly have they influenced the government against the RTA? Are you simply against corporations in general?
They are incapable, greedy and crony, so instead of taking risk in R&D they do screw driving. They are the major reason India is not competitive country, but living in colonial times. They agents of foreign countries OEM, AND SHAMELESS THERE TO STOP ANY DEVELOPMENT. rta DIED WHEN tata TOOK OVER AIR iNDIA AND GOT ITS C-295 SINGLE VENDOR DEAL. . bUT an ILLITERATE MIND LOVES NONSENSE and no develop. Always for the cost of foreign product the development of our own product would cost less, but then we have industries to develop , and then we can be a superpower, but bstards do not want India to progress like Tata who did not even have a factory or put up investment till his single vendor deal got passed.
 
Crony capitalist monopolist like Tata have influenced the government against MTA and RTA.
If that's has been a case then TATA might have persuaded the Government to put the F21 among the 2 final contenders in MMRCA deal contention along with Rafale & kicked out Eurofighter typhoon from the final round & then choose the F21 super viper over Rafale in MMRCA deal for 36 aircraft followed by the 114 productions under make in India deal as TATA was the local partner for the Lockheed Martin for the MMRCA deal & was offering F16 new avatar F21 but forget about it's selection rather it was unable to make it to the final rounds of selection among the 2 final contenders which ultimately proving yours conspiracy theory wrong because in MMRCA the level of financial resources budgetary provisions & related stakes were much much higher than MTA project to make worth of it n take pie out of it .. So comes out of yours leftist socialist delusional world ASAP as that's era has gone past it's worth even in Russia & communists China
 
They are incapable, greedy and crony, so instead of taking risk in R&D they do screw driving. They are the major reason India is not competitive country, but living in colonial times. They agents of foreign countries OEM, AND SHAMELESS THERE TO STOP ANY DEVELOPMENT. rta DIED WHEN tata TOOK OVER AIR iNDIA AND GOT ITS C-295 SINGLE VENDOR DEAL. . bUT an ILLITERATE MIND LOVES NONSENSE and no develop. Always for the cost of foreign product the development of our own product would cost less, but then we have industries to develop , and then we can be a superpower, but bstards do not want India to progress like Tata who did not even have a factory or put up investment till his single vendor deal got passed.
Why on Earth should they take a risk in R&D if they don't see a return from it? Do you know how a private company works? Besides nationalism, they are also answerable to their shareholders. They are willing to invest and make stuff when they know it will sell. Just look at Kalyani, and to a lesser extent, Tata and Mahindra these days. They are slowly working up the ladder.

Secondly, any company has to work it's way up. You can't just tell someone to start manufacturing high-grade hardware from scratch. They need to ease their way in.

"RTA died when Tata took over Air India and got it's C-295 single-vendor deal": What utter nonsense are you on about? RTA was nascent for a long time before Tata re-purchased Air India. Even if Air India had remained nationalised, RTA wasn't going to happen. Moreover, the RTA is in a different class of aircraft entirely than something like an A320 or a Boeing 737 is. There isn't a direct comparison there. Finally, how exactly do you compare a civilian airline's (Air India) orders with a military order for the C-295? Make some sense, would you, please?
 
No one is saying we should open a line for the An-12 today. The article is opining we should have gone for local production under license of the An-12 back in the early 1960s, which was when we started using the type.

It should be remembered that the An-12 even served in 1962. Of course, a production line today makes no sense considering that the type is obsolete, and the IAF phased them out back in 1995.
Ever heard of AN-32 and its travails.
 
We have 11 of the C7 globe master which is second in quantity as compared to the US which has more than the remaining next 5 countries combined. The C130 J is a fine transporter but the C7 Globe master is no less.
 
First point India is not China, their local production of Su27 in 1990s has yielded J-11 to J-15 variants, our HAL has serial produced Su30MKI and yet we cannot maintain timely deliveries of existing aircrafts, we are not one man rule such as China and a lot of ground politics shape the decisions in India along with mindset of "Government Job".
 

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