American Tech in Spanish S-80 Plus Subs Raises Concerns for Indian Navy, Particularly ToT

India's pursuit of new submarines under Project-75I is encountering a potential roadblock due to concerns over American technology embedded in the Spanish S-80 Plus submarine, a leading contender in the Indian Navy's tender.

The heart of the matter lies in the extensive use of American systems within the S-80 Plus, including Lockheed Martin's advanced sonar technology crucial for underwater operations. While these systems offer cutting-edge capabilities, they have raised eyebrows among Indian naval officials due to potential challenges in technology transfer (ToT) and integration with indigenous systems.

India places a high value on ToT to foster self-reliance in defense capabilities. However, the integration of American technology complicates this goal, as the extent to which Navantia, the Spanish shipbuilder, can offer a comprehensive ToT package remains uncertain. Concerns about long-term operational autonomy and the ability to integrate Indian-made weapons into the submarine's combat system have also emerged.

The Indian Navy is set to meticulously evaluate the S-80 Plus's performance and seek clarification on ToT terms from both Navantia and its competitor, Germany's TKMS, in the coming weeks.

The spotlight is now on Navantia. To secure the contract, the Spanish company must address the Indian Navy's concerns head-on and present a convincing ToT package that aligns with India's stringent requirements for technological self-sufficiency. The outcome of these negotiations will not only shape India's submarine program but also have broader implications for defense technology transfer in the region.

As the Indian Navy navigates this complex situation, the integration of American technology in a key contender has added a new dimension to this critical defense acquisition. The focus remains on ensuring that any submarine deal aligns with India's long-term goals of self-reliance and technological advancement.

 

[NSR]

Be careful.
But it may be a hit job article too.
Technology in S80+ must be completely scrutinized/scrubbed before signing any contract at all.

 

[PARTHAJIT JANA]

Finally someone said it. Unlike France or Germany this s80 product is supported by American submakers. It has too many American and british components. Its spanish design , but also too many countries involved.

 

[Parthasarathi DasGupta]

I just failed to understand, why can't Navy talk to NAVAL group and ask for a favorable quotation of nine Scorpene class subs, with DRDO AIP. 5 to be built by Majgaon and 4 by LNT. It will be much cost effective.

 

[Ayyadurai Namasivayam]

USA is the number one enemy of india. So we should not buy any weapons from US. We should buy weapons only from France and Israel. TOT is more important than the security of the country. We will not sign any deal including the P75I if tot is not provided. We are not much interested in German submarines also. So p75i will never be signed.

 

[PARTHAJIT JANA]

I just failed to understand, why can't Navy talk to NAVAL group and ask for a favorable quotation of nine Scorpene class subs, with DRDO AIP. 5 to be built by Majgaon and 4 by LNT. It will be much cost effective.

Here is why, drdo aip is not sea proven yet, these things take time often 2-3 or more years. Scorpene is 1990s tech.

 

[charminar_waale_ismail_bhai]

I just failed to understand, why can't Navy talk to NAVAL group and ask for a favorable quotation of nine Scorpene class subs, with DRDO AIP. 5 to be built by Majgaon and 4 by LNT. It will be much cost effective.

You know what would be even better.
Contract a professional naval builder to come up with an in-house design for a littoral submarine.

Apart from MDL, there are many private players like L&T and Godrej who have enough expertise to come up with an in-house submarine design.

That product may not be as advanced as say a Spanish S-80. But what it will do, is set a precedence in indigenous development of a non-nuclear submarine and give the local builders the confidence to invest in local build up of facilities for additional defence manufacturing. The level of complexity and advancements of our desi products will eventually increase.

Yes, this is the same approach taken by South Korea to give a fillip to its domestic defence industries.

 

[Anant]

USA is the number one enemy of india. So we should not buy any weapons from US. We should buy weapons only from France and Israel. TOT is more important than the security of the country. We will not sign any deal including the P75I if tot is not provided. We are not much interested in German submarines also. So p75i will never be signed.

So, what, according to you, is the way ahead? If the presence of American technology proves to be too much of an obstacle for the S80 Plus, then the Type 214 will go ahead. You do realise we need the submarines to keep fleet numbers up, right?

 

[Akshat]

USA is the number one enemy of india. So we should not buy any weapons from US. We should buy weapons only from France and Israel. TOT is more important than the security of the country. We will not sign any deal including the P75I if tot is not provided. We are not much interested in German submarines also. So p75i will never be signed.

Number one enemy who is giving us billions in remittances and exports annually. Plus is ready to share some of the top tier tech with us (at least from Indian perspective). Interesting.

 

[INDIAN]

If you are wary , then why killing time with Spain , only option is German submarines and French.
Just do it fast and induct in large numbers, just 4-5 submarine will not do good.
At least 10-12 should be built.

 

[Sandeep]

It was clear right from the start that the navy wanted German submarines as they are familiar with German technology, parts, components, sensors and submarine in general. With the Spanish S80 it has to many crucial foreign parts and technology which makes us vulnerable to foreign sanctions and problems.

The German submarine is advanced and has a lot of advanced technology, sensors, advanced combat suite, outer hull made from composites, reliable and efficient engine, next generation sonar technology etc. In this deal India has to get a higher amount of critical technology and to manufacture as much as we can in India with Indian content.

 

[Anant]

It's a fixed game. Germany tkms type 212 wil win

It can't, since the Type 212 hasn't been formally offered. TKMS has offered the Type 214 (a downgraded version of the Type 212) publicly.

 

[Anant]

You know what would be even better.
Contract a professional naval builder to come up with an in-house design for a littoral submarine.

Apart from MDL, there are many private players like L&T and Godrej who have enough expertise to come up with an in-house submarine design.

That product may not be as advanced as say a Spanish S-80. But what it will do, is set a precedence in indigenous development of a non-nuclear submarine and give the local builders the confidence to invest in local build up of facilities for additional defence manufacturing. The level of complexity and advancements of our desi products will eventually increase.

Yes, this is the same approach taken by South Korea to give a fillip to its domestic defence industries.

The sad reality of this is that L&T actually finished work on their SOV-400 midget submarine back in 2021-22. Of course, no interest was shown, so the project is shelved. If we were to, say, buy 4-6 of these small submarines for coastal defence and SpecOps missions, we would be in a place to ask L&T to create new designs for larger SSKs as well.

 

[Arz786]

It was clear right from the start that the navy wanted German submarines as they are familiar with German technology, parts, components, sensors and submarine in general. With the Spanish S80 it has to many crucial foreign parts and technology which makes us vulnerable to foreign sanctions and problems.

The German submarine is advanced and has a lot of advanced technology, sensors, advanced combat suite, outer hull made from composites, reliable and efficient engine, next generation sonar technology etc. In this deal India has to get a higher amount of critical technology and to manufacture as much as we can in India with Indian content.

But Germany may not transfer those technology. Their Federal Office for Economic Affairs and Export Control (BAFA or Bundesamt für Wirtschaft und Ausfuhrkontrolle) is unlikely to approve crucial technologies to be transferred to India. A few years ago, BAFA had shot down technology transfer of Ring Laser Gyros to India and sale of H&K small arms to India. Americans are more open yo transfer technologies to India.

 

[Sparkle Studio]

If we can get T.o.T for GE 414 jet engine and have no reservations about it then I don't foresee any problems regarding LM's passive sonar or ICS. Navantia S 80 with Indian weapon systems will make a potent platform.

 

[Senthil Kumar]

Number one enemy who is giving us billions in remittances and exports annually. Plus is ready to share some of the top tier tech with us (at least from Indian perspective). Interesting.

They are not giving any top tier tech.

 

[Akshat]

They are not giving any top tier tech.

They are giving what no one else is giving and what India doesn’t have. Hence I said, from India’s perspective.

 

[Pink Panther]

Be careful.
But it may be a hit job article too.
Technology in S80+ must be completely scrutinized/scrubbed before signing any contract at all.

Selecting either of these submarines have problem, we need to choose between problem with one Country (Germany) or problem from three Countries,(France, Spain and US) wonder why didn’t we have stringent requirements for TOT in Scorpene or Rafale, why we got 0 (Zero) TOT on those in-spite of spending $23Bln.

 

[beencensured]

Number one enemy who is giving us billions in remittances and exports annually. Plus is ready to share some of the top tier tech with us (at least from Indian perspective). Interesting.

The Brain drain contributes to trillions of dollars of loss to economy. Just Sundar and Satya to google and Microsoft it over trillions of dollars of worth and such capable people if worked for India perhaps India would had a 20 trillion dollar economy. .

 

[Pink Panther]

I just failed to understand, why can't Navy talk to NAVAL group and ask for a favorable quotation of nine Scorpene class subs, with DRDO AIP. 5 to be built by Majgaon and 4 by LNT. It will be much cost effective.

Scorpene is a small Submarine and also old tech, we wanted larger displacement that has modern tech to carry more missile and torpedoes.