GE to Retain Control Over F-414 Engine's Single Crystal Blade Casting and FADEC Software in ToT Agreement with India

GE Aerospace and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) are nearing finalization of a landmark deal for the transfer of technology (ToT) for the F-414 engine, set to be concluded later this year. This agreement will grant HAL access to nearly 80% of the ToT, facilitating local production of the engine in Bangalore.

GE Aerospace has emphasized that this ToT package surpasses any previous agreement for the F-414 engine. Notably, South Korea, utilizing the same engine for its KF-21 fighter jet, only received 59% ToT.

While the specific details of the withheld 20% remain undisclosed, it's confirmed that GE will retain the casting process for single crystal (SX) blades and the software for the Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) system. However, HAL will acquire the technology for coating and machining these blades.

The remaining 20% of the technology will be supplied directly by GE to HAL, safeguarding their intellectual property rights. This approach balances GE's control over critical components with HAL's capability to manufacture and maintain the engine domestically.

Although India has developed indigenous capabilities for single crystal blade casting through the Kaveri engine program, the withholding of this tech isn't seen as a major obstacle. Indian companies may utilize domestically developed tech to replace the withheld components shortly, potentially achieving 100% local manufacturing of the engine.

The finalization of this deal is a significant step forward for India's defense industry. Local manufacture of the F-414 engine will reduce India's reliance on foreign suppliers, create new opportunities for domestic industries and jobs, and enhance India's capabilities in advanced engine technology, positioning the country as a major player in the global aerospace sector.

 

[PKPRS]

Getting 80% TOT is a big deal, if it is really true, I am a bit skeptic about this, will only believe if it really happens and when ever if it does.

 

[NSR]

20% of GE F-414INS6 belongs to HOT CORE Section.
USA and its private companies spent billions perfecting this engine over decades so they are its crown jewels.
They will not transfer without political approval and compensations to GE company.

Do not blame anyone for our fighter engine fiasco at all, as we are solely responsible for it with lack of any foresight, planning, investing heavily in R&D, developing high temperature alloys, etc
India can't advance further without these investments.

Not even our supposed friends France and Russia or old USSR did not provide us with any engine tech at all.
France took $45 to 60 millions per each Mirage-2000 upgrade and did not even provide us with any new engine or AESA radars.

So India will not progress unless it starts doing things by itself.
India has tremendous talent and cand build a fighter engine, for sure.

 

[Rinku Pandey]

Wonderful. In few years Bharat will be aero engine powerhouse. With this TOT, kaveri 2.0,3.0 world beater engines can be produced. After 70 years our fighter plane industry is set to take off. Best of Luck.

 

[Aravind Raveendran]

Well, inorder to get any benifits we need them to finalize and start making them , Time is of essence so hurry up.

 

[sanket]

Getting 80% TOT is a big deal, if it is really true, I am a bit skeptic about this, will only believe if it really happens and when ever if it does.

Actually it is 40% ToT & not 80% Tech is based on two pillars know how & know why GE is giving only one know how

 

[op gupta]

Well, inorder to get any benifits we need them to finalize and start making them , Time is of essence so hurry up.

No time is not essence "necessarily" in every defence project particularly in engine development, India should feel lucky for any defence deal with america so have patience guys one year late is nothing for engine supply.

 

[Bhishma]

80% TOT is the same as 0% TOT. Why ? Because we already have that capability in house for the 80%. If anything I'd say we have 95% of the capability. We have acquired that learning from the Kaveri program. We need 100% TOT, else its just eyewash.

 

[Bhishma]

Getting 80% TOT is a big deal

No, its not. We are already capable of producing a functional engine. Our only problem with Kaveri is that its not giving us the thrust we want. Now if you draw a venn diagram, A being Kaveri program, B being the 80% TOT, I'm pretty sure B would be completely contained inside A. ie its a scam and eyewash being pulled on us.

 

[Bhishma]

Wonderful. In few years Bharat will be aero engine powerhouse. With this TOT, kaveri 2.0,3.0 world beater engines can be produced. After 70 years our fighter plane industry is set to take off. Best of Luck.

they would strategically give tech thats already covered in 1.0. They are not fool, they will not let 2.0/3.0 happen.

 

[Anant]

No, its not. We are already capable of producing a functional engine. Our only problem with Kaveri is that its not giving us the thrust we want. Now if you draw a venn diagram, A being Kaveri program, B being the 80% TOT, I'm pretty sure B would be completely contained inside A. ie its a scam and eyewash being pulled on us.

That’s wrong. We are yet not able to make any operational engine and Kaveri program has absolutely failed. The Ben diagram will at best have 10-20% commonality.

 

[Akshat]

Well, inorder to get any benifits we need them to finalize and start making them , Time is of essence so hurry up.

What’s the point of making them bro? Mk2 is still over a decade away from production. So making engines is pointless.

 

[Akshat]

80% TOT is the same as 0% TOT. Why ? Because we already have that capability in house for the 80%. If anything I'd say we have 95% of the capability. We have acquired that learning from the Kaveri program. We need 100% TOT, else its just eyewash.

We don’t have even 50% capability. Kaveri was thrown out of LCA. After extensive audits, Safran too said that the whole hot core has to be replaced if Kaveri is to work. Even Dry Kaveri has not passed any trials. So till the point GTRE is involved with the project, we have no option but to accept foreign help.

 

[DNA57]

Considering all external and internal factors why should we not accept full TOT and local manufacture of SU-75 ? Just give me a solid reason.

 

[Zoro]

That’s wrong. We are yet not able to make any operational engine and Kaveri program has absolutely failed. The Ben diagram will at best have 10-20% commonality.

We have made Kaveri it's not operational because it can't produce enough thrust to power the tejas so you can say we have partially succeeded in making a jet engine, if we get 80% ToT from GE F414 which is in the similar category of engine as Kaveri it might solve those problems and when the life of F404 engines and F414 engine ends they could be replaced by Kaveri. Also we decided to make a world class jet engine at the time when we didn't had any infrastructure or test facility nor any experience in making engines. In the process of making it we created the environment and an experienced set of engineers.There were many problems in Kaveri in the start most of which were solved from being overweight to vibration problems now the only problem is insufficient thrust and we did all that without any foreign help and at the fraction of cost other countries used to make engine of same category.Even safran with experience of 50 years took 13-15 years master the M88 engine for rafale.

 

[Aravind Raveendran]

No time is not essence "necessarily" in every defence project particularly in engine development, India should feel lucky for any defence deal with america so have patience guys one year late is nothing for engine supply.

We must also consider that uncle Sam is not to be trusted any deal with them could be stopped according to their whims , so while dealing with such opportunistic people we must get the deal done and dusted asap.

 

[Aravind Raveendran]

What’s the point of making them bro? Mk2 is still over a decade away from production. So making engines is pointless.

Bhai , uncle Sam is unpredictable and can withhold these engines more importantly the TOT at any time , so it's our priority to get this deal done .

 

[Akshat]

Bhai , uncle Sam is unpredictable and can withhold these engines more importantly the TOT at any time , so it's our priority to get this deal done .

Agreed. But my point is, what will we even do with the engines if HAL can’t make the planes?

 

[Dredd]

No, its not. We are already capable of producing a functional engine. Our only problem with Kaveri is that its not giving us the thrust we want. Now if you draw a venn diagram, A being Kaveri program, B being the 80% TOT, I'm pretty sure B would be completely contained inside A. ie its a scam and eyewash being pulled on us.

that seems like a very small problem with Kaveri, i am sure that GTRE will solve it in few days or weeks.

 

[Superpower Bharat]

That’s wrong. We are yet not able to make any operational engine and Kaveri program has absolutely failed. The Ben diagram will at best have 10-20% commonality.

Army didn't use it doesn't means that program is a failure... If it is any other country then they will launch a program around this engine and make it a success.... But it is our air force who rejected it t... This is the saddest part...