IAF Seeks Direct Collaboration with GE for F-404 Engine Maintenance, Bypassing HAL

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is exploring a new maintenance strategy for the F-404 engines that propel its Tejas Mk1A fighter jets. This approach involves bypassing HAL and directly engaging with GE Aerospace, the manufacturer of the F-404 engines. This move mirrors the IAF's existing model for its Pilatus PC-7 Mk.II trainer fleet, where they work directly with Pratt & Whitney, the engine manufacturer.

By working directly with GE Aerospace, the IAF aims to enhance the efficiency of its spare parts and supply chain process, eliminating unnecessary intermediaries. This strategic shift would also allow HAL to concentrate on maintaining other crucial supply chains for the Tejas aircraft.

GE Aerospace, with a substantial presence in India for over four decades, boasts a diverse industrial portfolio that includes engines, avionics, services, and local sourcing. This direct collaboration could potentially lead to GE appointing a new Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul (MRO) partner within India.

The IAF has already placed orders for 83 Tejas Mk1A jets and intends to procure an additional 97. These fighters are powered by F-404 engines developed by GE. HAL currently procures these engines directly from GE, with no local assembly involved or planned.

 

[sanket]

it was Direct Engine Engagement From earlier & also sourcing components for GE-404-IN20 Variant for Tejas MK1A, it was never Link with HAL when & where it was decided to co-produce with Indian partner

GE-414 was decided to produce under Licnese 80% ToT .Article is Misleading .Agreement was signed three years ago for supply of 99 GE-404-1N20 Engine & not for producing components in India Under ToT.

 

[sanket]

108 Tejas MK2 ,100 TEDBF & 40 AMCA are planned Total 248 Fighter Jets ,100 TEDBF & 40 AMCA are Twin Engine Initial req is 280 Engines & plus 108 Engine for Tejas MK2 Total 388 are required in initial phase why not IAF bypass ...........???? which no is bigger 83 Tejas MK1A or 388 & work directly with GE.scrap 80% ToT Co-manufacturing GE-414 Engine & Engage directly from GE.

GE have delivered all 99 GE404-1N20 Engine one year before the Time line. thanks in advance & HAL failed to integrtae those Engines in Teja MK1A bcoz Airframes was Not ready.Congrates to US for sending all this Engines .

 

[NSR]

Say a BIG NOOOOO to HAL wimps....

The better idea is to get a license to produce GE F-404IN20 in India by GTRE under same license as GE F-414 with 80% TOT so GTRE will not only manufactures it in India and also maintains it.

India should roll all of fighter and helicopter engines under GTRE with a brand new near private company with some public participation so they can hire people on merit instead of quotas and practice retention of competent.

Get the license and start making and maintaining in India.

 

[Devasahayam]

Ok, now we changed it from delaying due to HAL saying that "there are supply chain issues with GE" to dealing directly with the company which has supply chain issues....

How about ask IAI to help us shoehorn other engines to fit instead, as this will likely be much faster, and also hand over GTRE to IAI supervision to ensure Kaveri is developed right and at tortoise (rather than doornail) speed?

 

[beencensured]

108 Tejas MK2 ,100 TEDBF & 40 AMCA are planned Total 248 Fighter Jets ,100 TEDBF & 40 AMCA are Twin Engine Initial req is 280 Engines & plus 108 Engine for Tejas MK2 Total 388 are required in initial phase why not IAF bypass ...........???? which no is bigger 83 Tejas MK1A or 388 & work directly with GE.scrap 80% ToT Co-manufacturing GE-414 Engine & Engage directly from GE.

GE have delivered all 99 GE404-1N20 Engine one year before the Time line. thanks in advance & HAL failed to integrtae those Engines in Teja MK1A bcoz Airframes was Not ready.Congrates to US for sending all this Engines .

Why allow American all over the place, because the FADEC failed of the engine does not implicate HAL. Full authority digital engine control failure to warn about impending oil pump failure implicates GE as it should have gave warning and also implicates possible trojans in digital engines. Further its failure before finalization of Argentina deal shows some coincidence that implies that engine might have trojans. Do not open the door to USA spying on India as they are spy master. HAve control of our own is best. It is best to find ways to make Kaveri to replace GE engine. Further with this supply problem delay they supplied South Korea over India.

 

[sanket]

Why allow American all over the place, because the FADEC failed of the engine does not implicate HAL. Full authority digital engine control failure to warn about impending oil pump failure implicates GE as it should have gave warning and also implicates possible trojans in digital engines. Further its failure before finalization of Argentina deal shows some coincidence that implies that engine might have trojans. Do not open the door to USA spying on India as they are spy master. HAve control of our own is best. It is best to find ways to make Kaveri to replace GE engine. Further with this supply problem delay they supplied South Korea over India.

Fine Tuning of kaveri derivative with desired Thrust of 85 kN to 90 kN & Reduction in weight. after all IAF will have over all 220 Tejas MK1A which will require 3.5 engines in life span of Fighter jet its Huge potential (atleast 660 Engines) Foreign Exchange too can b saved plus Employment is generated.

 

[Instant Karma]

HAL is the manufacturing company of Tejas. So naturally HAL has given orders for GE engines. HAL is the primary user and not the middleman as written in the article. This article seems to be prompted by some middleman who wants to get the business of procuring engine parts from GE and supply them to HAL and IAF.

 

[wallisk]

That would be a separate additional expenses contract as HAL will solely be the single and only contractor for GE engines in India...

 

[Akshat]

it was Direct Engine Engagement From earlier & also sourcing components for GE-404-IN20 Variant for Tejas MK1A, it was never Link with HAL when & where it was decided to co-produce with Indian partner

GE-414 was decided to produce under Licnese 80% ToT .Article is Misleading .Agreement was signed three years ago for supply of 99 GE-404-1N20 Engine & not for producing components in India Under ToT.

You really need to improve your reading skills first. They are talking about maintenance, not manufacturing.

 

[Akshat]

Why allow American all over the place, because the FADEC failed of the engine does not implicate HAL. Full authority digital engine control failure to warn about impending oil pump failure implicates GE as it should have gave warning and also implicates possible trojans in digital engines. Further its failure before finalization of Argentina deal shows some coincidence that implies that engine might have trojans. Do not open the door to USA spying on India as they are spy master. HAve control of our own is best. It is best to find ways to make Kaveri to replace GE engine. Further with this supply problem delay they supplied South Korea over India.

That’s not the official report. DPSUs spread these false misleading articles to divert attention.

As for Kaveri, your socialistic DPSUs have messed it up and it just doesn’t work at all.

 

[Akshat]

HAL is the manufacturing company of Tejas. So naturally HAL has given orders for GE engines. HAL is the primary user and not the middleman as written in the article. This article seems to be prompted by some middleman who wants to get the business of procuring engine parts from GE and supply them to HAL and IAF.

Indeed, HAL is the manufacturing company of Tejas and that’s the biggest bad luck of our country. Apart from DRDO and OFB’s existence, of course.

 

[sanket]

You really need to improve your reading skills first. They are talking about maintenance, not manufacturing.

spare parts & supply chain read it, yesterday i commented IAF wanted GE-404-IN20 to b supplied by GE directly from US and components too & Local manufacturing of only 414 Engine in India with 80% ToT

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Why allow American all over the place, because the FADEC failed of the engine does not implicate HAL. Full authority digital engine control failure to warn about impending oil pump failure implicates GE as it should have gave warning and also implicates possible trojans in digital engines. Further its failure before finalization of Argentina deal shows some coincidence that implies that engine might have trojans. Do not open the door to USA spying on India as they are spy master. HAve control of our own is best. It is best to find ways to make Kaveri to replace GE engine. Further with this supply problem delay they supplied South Korea over India.

It seems you dont know anything about how liabilities work. Say if u buy a car whose steering assembly came from a separate sub contractor than the manufacturer and suddenly locked up and resulted in an accident. Now can the manufacturer claim that hey I am just integrating them and I am not the manufacturer of the assembly? Nope he cant he is liable to pay compensation in case of catastrophic failure that resulted in an accident. As he bears the responsibility of tuning and associated engineering to make the sub-assemblies work in a car.

 

[beencensured]

That’s not the official report. DPSUs spread these false misleading articles to divert attention.

As for Kaveri, your socialistic DPSUs have messed it up and it just doesn’t work at all.

What happened to Godrej who is building engine?

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Go for MRO which can do complete overhaul of GE engines. Float a division with retired Aginveers to maintain time discipline.

 

[Sandeep]

The air force does not manufacture any of the engines or major parts or components in India at all. These engines are made in the USA and India might be supplying GE with some parts and components but the main engine is only made in the USA. So it doesn’t matter whether the air force or HAL are in charge of buying it or maintaining the engine as they can’t do anything to resolve any of GE supply chain or manufacturing issues.

India is going to have at least 200 Tejas MK1A jets which requires 200 engines. The jets will need about 3 or 4 engines throughout a 30 year standard lifespan but most likely more when we carry out upgrades to extend its life. So India will need to buy at least 600 or 800 engines if we upgrade the jet.

So India needs to negotiate a new deal and have the engines manufactured in India. We should try and negotiate a similar deal along the lines of the F414 deal we made for the Tejas MK2 jet. We should receive at least 80% or preferably more of the technology and allowed to manufacture the same amount using indigenous content. This will allow us to learn more about the technology, metal composition, equipment and machinery needed, taught how to make it, engineering needed and scientific knowledge and expertise.

 

[Akshat]

What happened to Godrej who is building engine?

They have been given to build engines based on the specs and designs from GTRE. Similar prototypes were constructed decades back as well and nothing came out of it. When the designer itself knows nothing, what will manufacturer do?

 

[Akshat]

spare parts & supply chain read it, yesterday i commented IAF wanted GE-404-IN20 to b supplied by GE directly from US and components too & Local manufacturing of only 414 Engine in India with 80% ToT

Spare part and supply chain doesn’t mean just manufacturing. The supply chain is global. Spare parts sourced from them are used to maintain the engine. HAL apparently can’t do even that properly.

 

[Man-ju]

IAF has to intervene. GOI better negotiate in bringing in private defence aircraft manufacturer to open their companies in India on their own without any role of PSU's like HAL. Else, we might end up losing wara while HAL keeps causing delays.

 

[beencensured]

It seems you dont know anything about how liabilities work. Say if u buy a car whose steering assembly came from a separate sub contractor than the manufacturer and suddenly locked up and resulted in an accident. Now can the manufacturer claim that hey I am just integrating them and I am not the manufacturer of the assembly? Nope he cant he is liable to pay compensation in case of catastrophic failure that resulted in an accident. As he bears the responsibility of tuning and associated engineering to make the sub-assemblies work in a car.

Yes, owner of car would hold manufacturer liable, but manufacturer will always hold liable the manufacturer defective component. Engines are one of main components of plane that are manufactured almost always by another party. Sometime/usually, the buyer makes a separate deal for engines. Yes, some level is needed OEM component support, but there is no specific reason for them to be there for every little thing. Some expertise in house is necessary, depending so much is not healthy. Certainly, they need to give reason why engine failed and so a enquiry needs to be done as it could effect other planes. In house inquiry is also necessary to verify reason.

 

[beencensured]

They have been given to build engines based on the specs and designs from GTRE. Similar prototypes were constructed decades back as well and nothing came out of it. When the designer itself knows nothing, what will manufacturer do?

So, according to you Godrej made fake kaveri engines.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Yes, owner of car would hold manufacturer liable, but manufacturer will always hold liable the manufacturer defective component. Engines are one of main components of plane that are manufactured almost always by another party. Sometime/usually, the buyer makes a separate deal for engines. Yes, some level is needed OEM component support, but there is no specific reason for them to be there for every little thing. Some expertise in house is necessary, depending so much is not healthy. Certainly, they need to give reason why engine failed and so a enquiry needs to be done as it could effect other planes. In house inquiry is also necessary to verify reason.

Does not matter from perspective of customer. For customer the manufacturer pays up. Now if the presence of fault in specific component can be established on a large scale across a large sample size. Then and only then can the manufacturer or lead integrator sue the specific component supplier. Else it will invariably remain the responsibility of lead integrator/ manufacturer with which the customer deals with.

 

[Steel Mathi]

Events like this will happen until we the result of the stryker vehicle and Other US Projects...

Even if they provide f414 80% ToT is doubtful
or there will be huge delay...

we may try to make a plane engine with Russians... tie up with Russians will help build complete engine even if delay, money flow increases... Ex Bromos,Vikaramatiya AC, Akash Missile defense ...

Americans will no longer serve their own selfish as the primary objective

 

[Akshat]

So, according to you Godrej made fake kaveri engines.

They made what GTRE gave them.