Israel AeroSpace Proposes LRSAM Co-Development, Should India Partner Again After Barak-8 Experience

The recent AeroSpace Services India (ASI) event in New Delhi saw a renewed push for collaboration between India and Israel on a next-generation air defence system.

Boaz Levy, President and CEO of Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), emphasized the potential for building upon the successful development of the Medium-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (MRSAM) system.

Successful Precedent: The MRSAM​

The MRSAM, currently in service across the Indian Armed Forces, offers a range of 70-90 kilometers and is designed to counter a multitude of aerial threats.

This system serves as a testament to the successful history of defense technology collaboration between India and Israel.

Ambitious Vision: A Long-Range System​

Levy's suggestion hints at a more ambitious project centered around a Long-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (LRSAM). Such a system would significantly extend India's air defense reach, bolstering its capabilities against potential adversaries.

Collaborative Complexities​

The proposal, however, carries a degree of complexity. Despite India's contribution of dual-pulse motor technology during the MRSAM's joint development, Israel later created the export-oriented Barak-8 variant.

This version incorporated Israeli technology in place of the Indian motor and featured design alterations. This development raised concerns about potential future supply issues and India's long-term reliance on systems where Israel retains a high degree of control.

India's Indigenous Efforts​

India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is actively pursuing its own LRSAM program.

This indigenous initiative aligns with the nation's broader push for self-sufficiency in defense technologies and is intended to complement the advanced S-400 air defense systems acquired from Russia.

Questions of Collaboration and Self-Reliance​

The Israeli proposal underscores a key question for India: How much emphasis should be placed on collaborative defense development with foreign partners versus focusing on bolstering its indigenous capabilities?

While collaborations offer potential technological gains and resource sharing, India's past experience highlights the importance of ensuring long-term control and avoiding undue reliance on external supply chains.

 

[sanket]

Co-development what about Barak system which was developed with Indian Money . Does India have Selling Rights world over.

 

[Anant]

Co-development what about Barak system which was developed with Indian Money . Does India have Selling Rights world over.

In theory, we should be able to sell the system? Armenia has already been in discussions for the purchase of the MR-SAM, and these don't seem to have involved Israel atleast until now.

 

[NSR]

India funded Israel during DRDO Director Chander or someone like him saying joint project with no technology transfer or IP rights, and even now Israel will hoodwink India into same kind of process.
Israel really cheated or to say bluntly backstabbed on TOT/IP of seeker and guidance sections.
They developed and fielded almost 5 years before we did and also India is paying through their nose for front sections of seeker and guidance systems.
We can't export it like our Brahmos missile and earn money.

France does it in a sophisticated way by promising bogus offsets and fighter engine technology, etc

Just use the money and develop your own air and missile defenses and hold on to your own technology and IPs like crown jewels.

Enough aggravation already.

 

[Bharat007]

India funded Israel during DRDO Director Chander or someone like him saying joint project with no technology transfer or IP rights, and even now Israel will hoodwink India into same kind of process.
Israel really cheated or to say bluntly backstabbed on TOT/IP of seeker and guidance sections.
They developed and fielded almost 5 years before we did and also India is paying through their nose for front sections of seeker and guidance systems.
We can't export it like our Brahmos missile and earn money.

France does it in a sophisticated way by promising bogus offsets and fighter engine technology, etc

Just use the money and develop your own air and missile defenses and hold on to your own technology and IPs like crown jewels.

Enough aggravation already.

It's a business, bro. India needs to shore up its negotiating skills while dealing with Israel. Business is a game where each party will try to outsmart for better leverage.

 

[Ashutosh]

We invite IAI to invest in Project Kusha , Barak 8 ki bakchodi ab tak sehan nhi hoti.

 

[beencensured]

We invite IAI to invest in Project Kusha , Barak 8 ki bakchodi ab tak sehan nhi hoti.

No never as they will sale to America or chine, or middle east our secrets.

 

[beencensured]

Co-development what about Barak system which was developed with Indian Money . Does India have Selling Rights world over.

India got nothing out of deal though 70% technology was ours.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

In theory, we should be able to sell the system? Armenia has already been in discussions for the purchase of the MR-SAM, and these don't seem to have involved Israel atleast until now.

If israel can sell without our approval then we should as well.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

India got nothing out of deal though 70% technology was ours.

It depends on what was the aim of the partnership. If aim was to get exports, then we didmt get anything. If aim was to leverage Israel's expertise where we were lacking, to get a better system than the russian ones were using or akash, then we succeeded.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

I dont think anybody is stopping us from exporting MRSAM. We have to make effort in that regard. Israel replacing indian parts of the missile with their own, and combined with their own radar, list of established customers and marketing skills, makes them way ahead of us in terms of export. It is business, if India wants to eat the cake, it has to fight for it for the limited contracts.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Seems we are still dependent on Israel for components. Every MRSAM order results in good business for Israeli companies.

 

[Anant]

If israel can sell without our approval then we should as well.

Doesn't work that way. If Israel replaces our components with theirs, they can legally sell it without our approval, though it is a very bad thing to do from an ethical and business relations perspective. If our MR-SAMs still have Israeli components, that means an export there may require Israeli consent.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Doesn't work that way. If Israel replaces our components with theirs, they can legally sell it without our approval, though it is a very bad thing to do from an ethical and business relations perspective. If our MR-SAMs still have Israeli components, that means an export there may require Israeli consent.

True. It may be an issue if India tries to sell to armenia, since israel is major weapons supplier to azerbaijan. But I think, Israel wont say no to India. India is biggest customer of Israel when it comes to defence tech.

 

[kumar]

We should codevelop carbine with Isreal, so that IA buys it.

 

[NSR]

It's a business, bro. India needs to shore up its negotiating skills while dealing with Israel. Business is a game where each party will try to outsmart for better leverage.

No, what Israel did was an egregious act by all standards.

 

[Amit]

I think we have the necessary technology to develop it ourselves..if needed we can take consultancy to speed things up thats it...hope DRDO delivers this.

 

[ryan]

India got nothing out of deal though 70% technology was ours.

India got a lot of things. % doesnt justify everything. Even if it was 30% as per your inputs, it was indeed a critical tech for India at that point of time. Many advancements have been done till now based on that tech & has been reused in multiple platforms. But now in 2024, things are way different, India has become way more capable & self reliant and unless Israel offers something groundbreaking in Long range AD tech to us, doesnt make sense to go for joint collaboration as India's own LRSAM is progressing well

 

[Sandeep]

India has come a long way in developing our own SAM and a integrated defence shield that we don't really need any countries help.

It's best that India doesn't make anymore joint deals as they usually come with the usual headache on deciding who develops what, the amount of technology ownership, any permission needed to sell the missile, who pays what, who owns what parts or technology etc.

India is already developing Project Kusha which is our own long range SAM and a defence shield similar to the Russian S400. India has already developed a integrated network of SAM like the ballistic defence shield BMD, S400, MR-SAM, Akash, Spyder, Samar MK1 and MK2, L70 and we are also developing the QRSAM and VSHORAD while continuing to improve our existing missiles and radars while eventually replacing all foreign missiles we currently use.

 

[Sudha]

Bharat should go forward independently on this without any JVs. Why give away Bharat's tech? As far as Israel developing its own MRSAM after drawing lessons from Bharat's collaboration one shouldn't take it hard for we are doing the same with brahmos.

 

[beencensured]

India got a lot of things. % doesnt justify everything. Even if it was 30% as per your inputs, it was indeed a critical tech for India at that point of time. Many advancements have been done till now based on that tech & has been reused in multiple platforms. But now in 2024, things are way different, India has become way more capable & self reliant and unless Israel offers something groundbreaking in Long range AD tech to us, doesnt make sense to go for joint collaboration as India's own LRSAM is progressing well

Wrong, In the deal Israel got the tech for dual pulse missile. India did not get sensor tech, which it has. So, stop BS.

 

[beencensured]

It depends on what was the aim of the partnership. If aim was to get exports, then we didmt get anything. If aim was to leverage Israel's expertise where we were lacking, to get a better system than the russian ones were using or akash, then we succeeded.

First the dual pulse propulsion technology was Indian and that was the most important technology. The sensors and radar India has. Israel fooled us to give them technology to shoot down Yakhont type missiles which Brahmos is classified. Further as another said India funded most of it and got nothing in return in terms of development charges. Whereas Israel had marketed to potential enemies. Further Akash is the better missile system only Barak 8 range is more,

 

[Mithu Roy]

If they are smart y be smarter by substituting Israeli parts and have your versus for sell at a lesser costs

 

[Hita Techi]

True. It may be an issue if India tries to sell to armenia, since israel is major weapons supplier to azerbaijan. But I think, Israel wont say no to India. India is biggest customer of Israel when it comes to defence tech.

Azerbaijan and Turkey are important to Israel too, both for military and civilian trade. They depend on Azeri Oil and gas for energy and Turkish consumer goods while they sell military tech to them

 

[beencensured]

Bharat should go forward independently on this without any JVs. Why give away Bharat's tech? As far as Israel developing its own MRSAM after drawing lessons from Bharat's collaboration one shouldn't take it hard for we are doing the same with brahmos.

Brahmos the Russians made good money, but in barak 8 India got safted.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Azerbaijan and Turkey are important to Israel too, both for military and civilian trade. They depend on Azeri Oil and gas for energy and Turkish consumer goods while they sell military tech to them

In future, turkey and israel relations are going severely downhill. Because turkey has been very very critical of israel in gaza war. Azerbaijan has been silent. When this war is over, I believe Israel will reevaluate its relationships, and I believe it will come much closer to India.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

First the dual pulse propulsion technology was Indian and that was the most important technology. The sensors and radar India has. Israel fooled us to give them technology to shoot down Yakhont type missiles which Brahmos is classified. Further as another said India funded most of it and got nothing in return in terms of development charges. Whereas Israel had marketed to potential enemies. Further Akash is the better missile system only Barak 8 range is more,

Can you point me to a source for the first part of what you said. I am unaware of this info and would like to read more.

 

[Pink Panther]

Co-development what about Barak system which was developed with Indian Money . Does India have Selling Rights world over.

This missile might probably a missile used in Aroow-2 or Arrow-3 systems.

 

[Pink Panther]

In future, turkey and israel relations are going severely downhill. Because turkey has been very very critical of israel in gaza war. Azerbaijan has been silent. When this war is over, I believe Israel will reevaluate its relationships, and I believe it will come much closer to India.

We have been shipping arms and ammunition’s to Israel nonstop since the war started, like Israeli’s did during Kargil war.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

We have been shipping arms and ammunition’s to Israel nonstop since the war started, like Israeli’s did during Kargil war.

Yes. I recently read a report that in a port in India portworker association had decided to boycott weapons shipments to israel. It pissed me off so much to hear that.