MoD Considers Integrating Indian Air Force into Navy's TEDBF Program to Achieve 200+ Order Size and Potential AMCA Synergy

In a strategic move aimed at optimizing defence resources and bolstering indigenous manufacturing, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) is considering integrating the Indian Air Force (IAF) into the Indian Navy's Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF) program.

This decision seeks to address the substantial funding and production requirements of the TEDBF project, which are comparable to those of the IAF's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program.

The TEDBF program, intended to replace the aging MiG-29K fleet operating from Indian Navy aircraft carriers, requires significant investment. While the Navy has identified a need for approximately 145 units, the MoD has initially approved the procurement of only 80.

To ensure the financial viability of the project and attract private sector participation, it is estimated that an order size of around 200 jets is necessary.

A larger order size would bring several benefits:

• Reduced per-unit costs: Increasing the order volume would lower the cost of each aircraft, making the program more financially attractive.
• Private sector involvement: A larger, more financially viable program would encourage private companies to invest in manufacturing and development, boosting India's domestic defence industry.
• Economies of scale: Increased production volume allows for economies of scale, further reducing costs and improving efficiency.

Integrating the IAF into the TEDBF program offers the potential for significant synergy with the AMCA program. Both aircraft are expected to share several critical components, leading to cost savings and technological harmonization:

• Common LRUs: Both the TEDBF and AMCA will utilize similar Line Replaceable Units (LRUs), simplifying maintenance and reducing logistical complexities.
• Shared avionics: The avionics suites for both jets are expected to have significant overlap, allowing for shared development costs and faster integration of new technologies.
• Common engine: Initially, both platforms will be powered by GE F-414 engines, with a planned transition to new high-powered 110kN engines developed by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) for the AMCA program. This streamlines logistics and paves the way for future upgrades.

By integrating the IAF into the TEDBF program, the MoD aims to achieve a larger order size, making the program more financially viable and attractive for private sector participation.

This strategic move not only supports indigenous manufacturing but also fosters greater synergy between the TEDBF and AMCA programs, optimizing resources and accelerating the development of critical defence technologies.

 

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[R. Singh]

AMCA-MK-I and AMCA-Navy (with rolls Royce STVL engine) should be joint program not TEDBF !

 

[sanket]

That means Aircraft carrier of 65000 Ton & Above should b build

 

[abhinav srivastava]

It will be better if the two programs are merged and we develop a common 5th gen fighter for IAF and its naval variant. Also intiate a 6th gen fighter developmemt programme and program to develop jet engines.
We will have to shun the mentality that we won't develop what we can import. Recall kargil war we had to pay exorbitant money for emergency imports.
We need not spend govt money for all R&D projects. Make your requirements, testing criteria, timelines and procurement size crystal clear. Many subsystems can be developed by academia and pvt companies.

 

[Asish Kumar]

We already have Tejas Mk1a and Tejas Mk2 as 4th-gen programs. Why go for another TEDBF (4th gen)? Just merge it with the AMCA program and make a naval AMCA, so it will benefit both the IAF and Navy.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Compare the cost of Rafales and desi jets. At 26 Rafales price we will have R&D and 50 units of TEDBF produced. Mid life upgrade costs of mirages was huge. Similarly Rafales mid life cost and maintainance cost will be way more than TEDBF's. Arms and missiles for Rafales will be mostly French and sesi weapons integration would cost us good amount of money. So even if we procure 50 units of TEDBF's our costs will recover.
More important point to consider is that we need to fast track our technology. This is a good time to plan to match with our large and mighty neighbor. We should merge AMCA and TEDBF into one project for 5th gen platform. Like China has J35 and its naval variant. USA has F35 A and its naval variant. Start planning for a 6th gen jet which can see the light in early 2040s.

 

[venkat]

We already have Tejas Mk1a and Tejas Mk2 as 4th-gen programs. Why go for another TEDBF (4th gen)? Just merge it with the AMCA program and make a naval AMCA, so it will benefit both the IAF and Navy.

TEDBF is non-stealth twin engine and 4.5 gen only while AMCA (whenever that comes) will be more stealthy and 5th gen

 

[Asish Kumar]

TEDBF is non-stealth twin engine and 4.5 gen only while AMCA (whenever that comes) will be more stealthy and 5th gen

Yes and how is it different from what I mentioned above? I have mentioned TEDBF as 4th gen ..
so navy should go for naval AMCA instead of tedbf

 

[War is good for business]

Yes and how is it different from what I mentioned above? I have mentioned TEDBF as 4th gen ..
so navy should go for naval AMCA instead of tedbf

Even HAL gave a long estimate for the time to complete a 5th gen which is way beyond the retirement of MiG-29K. Conversation of Land based aircraft to carrier borne aircraft ofter leads to the Navy having to sacrifice capabilities but the reverse is not true, a naval fighter when converted is a better air force fighter. IN this wants a dedicated naval fighter and fast.

 

[मित्र]

It will be better if the two programs are merged and we develop a common 5th gen fighter for IAF and its naval variant. Also intiate a 6th gen fighter developmemt programme and program to develop jet engines.
We will have to shun the mentality that we won't develop what we can import. Recall kargil war we had to pay exorbitant money for emergency imports.
We need not spend govt money for all R&D projects. Make your requirements, testing criteria, timelines and procurement size crystal clear. Many subsystems can be developed by academia and pvt companies.

For now 5th gen is not a viable option for Navy due to its operational and maintenance costs. Stealth coating will erode faster in sea.

 

[FIDA INDIA]

110 kn engine by GTRE will materialise in distant future. It will join later after it is successful and certified, means at least 10 years.

 

[Anant]

Yes and how is it different from what I mentioned above? I have mentioned TEDBF as 4th gen ..
so navy should go for naval AMCA instead of tedbf

The Navy has already rejected a navalised AMCA on very valid grounds. The stealth coatings on a hypothetical AMCA N wouldn't last nearly as long enough as needed at sea, and the aircraft would be too heavy for STOBAR operations.

 

[मित्र]

MRFA should be canceled, and money should be invested in faster development of engine tech, TEDBF, LCA 2, and AMCA. Additionally, we can also start a feasibility study of 6th-gen.

 

[Anant]

MRFA should be canceled, and money should be invested in faster development of engine tech, TEDBF, LCA 2, and AMCA. Additionally, we can also start a feasibility study of 6th-gen.

We can't develop a 4.5th generation jet on time, and you want to cancel / bring more delays in what options we have and start work on a 6th generation jet? Seriously?

 

[Anant]

For now 5th gen is not a viable option for Navy due to its operational and maintenance costs. Stealth coating will erode faster in sea.

Not to mention weight. AMCA is pretty heavy as it is. Navalising it would add even more weight, causing significant compromises on endurance or payload when operating from our STOBAR carriers.

 

[मित्र]

We can't develop a 4.5th generation jet on time, and you want to cancel / bring more delays in what options we have and start work on a 6th generation jet? Seriously?

Which gen is LCA Mk1A?

There's no difference between you and the "import army," my friend. We have to stride harder to achieve these goals, and the MRFA tender is a blocker. And tell me, when will we start receiving your favorite Rafale if we order in 2025? In 2032 or 2035?

4+ years it took without a backlog, now with hundreds in the backlog, it will take 7-8 years—sufficient time for us to work on indigenous options.

 

[Sunny]

IAF should focus on it's version of TEDBF, order more Tejas Mk1A and cancel Tejas Mk2. It will be more capable than Tejas mk2 and will add needed 4th gen numbers.

 

[Neal.B]

For everything, HAL has to first fly the prototype of TEDBF. Anyway, it's humiliating when the world is vouching for 6th gen, and we are still almost a decade away from our first squadron of indigenous 4.5 gen. As a wise senior officer once said, "Make, buy, borrow, or steal, we need the most advanced jets right now, not some 10-20 years later when that would be obsolete in the global market." The Air Force needs much more niche aircraft than the Navy. Joining TEDBF will cost us time and money for replacing jets like Rafale. Do we need that when we already have an MRFA program going on along with LCA Mk2 and AMCA? I don't know.

 

[Sanjay Limbani]

Also merge Tejas Mk-2 LRUs and add technologies from AMCA & TEDBF to Tejas Mk-2.

Radar, Avionic suits, LRUs, New 110 kN engine & other possible technologies should be commonly made for these 3 modern indegineous programs to maintain technological edge and reduce maintenance cost.

 

[Akash Vashisth]

MoD should push IAF for TEDBF derivative instead of MRFA. We can induct these fighters around 2032. Which will be like a couple of years behind the MFRA procurement of signed in 2025.

Also, instead of spending 20 billion dollars on MRFA, spending it for Indegenious research and technology will yield better results, will be cheaper to develop twin engine fighters and also save enough money to built a 65k ton aircraft carrier.