Russia Offers 5th-Gen Version of RD-33 Engine for India's AMCA with ToT and Promise of Superior Thrust

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In a move that could reshape India's indigenous fighter jet program, Russia has offered to supply a cutting-edge turbofan engine for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). This offer includes a crucial Transfer of Technology (ToT) element, aligning with India's ambition to bolster its domestic defence industry.

The proposed engine is an advanced derivative of the Klimov RD-33, currently powering India's MiG-29 fighters. This new iteration will incorporate fifth-generation technology from Russia's AL-41F1S engine, which drives the Su-35 fighter. Developed by Russia’s ODK Klimov, it boasts a maximum thrust of 110 kN, precisely matching the specifications set by India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

Key features of the engine include a gas generator derived from the AL-41F1S and elements from the AL-51 engine, effectively making it a compact version of the Izdeliye 177S. It promises enhanced reliability, an improved thrust-to-weight ratio, and reduced maintenance demands, crucial for a fifth-generation stealth fighter like the AMCA.

This offer presents India with a significant decision. While the Indian Air Force (IAF) and DRDO have been primarily engaging with Western engine manufacturers like Safran, Rolls-Royce, and GE, Russia's proposal adds a new dimension to the AMCA's development.

However, it's important to note that the Russian engine is still in the conceptual stage, with no prototype yet developed. In contrast, India is reportedly in advanced talks with Safran for a potential co-development agreement, with an announcement possibly coming as early as 2025.

This presents a dilemma for India. Balancing the promise of advanced technology and ToT from Russia against the more mature development programs of Western companies will be a key challenge for Indian policymakers. The final decision will have significant implications for the AMCA program and India's strategic defence partnerships.
 
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At the End Bharat get Best Deal for Engine development whether or not Russian Engine selected But it is sure western will not like Russian hand in developing Next Generation Engine for Bharat, suddenly Russian is putting enough pressure on western & Bharat Might benifits by making use of Russian offer & get best deals as well Tech from Western .
 
We should also work with russian engine manufacturer for alternate options as in future if any western countries all to put sanctions or leave the project or get delays like f404 & f414 or not allow us to sell fighter jets to any other countries then this derivative engine will help us that time
 
We should think about going simultaneously with the ruskies, though I am not sure about the level of TOT since we are not where near an engine technology even after the so called TOT for RD33 engines, but It's better to have a backup plan especially when dealing with the west.
 
Anonymus said:
We should also work with russian engine manufacturer for alternate options as in future if any western countries all to put sanctions or leave the project or get delays like f404 & f414 or not allow us to sell fighter jets to any other countries then this derivative engine will help us that time
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specially GE-404 & GE-414 Replacement US is back stabber all Indigenous Fighter jet project (Tejas MK1A Tejas MK2 TEDBF & AMCA MK1) are based on GE Engine , It will put pressure on US for Timely suply of Aero-Engine as per contract
 
We are in talk with France for joint development of 110kN thrust engine. It was at an advanced stage.
The second option could be Advanced RD33 successor engine.
 
Backup is a mich needed commodity in defense. If we had a backup fro GE404 then the delays could have been avoided. When we deal with west a backup is a must . Our govt and forces seldom cash the opportunities like what china did and see china has an engine to power every jet they make meanwhile our babus are still wasting public money on deciding a partner.
 
sanket said:
At the End Bharat get Best Deal for Engine development whether or not Russian Engine selected But it is sure western will not like Russian hand in developing Next Generation Engine for Bharat, suddenly Russian is putting enough pressure on western & Bharat Might benifits by making use of Russian offer & get best deals as well Tech from Western .
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I don't like any hand except our own... To the extent possible. If there is one constant across various ToT deals in the last many decades, no vendor will knowingly break India's dependence on them
 
Clearly, India lacks something foundational for the development of high-power fighter jet turbofan engines quickly. This means the dependence on foreign tech is real. The question then is which foreign tech?
 
Fresh Water said:
Clearly, India lacks something foundational for the development of high-power fighter jet turbofan engines quickly. This means the dependence on foreign tech is real. The question then is which foreign tech?
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India lacks the pull to retain talent within country.
Not just high-power fighter jet turbofan engines, our state owned firms have been struggling to also produce an in-house semi-cryogenic engine, texhnology of which was already transferred from Ukraine a while ago.
Moral of the story, the nation which don't respect merit, continue to stay banana republic throughout.
 
Indian military planners clearly realize that for Fighter Jet Engines, American engines are the best. This will be a huge investment for India, India should choose wisely and only go for the best.
 
sanket said:
specially GE-404 & GE-414 Replacement US is back stabber all Indigenous Fighter jet project (Tejas MK1A Tejas MK2 TEDBF & AMCA MK1) are based on GE Engine , It will put pressure on US for Timely suply of Aero-Engine as per contract
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and French doesn’t have modern 4th gen engine tech to make Rafale fly faster, how are they going to help with 5th gen engine, they just wanted to milk money.
 
Yes, we must at least now learn from our mistakes from the F404 fiasco, and the F414 local production with 80% ToT will be no different.

It's only the Russians who have always been there for us; they and the Israelis are our friends, our allies.

The GE engine F404 project was delayed for sure to ensure MRFA becomes a critical necessity, and a western, mostly American, jet is chosen for it.

And so it is obvious that to prevent Tejas Mk2, TEDBF, and AMCA from being held ransom, we must have two engine options if possible as a backup/alternative for the F404/F414.

The new 110kn engine is destined for extended delays, if not doomed for failure already, so the next generation of AL31F or RD-33 should be a logical option, or even the M-88 could be an alternative.

But the Europeans can't be trusted either, as we have seen with the Meteor MBDA integration. It was refused for Tejas Mk1A, Mk2, Su-30MKI, and even TEDBF and AMCA, despite an Indian AESA radar instead of the Israeli or Russian Elta radars.

We now know whom we can trust and consider as our allies and partners, and others who are merely vendors/OEMs with an intent to sell and no offsets, ToT, or local manufacturing.

We cannot make fools of ourselves every time we buy weapons, and contractual milestones and offset clauses are not honored, and ToT is not done.

The delays or failures to meet milestones or meet offset compliance are a ploy, a trick rather than a real problem in each case that we have seen.

With the Scorpene submarines, Rafale jets, GE 404 engines, we will surely see it repeated in the F414 engine deal, MQ-9 Reaper UCAV, and if we decide on MRFA, the local manufacturing and ToT will be compromised and diluted.

The West can never be trusted; they serve only themselves and safeguard only their interests. They are not partners but weapons sellers.

We are correct when we say that the world's problems are not theirs, but they think their problems are the world's problems!

And this has been proven every time and will never change. They didn't care about humanity, human rights, freedom, democracy, or free speech, but just money. It is always strictly business.

Russia has always supported us, be it nuclear technology and nuclear submarine reactors, aircraft carriers like Vikramaditya, space technology - cryogenic engines, missiles like BrahMos, air defense systems like S-400, armored vehicles, tanks - T-90, warships like Talwar-class frigates, fighter jets like the Su-30MKI, Mig-29 aircraft, and they are the only ones offering us nuclear attack submarines like Chakra - Akula 2 class submarines on lease and 5th-gen Su-57, Su-75 jets, missiles, and aircraft engines like AL-31F, RD-33.
 
Unless Russia is going to give 100% of the technology and manufacture it indigenously in India then it’s unlikely that we will choose any Russian engines for any of our fighter jet.
 
Anyways, it's a sure thing that India WILL NOT indigenously develop Kaveri.

So at least get down from the shoulders of the US and hop on to that od France and Russia and ride on them alternatively.
 
Getting an RD-33 with techs of AL-41FS and AL-51 is quite a good offer. This would be a good alternative or backup plan if the West might change its heart, especially the US because of BRICS PAY.
 
Yes to Russian engines, but only via TOT for Super Sukhoi and MiG-29 upgrades, but a big no for Tejas, AMCA, and TEDBF.

We must keep investing in Kaveri 2s while quickly embarking on our own 120-130 kN high-thrust engine with a partner.

In the entire defense ecosystem, the big gap for Bharat is fighter engine technology; for the rest, we are already there or getting there.

GE414 80% TOT will help, but Kaveri 2s and a high-thrust engine, if in place by 2035, will make us a military superpower who is mostly "atmanirbhar." It is okay to be a little behind, more expensive, but fundamentally "atmanirbhar."

We will get there before 2050 - I can see it, feel it, and pray for it.
 
desigandu said:
Yes to Russian engines, but only via TOT for Super Sukhoi and MiG-29 upgrades, but a big no for Tejas, AMCA, and TEDBF.

We must keep investing in Kaveri 2s while quickly embarking on our own 120-130 kN high-thrust engine with a partner.

In the entire defense ecosystem, the big gap for Bharat is fighter engine technology; for the rest, we are already there or getting there.

GE414 80% TOT will help, but Kaveri 2s and a high-thrust engine, if in place by 2035, will make us a military superpower who is mostly "atmanirbhar." It is okay to be a little behind, more expensive, but fundamentally "atmanirbhar."

We will get there before 2050 - I can see it, feel it, and pray for it.
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Japanese people are known for their craftsmanship, but in my opinion, India's craftsmanship far exceeds Japan's: it took more than 20 years to develop aircraft carriers. Developed tanks for over 30 years. Developed fighter jets for 40 years.
There is no doubt that Indians will develop their fifth generation fighter jets in the same way, taking 50 years to develop them.
 
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