IAF Not Interested in Land-Based Variant of TEDBF, Focusing on AMCA and Tejas MkII

The Indian Navy's vision for a new carrier-borne fighter jet, the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF), seems to be encountering rough seas from the Indian Air Force (IAF). The IAF has reportedly shown little interest in the Navy's proposal for a land-based variant of the TEDBF, named the Omni-Role Combat Aircraft (ORCA).

Why the IAF Isn't on Board with ORCA​

According to a senior IAF official, developing the ORCA would be redundant. The IAF is already heavily invested in the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), a domestically manufactured 5th-generation fighter jet in the same weight class (around 25 tons) as the ORCA. The AMCA boasts features like stealth technology and advanced avionics, putting it at the forefront of modern fighter jet design.

The IAF has a clear roadmap for its fighter jet fleet. This includes inducting the lighter Tejas MkII fighters (around 17.5 tons) – 200 units are planned – followed by the more advanced AMCA with an estimated procurement of 200 units post-2033. Additionally, they're looking to acquire 97 Tejas Mk1A fighters, bringing their total Tejas fleet to a substantial 220.

When questioned about the possibility of ORCA replacing the Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) program (likely to result in the selection of the Rafale jets), IAF officials highlighted their existing investment in infrastructure and pilot training for the 36 Rafales already in service. They see the ORCA as offering no significant technological leap over the Tejas MkII or AMCA, making it an unnecessary expense.

Navy Sails On with TEDBF​

Despite the IAF's disinterest, the TEDBF program remains a priority for the Navy. The 26-ton TEDBF is specifically designed for operation from India's aircraft carriers, and it's intended to replace their ageing MiG-29K fleet.

Looking Ahead: Collaboration or Separate Paths?​

The IAF's focus on the AMCA and Tejas MkII programs signifies a strategic shift towards self-reliance in 5th-generation fighter jet technology. The Navy's TEDBF program, however, remains crucial for maintaining their carrier-based airpower. Whether the future holds collaboration between the IAF and Navy on a joint carrier-borne fighter jet project remains to be seen.

 

[Pink Panther]

Instead expecting IAF to participate in ORCA , IN should rethink about TEDBF & Should think about developing Naval version of AMCA. It will save Time & Money.

Navy ruled out the picture of Naval AMCA variant without even testing the prototype.

 

[Pink Panther]

And it is not yet being inducted but F18s are being ordered even now. The biggest problem for stealth fighters is hardening of the underbelly which takes a serious toll on stealth. Also, the aerodynamics of stealth planes is bad for STOBAR takeoff

This is why they also use F35B a STOVL version, but this variant is not as useful as F35C naval variant which does a great job in Catapult based Carriers, Countries with flat deck ships like Japan, UK and SK use F35B STOVL variant to some degree of success.

They use F18's more in operations than F35 from the carriers, in the Middle east all the bombings are done by F18's

 

[Pink Panther]

Nopes, it never was. Aap batao.

if I find a posting here again I will post it to your name.

 

[Akshat]

if I find a posting here again I will post it to your name.

So you have no idea huh? Like always, just spreading lies against the favorite and cheapest plane of our military.

 

[Ashutosh]

Went to the link. Apart from the headline, nothing else comes. Here is the official report from Dassault itself.

Order intakes, deliveries and backlog in number of new aircraft as of December 31, 2023 - Press kits

Order intakes, deliveries and backlog in number of new aircraft as of December 31, 2023 (unaudited figures) © Dassault Aviation

www.dassault-aviation.com

So what I am talking about is very much the current situation. We will get the first jets within 36 months.

Ur report itself shows 295 jets backlog ..... Dassault Falcon + Rafales.

And as already said they can't deliver anything before a decade to new.....45 soon to add to Rafales

 

[Akshat]

Fantastic idea, indeed if we cancel super expensive MRFA, with $20Bln we can do lot mire to GOI’s Aerospace eco system.

Bhai forget the 20 billion. HAL is getting massive orders and ADA is getting massive funds. Whatever they are asking for. Where are those planes? It’s not like only those 20 billion dollars will work.

 

[Akshat]

Ur report itself shows 295 jets backlog ..... Dassault Falcon + Rafales.

And as already said they can't deliver anything before a decade to new.....45 soon to add to Rafales

Are we ordering Falcons as well for our Air Force?

 

[Akshat]

Yes 306+ and counting, we can’t wait for 10-15 Years, Rafale is jam packed, what is the point of getting a 4th gen Rafale in 2035, we will be having 300+ plus Tejas at that time, IAF is thinking in the right way,after 2035 we should focus on 5th/6th gen aircraft and drones only, 4th gen jets are already half obsolete at that time, especially spending a fortune for a 4 th gen tech at that time is a burden for us on AMCA, best option would be cheaper Tejas MK2 at 1/6th the cost.

Given HAL’s speed, we will still not have even 100 Tejas 😂😂😂

 

[Akshat]

Saudi might order 80, Turkey is also in talks and they might order 80 as well, so the backlog will soon be 466.

This only proves how great a fighter it is and we must order it in huge numbers.

 

[Anant]

But by the time of their actual induction arrives that is by late 2030s,there will be no more point in purchasing any 4.5th Gen jets.I am simply saying by that point,IN should just concentrate on acquiring real 5th gen birds instead of continuing to buy 4th gen ones.

I share your frustration, but let me put it this way:

A fifth generation naval fighter today requires one of two things to happen: A clean-shret design with improved stealth coatings, or the conversion of Vikrant (and the IAC-II design) to CATOBAR configuration.

 

[Ashutosh]

Are we ordering Falcons as well for our Air Force?

Distribution of resources, manpower, parts etc. is enough to say that Dassault can't take anymore.

 

[Akshat]

Distribution of resources, manpower, parts etc. is enough to say that Dassault can't take anymore.

And who are we to say that they don’t have anymore resources? The 36 jets per month number is just for Rafale. That means only enough orders to last 6 years. And French orders can even be delayed a bit. Compare that to LM, which delivered first F16 in 7 years to Taiwan under the latest deal (will deliver in 7 actually). So they have more than enough space. Easily can deliver our jets.

 

[SK]

IAF's strategy doesn't makes sense as there is Indian Aerospace industry & Research organization have No Experience in Stealth Technology or Super-cruise Engine tech.

India cannot compare itself to USA's formal allies like Turkey, South Korea, Japan etc when it comes to technology access & sharing.

5th Gen jets have lower serviceability rates especially due to high MRO requirements of their Stealth-Coatings. If this has changed the please share the link for the information.

Sensibly, Indian-Govt should encourage a JV b/w IAF & IN to invest in:-

1. AMCA
2. TEDBF (ORCA)

Both forces need a twin-engine 4+ Gen & 5+ Gen Combat jet for future requirements.

Let's be honest, the way IAF is ignoring the reality of India's technological limitations & the growing threats from PAF & PLAAF, it won't be a surprise if IAF will face a major failure like the one IAF did in case of the recent skirmish.

PAF is modernizing itself with best available Equipment & PLAAF has invested so much in Indigenous projects that it has allowed the Chinese Aerospace & Defence industry to slowly & steadily catch up to the level of Russians.

We are neither close to the Chinese nor Russians & can just forget about Americans.

 

[Pink Panther]

Every single jet that can be manufactured is being manufactured. And of course. F18 were in production for decades. Over time they will reduce when enough f35 are ready. Even in our inventory we have more Migs than Tejas. Doesn't mean Tejas hasn't been inducted.

No US will use both in the foreseeable future depending on where they use and the operation involved, but FA18's are used 99%.

 

[Pink Panther]

That, and the simple fact that a navalised AMCA would be an absolutely terrible STOBAR fighter.

AMCA itself is fairly heavy, and if you add 3-5 tons of weight in navalising it, you will end up with a fighter that is good for CATOBAR operations, but for STOBAR operations, that would entail massive compromises on fuel and/or payload, which would make the jet's utility go down a lot.

any figther jet including Rafale-M can't be used to it's full potential in STOBAR config, this is why Rafale-M is unneccassary for us, MIG-29M would work admirably in STOBAR config due to its high PWR.

 

[Pink Panther]

IN knows that AMCA won't be production ready for next 14-15 years.

This is the reason why IAF wanted AMCA and not ORCA because they are fearing that ORCA/TEDBF might be ready soon, and if they are ready GOI will force those on them until AMCA is actually ready, thatey clearly don't want to be in that situation and instead wanted to keep the door open for Foreign naval fighter jets at that time citing the delays in AMCA, they are notorius to always keep a door open for future income.

 

[Pink Panther]

Make it 20yrs

it is quiet possible Bro, considering the complexity.

 

[Pink Panther]

TEDBF is natural progression and necesary requirement. There wont be a Naval AMCA. And IAF will need Su30 replacement.

TEDBF can be enlarged like how the Japanese developed the F2 (enlarged F16) and will be perfectly placed for heavy fighter

yes it could be done, all they need a is a schema for a twin engine jet, enlarging would be much easier.