IAF Not Interested in Land-Based Variant of TEDBF, Focusing on AMCA and Tejas MkII

The Indian Navy's vision for a new carrier-borne fighter jet, the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF), seems to be encountering rough seas from the Indian Air Force (IAF). The IAF has reportedly shown little interest in the Navy's proposal for a land-based variant of the TEDBF, named the Omni-Role Combat Aircraft (ORCA).

Why the IAF Isn't on Board with ORCA​

According to a senior IAF official, developing the ORCA would be redundant. The IAF is already heavily invested in the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), a domestically manufactured 5th-generation fighter jet in the same weight class (around 25 tons) as the ORCA. The AMCA boasts features like stealth technology and advanced avionics, putting it at the forefront of modern fighter jet design.

The IAF has a clear roadmap for its fighter jet fleet. This includes inducting the lighter Tejas MkII fighters (around 17.5 tons) – 200 units are planned – followed by the more advanced AMCA with an estimated procurement of 200 units post-2033. Additionally, they're looking to acquire 97 Tejas Mk1A fighters, bringing their total Tejas fleet to a substantial 220.

When questioned about the possibility of ORCA replacing the Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) program (likely to result in the selection of the Rafale jets), IAF officials highlighted their existing investment in infrastructure and pilot training for the 36 Rafales already in service. They see the ORCA as offering no significant technological leap over the Tejas MkII or AMCA, making it an unnecessary expense.

Navy Sails On with TEDBF​

Despite the IAF's disinterest, the TEDBF program remains a priority for the Navy. The 26-ton TEDBF is specifically designed for operation from India's aircraft carriers, and it's intended to replace their ageing MiG-29K fleet.

Looking Ahead: Collaboration or Separate Paths?​

The IAF's focus on the AMCA and Tejas MkII programs signifies a strategic shift towards self-reliance in 5th-generation fighter jet technology. The Navy's TEDBF program, however, remains crucial for maintaining their carrier-based airpower. Whether the future holds collaboration between the IAF and Navy on a joint carrier-borne fighter jet project remains to be seen.

 

[Akshat]

One article a foreign magazine Janes which says supply problems in geopolitics:

HAL delays delivery of first Tejas Mk 1A to mid-2024

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has test-flown its first production Tejas Mk 1A Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). However, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is unlikely to get...

www.janes.com

It does not specify which part but it clearly says international geopolitics related delays

Is this official? I always say that DRDO, HAL and DPSUs spread lies. CAG has audited it and said this themselves.

 

[Akshat]

It has been inducted but in far fewer numbers. Also, F18s are still dominant in USN, not F35B

Every single jet that can be manufactured is being manufactured. And of course. F18 were in production for decades. Over time they will reduce when enough f35 are ready. Even in our inventory we have more Migs than Tejas. Doesn't mean Tejas hasn't been inducted.

 

[Akshat]

This is just another baseless fancy. India walked out because India did not get full TOT agreement

India walked out because the jet was a junk. That's also why Russia itself reduced orders by 70%.

 

[Akshat]

MK2 was sanctioned in 2010 and UPA sabotaged its progress till 2014. AMCA was also sanctioned at similar time. How did 2 decades happen?

IAF said in 2005 that it will buy 200 Mk2. So the basic features and designs must have been confirmed back then. That's 2 decades.

 

[Akshat]

This is just your bias without basis. HAL used to make 20 Su30s about a decade back

Not even once did they make 20 Su30 in any year. Show me a single year.

 

[Torontodude]

Instead of mk2 we should focus on orca. Don't know why IAF is pushing for mk2 so hard.. today or tomorrow anyway we have to replace su-30 and orca will be the best replacement

Faster to get into production and operations

 

[Raja Raja Cholan]

Yes, of course, we are purchasing 200 MK2, 220 MK1A, and 200 AMCA. However, we need one more twin-engine 4.5-gen fighter instead of MRFA. There's no sign of selecting MRFA in the near future, and even if chosen, it will take another 10 years. Why not consider ORCA instead of MRFA? It would be better to buy 36 more Rafales. Our strength lies in having different variants of fighters. Of course, maintenance is a nightmare, but it's good to confuse our rivals

Thambi Bala, if Tejas Mk2, TEDBF and AMCA are surrounded by unpredictable uncertainties ORCA may even take much longer. ORCA, I believe is just in the idea stage probably is not even on the drawing board. All these Mk2, AMCA and TEDBF certainly will take much longer time than expected. We should have gone with the 114 MRFA fighter aircrafts long ago when IAF mooted the idea for urgent need for MRFA to bolster the dwindling fighter squadrons in the IAF. This is all about forward forecast, planning and taking proactive measures to contain our adversaries. Now we are like neither here nor there. Everything seems far reaching bcoz of our casual approach to urgent defence requirements. We are famous for dragging our feet in our decision making on crucial necessities. I read few days back someone said china is not going attack India anytime soon bcoz no one wants war. I find it amusing that there are people still doesn't know much about cunning china or ignorant how china made a surprise attack on Indian forces while negotiations still undergoing. Even late but better than to be sorry India must procure 114 MRFA fighter aircrafts soon. Let HAL and ADA take their time to concentrate on their projects incorporating all the vital advanced technologies in these projects without pressure. Just my suggestion we should go for 50 percent F4 Rafael fighters and another 50 percent heavy fighters like F15EX. We have spent more than 200 million USD in the Russian fighter project so we can be stingy to spend for something highly imperative for defence of the nation.

just my opinion.

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

IAF isn't willing to divert it's funds for TEDBF now and it's understandable.. Navy should focus on TEDBF and later when the prototype gets ready then IAF can join the program.. Not to forget Requirement of 50+ TEDBF jets will increase as all mig-29k will be retired by 2035 & IAC2 will be ready for induction by 2036-37.

IAF can replace 150 Su-30mki by ( Airforce version of TEDBF ) and also increase the squadron strength.

 

[Pink Panther]

Oh the Russian jet is horrendous. India dumped 300 million USD and walked out. Russia itself cut down the orders by 70%.

Better than France not being able to produce one jet to even call as 5th gen or a 5th gen jet engine, even with help from a million Countries.

 

[Pink Panther]

French Rafale F4 Order Backlog Stands At 306 Aircraft, Excluding Anticipated 45 Saudi Orders

France's Dassault Aviation may not be able to meet demand for its Rafale fighter jet.The Rafale has become popular with India and several Middle Eastern nations.It's a national fighter jet limited by French resources, an aviation expert argued. France's Rafale fighter has become so...

www.globaldefensecorp.com

Backlog of 306 soon to be of 351☝️

Now coming to your statement , idk what's giving u that idea.... u r taking the scenario of 5 years before..

Currently Dassault is no room deliver more ........we aren't getting any jets before a decade.

Saudi might order 80, Turkey is also in talks and they might order 80 as well, so the backlog will soon be 466.

 

[Akshat]

Better than France not being able to produce one jet to even call as 5th gen or a 5th gen jet engine, even with help from a million Countries.

Million countries? Which alternate universe are you even living in bro?

 

[Kira]

There is a requirement for 150-ish TEDBF between three carriers and shore squadrons. Moreover, the IAF could even push for getting the Rafale Ms transferred if the TEDBF becomes available in large numbers in the 2030s.

Considering that the Tejas Mk 2 and AMCA were started out with a 120 aircraft potential order book, 150 for TEDBF is more than sufficient to proceed. Moreover, if we could then develop it further into a STOL variant, it could even potentially be deployed in small numbers on the planned MRSV LHDs.

But by the time of their actual induction arrives that is by late 2030s,there will be no more point in purchasing any 4.5th Gen jets.I am simply saying by that point,IN should just concentrate on acquiring real 5th gen birds instead of continuing to buy 4th gen ones.

 

[Pad UwU]

IN knows that AMCA won't be production ready for next 14-15 years.

Make it 20yrs

 

[Pad UwU]

A navalised AMCA is a good fit for CATOBAR operations (other concerns aside). It is also an absolutely terrible STOBAR fighter due to the forced compromises in fuel and/or payload.

Naval AMCA can't match the current stealth technology of f35b/c capabilities when it's flying in a aircraft carrier 😹😹😹
That's why it was rejected bruh

 

[Pad UwU]

Wow! Fantastic idea. If TEDBF/ORCA is cancelled we need 2nd bkup plan ABCD/EFGH and if that is cancelled we need a 3rd bkup plan.
Well try to derail Bharat's steady growth advising unnecessary, multiple & parallel plans so that every plan gets collapsed and Bharat is forced to import.

Well buying imported aircraft is more reliable and faster to acquire than wasting money and time for solo developing of indigenous aircraft because of to much toxic bureaucrats

 

[Pad UwU]

Let MKII fly. Timeline and quality of MK II will decide if and how many more Rafales are needed and bought.

Time will tell. MRFA didn’t happen in two decades!

MRFA is simply way too costly. In that money ($25B-30B), both AMCA, MKII along with the 110KN class of engine can be developed (costing about $10B) and about 200-250 (costing about $15B-20B) of these indigenous fighters can be procured too. Cost is the single biggest reason MRFA may not happen. But for that MKII and AMCA need to fly.

Developing AMCA until 15~20yrs from now

 

[Pink Panther]

Can you please explain the 306 number? Itne kaha se aaye?

I think it was explained here in details many times by other fellow forumers.

 

[Pink Panther]

Rightfully so because IAF needs a bigger and 5th Generation AMCA with all the bells and whistles.
Whereas TEDBF is a smaller version and will not fit in IAF requirements.

Too many fighter development programs at the same time - Tejas Mk IA, Tejas Mk2, TEDBF, and AMCA.
Very difficult for a country like India and failures will be high.

On the top of that IN will be paying dearly through their noses for 26 Rafale-Ms - not less than $8+ billions for them and $2+ billions for their armaments.
Perhaps, IN should use this $10+ billions to develop its own TEDBF and armaments and save money for India and other services procurements needs.

We can't blame IAF.

Wish IAF only wants all the bells and whistles in AMCA, they would want all the bells and whistles in every jet HAL makes, which is the reason for all the delays.

 

[Akshat]

I think it was explained here in details many times by other fellow forumers.

Nopes, it never was. Aap batao.

 

[Pad UwU]

AMCA is slow and no where near to be found 😹😹😹
Its only a overhype and overspec aircraft on paper and CGI....
Same goes to Tejas mk2, why still buying mk1a when they said mk2 is more better???? No prototype only in article story🙃