ADA Seeks to Equip AMCA with a Cannon that Matches its 5th-Gen Capabilities, Explores Gatling and GSh-301 for Enhanced Firepower

The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is considering upgrading the cannon armament for its Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program. Moving beyond the 23mm twin-barrelled Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 cannon, currently used in the Tejas Mk1A and planned for the Tejas MkII, ADA aims to equip the AMCA with a higher-calibre gun to better match its fifth-generation capabilities.

The AMCA, with a projected maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) of approximately 27 tons, has the capacity to integrate a more powerful weapon system. While ADA has not officially announced the replacement, sources suggest that two primary options are being evaluated: a four-barrelled 25mm Gatling-type cannon and a 30mm GSh-301 cannon, known for its reliability and firepower.

Although the AMCA's design specifications initially included the GSh-23 cannon, both the Indian Air Force (IAF) and ADA are exploring alternatives that align with the aircraft's fifth-generation capabilities and operational requirements.

The decision to explore a larger-calibre weapon stems from the AMCA's role as a 5.5-generation stealth fighter. The platform's increased size and enhanced capabilities demand a gun system with greater range, power, and versatility to effectively engage both ground and aerial targets.

Integrating a new gun system is a complex process, as demonstrated during the LCA-Tejas program, where gun calibration presented significant challenges. Given the extensive testing and integration required, the transition to a new gun for the AMCA may occur at a later stage in the program's development, potentially during initial operational clearances or subsequent upgrades.

The AMCA program is progressing steadily, with ADA aiming for a rollout by late 2026 or early 2027 and induction planned for the mid-2030s. The final decision on the gun system will likely be made during the final design refinements, ensuring the platform is fully optimized for its intended operational roles.

By equipping the AMCA with a more powerful cannon, ADA aims to provide the IAF with a truly formidable fifth-generation fighter that can dominate the skies and effectively engage adversaries across a wide range of combat scenarios.

 

[RG]

Develop own standards, based on needs, chart a path that others would like to follow.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Import initially then design and develop our own. In future such a gun can also be integrated with drones.

 

[Neal.B]

Cannons are important part of any military aircraft. India should develop their own mounted gun systems asap.

 

[desigandu]

Question - can we dispense with the guns and just have a larger internal weapons bay, including potentially side bays? What are the advantages and disadvantages of having a cannon in modern stealth planes warfare, where dogfights and close combats are rare!

 

[Kira]

Question - can we dispense with the guns and just have a larger internal weapons bay, including potentially side bays? What are the advantages and disadvantages of having a cannon in modern stealth planes warfare, where dogfights and close combats are rare!

That is a valid point, but the humble gun(s) can be very handy during clutch situations like in a close-in dogfight (granted a rarity nowadays). It can, of course, be used against ground targets and, unlike missiles or radar, most crucially, it can't be electronically jammed or its performance degraded.

Having said that, if any proposed gun seriously affects the aerodynamic performance of the plane when firing or takes a lot of valuable space or makes the jet heavier, then I am all for abandoning it. But let's weigh the pros and cons first.

PS - I also envision a distinct scenario where two opposing groups of stealth jets (with similar stealth/flight capabilities) with limited missiles in their internal weapons bay and unable to properly secure a target lock at BVR range ultimately end up facing each other in a close-range visual knife fight. Then, the jet with an internal cannon will have an edge.

 

[desigandu]

@Kira
Thanks…How likely is such a scenario? Also we may have other networked 4.5 gen and drones around!
Is the cannon a relic of the past or absolutely vital when compared to say an 2-4 AA missiles in an internal weapons bay, including potential side bays!

I am not an expert, thus my question, which I am sure our IAF knows best!

 

[Sridhar]

Ideally a 5th gen fighter jet need not have a cannon. Guns are outdated.

 

[Sridhar]

Cannons are important part of any military aircraft. India should develop their own mounted gun systems asap.

On a 5th gen? In today's world war is fought from a good stand off distance. Especially dog fights will be a rare occurrence in today's world. Yes if you want down a spy balloon or an unarmed plane or a drone, guns can be used.

 

[Jagroshan singh]

Ideally a 5th gen fighter jet need not have a cannon. Guns are outdated.

Why not, being stealthy gives the ability to reach behind your enemy tail and instead of firing a costly air-to-air missile, just press the button and fire 50-100 bullets, effectively achieving the same result.

 

[Jagroshan singh]

@Kira
Americans also had the similar mentality when they evolved the air-to-air missiles and ditched the cannon on F-4 Phantoms. Later they regret their decision in Vietnam war.

 

[Dipesh Debnath]

Why not, being stealthy gives the ability to reach behind your enemy tail and instead of firing a costly air-to-air missile, just press the button and fire 50-100 bullets, effectively achieving the same result.

Stealthy at a very large distance. Stealthy does not mean u are invisible. Instead fire long range missile at standoff distance and go to next task. We are not in 1940s red baron age. Modern capable aircrafts are arming with many AAMs indicating shift in strategy.

 

[Jagroshan singh]

Ideally a 5th gen fighter jet need not have a cannon. Guns are outdated.

A cannon in a fighter aircraft is like having a sidearm with main rifle. In worst case scenerio, if by any chance missile firing system failed to work, atleast pilots left with something instead of aborting the mission.

 

[Krishna Kalagara]

Stealthy at a very large distance. Stealthy does not mean u are invisible. Instead fire long range missile at standoff distance and go to next task. We are not in 1940s red baron age. Modern capable aircrafts are arming with many AAMs indicating shift in strategy.

Why do you think the designers and builders of 5th Gen fighters like F-22 Raptor, F-35 Lightning, Su-57, KF-21 Boramae, TAI TF Kaan, armed them with cannons? Only exception being Chengdu J-20 and Shenyang J-35.

 

[Sandeep]

For the AMCA they definitely need to 100% indigenously develop and manufacture a 30mm multi barrel cannon as a gun is an essential requirement to a jet. They will obviously need to have it covered behind a stealth door which can be opened and closed whenever it’s needed so that it doesn’t compromise the jets stealth capabilities.

 

[Dipesh Debnath]

Why do you think the designers and builders of 5th Gen fighters like F-22 Raptor, F-35 Lightning, Su-57, KF-21 Boramae, TAI TF Kaan, armed them with cannons? Only exception being Chengdu J-20 and Shenyang J-35.

It is the battle tactics that designs the aircraft. Some stealth plane designers think that they need a gun to defend if they run out of all missiles, partly because they have less missiles. Some designers think they have enough missiles, and will finish the war at standoff distance and return base and let other planes continue the fight. In early cold war, some planes had only missiles. If the missiles are longer range than your adversaries, planes can be designed without guns. Latest PL series missiles are extremely long range and J20 plane will have drones do the fighting before fight comes to the human.

 

[Baba Baati Baachur]

Question - can we dispense with the guns and just have a larger internal weapons bay, including potentially side bays? What are the advantages and disadvantages of having a cannon in modern stealth planes warfare, where dogfights and close combats are rare!

The one scenario I can think off is like the Iranian attack on Israel with large number of drones, those drones needs to be shot down but using missiles fired from an aircraft can become a costly affair as USAF pilots ran out of missiles that night. Instead getting close and firing guns will be cheaper.

 

[Sridhar]

A cannon in a fighter aircraft is like having a sidearm with main rifle. In worst case scenerio, if by any chance missile firing system failed to work, atleast pilots left with something instead of aborting the mission.

True. But a 5th gen need not have is what I meant. F22 Raptor does not have any cannon.

 

[Jagroshan singh]

True. But a 5th gen need not have is what I meant. F22 Raptor does not have any cannon.

That's incorrect,
F-35 Lightning II fighter jet is equipped with a 25mm GAU-22/A rotary cannon (4 barrel gatling gun)
F-22 Raptor is equipped with an M61A2 Vulcan 20mm rotary cannon (6 barrel gatling gun)

You can verify the details, even you can find videos on YouTube where F-22 and F-35 doing firing trials with their cannons.

 

[Dipesh Debnath]

Case 1: Have fewer missiles, so have a gun for close battle.

Case 2: Have many long-range missiles and fire from standoff distance. Leave the battlefield and let the missile hit the target on its own.

Case 3: Have drones fight the war, use a twin-pilot plane design, manage the drones by the copilot, and fire missiles if something still has incoming missiles or aircraft.

Choose the best case for the plane and build the plane accordingly.

 

[Venkat S]

@Kira
Americans also had the similar mentality when they evolved the air-to-air missiles and ditched the cannon on F-4 Phantoms. Later they regret their decision in Vietnam war.

Yes. F4 lost out on this when they faced MIgs. Migs out turned them and out manoeured them. Especially when F4 exhausted it's missiles they did not have any ammo to take on marauding Migs.
Also F4 was bulkier among the both and hence Mig 21 had better AoA capabilities. But F4 had superior avionics.