Aging Greek Mirage 2000-5 Fleet Faces Uncertain Future as Potential Sales to India and France Collapse

Aging Greek Mirage 2000-5 Fleet Faces Uncertain Future as Potential Sales to India and France Collapse


The Hellenic Air Force (HAF) is facing a difficult decision regarding the future of its aging Mirage 2000-5 fighter jets. These aircraft, once a critical part of Greece's air defense strategy, particularly in relation to regional rival Turkey, are now nearing the end of their operational lifespan.

Recent attempts to sell the aircraft to India and France have failed, forcing Greece to consider phasing them out due to increasing maintenance costs.

Greece's plan to sell its fleet of 25 Mirage 2000-5 aircraft has been unsuccessful. Initial interest from India and France did not materialize into firm offers.

India, which already operates an earlier version of the Mirage 2000, had considered the Greek -5 models as a temporary solution to address its dwindling number of fighter squadrons.

However, India has since prioritized its own domestic aircraft production, like the Tejas, and is exploring the acquisition of more modern aircraft, including the Lockheed Martin F-35 or additional Dassault Rafales. These developments have made the Greek offer less attractive.

France, where the Mirage 2000 was originally manufactured, also decided against purchasing the Greek aircraft. The French Air and Space Force has been replacing its Mirage 2000 fleet with the more advanced Rafale fighter.

Because France no longer operates the Mirage 2000-5 and the used aircraft market is well-supplied, there was little incentive for France to acquire Greece's jets. This leaves the HAF with aircraft it cannot easily sell or maintain.

The existing maintenance agreement for Greece's Mirage 2000-5s is set to expire in 2027. This contract, signed in 2019 with French companies Dassault Aviation, Safran, and Thales, and valued at €332 million (approximately $355 million USD), provides essential parts, repairs, and technical support to keep the planes flying.

However, the Chief of the Hellenic Air Force General Staff, Lt. Gen. Theodoros Lagios, has indicated that a renewal of this contract is uncertain, as the French manufacturers are shifting all their focus tothe Rafale fighter jet.

With the option of selling the aircraft off the table, Greece must choose between extending the operational life of the Mirage 2000-5s or retiring them sooner.

Extending the service life would require renewing the maintenance contract, likely at a significantly increased cost. Industry experts suggest that maintaining the fleet without the original manufacturers' support could raise annual expenses by 30-40%, as Greece would need to find alternative suppliers or use parts from its older Mirage 2000 aircraft. This approach, however, would only provide a temporary solution.

Another option for Greece is to transition to a fleet entirely composed of Rafale fighters, similar to France's current strategy. This would involve purchasing an additional 12-18 Rafale aircraft, which would simplify maintenance and logistics and secure long-term support from Dassault.

However, this approach presents financial challenges. Greece's defense budget, already one of the highest in NATO at 3.8% of its Gross Domestic Product (GDP), is under pressure due to other recent military purchases, including discussions with the U.S. about acquiring F-35s and upgrades to its navy.

To finance additional Rafales, Greece might need to explore options such as selling the Mirage 2000-5s for scrap value or using them for training purposes.
 
We should retire all the old aircraft and buy some cheaper, new aircraft until Tejas Mk2 is ready. Either Gripen-E would be best in this case, or F-21, if they are cheaper than Gripen.
 
Mirage 2000, most outdated fighter jet out of 3, MiG-29/F-16, which were of same era, just to increase sales of Rafale.
 
We should retire all the old aircraft and buy some cheaper, new aircraft until Tejas Mk2 is ready. Either Gripen-E would be best in this case, or F-21, if they are cheaper than Gripen.
That Ship has sailed long ago.. Only serious competitor are Rafale, EFT, F15 and F35.
 
That is what happens if we buy French jets. Highly expensive upgrades. Upgrades validity for only 8 years. No second-hand market. Finally, cannibalize and sell the spare parts.
 
Cant’t afford, Rafale, EFT or F15, won’t get F35.
The private assembly line is a must for Tejas Mk1A/Tejas Mk2; it should be non-negotiable. Otherwise, we will forever be at the mercy of HAL. Get the engine deal for both the F414 and 6th generation engine signed immediately with private entity involvement.
 
The private assembly line is a must for Tejas Mk1A/Tejas Mk2; it should be non-negotiable. Otherwise, we will forever be at the mercy of HAL. Get the engine deal for both the F414 and 6th generation engine signed immediately with private entity involvement.
What would the private companies do? In India, in general, public/private [entities] can only make 50% of a 4th gen jet. The main reason for MRFA is to learn the remaining 50% through tech transfer. We won't get any tech transfer for any of the jets in your list. Only SAAB or LM might be willing to transfer tech, and both are much cheaper compared to the jets in your list and can play the same role. Definitely no F-15, as it's a duplication of SU-30.
 
What would the private companies do? In India, in general, public/private [entities] can only make 50% of a 4th gen jet. The main reason for MRFA is to learn the remaining 50% through tech transfer. We won't get any tech transfer for any of the jets in your list. Only SAAB or LM might be willing to transfer tech, and both are much cheaper compared to the jets in your list and can play the same role. Definitely no F-15, as it's a duplication of SU-30.
No one is going to give 100% ToT. The 30% pending tech that we lack is mainly for the engine, ejection seat, and advanced manufacturing, which is not going to come even with Gripen or F21. Private companies would bring in much-needed accountability and efficiency that HAL is lacking. I think we should swallow the bitter pill that we messed up our negotiation with Dassault with the short-term procurement of 36 jets. A staggered procurement approach has not served anything except maybe saving a few quids in the short term. Dassault will keep on asking exorbitant prices no matter how much you procure, and we will never be able to get the assembly line.
 
I believe India can get these Mirages at very low bargain prices and use these older jets as a spares supply for its own Mirage-2000s, which are going to be in service till at least 2035, till the Tejas Mk-II fleet arrives.
 
No one is going to give 100% ToT. The 30% pending tech that we lack is mainly for the engine, ejection seat, and advanced manufacturing, which is not going to come even with Gripen or F21. Private companies would bring in much-needed accountability and efficiency that HAL is lacking. I think we should swallow the bitter pill that we messed up our negotiation with Dassault with the short-term procurement of 36 jets. A staggered procurement approach has not served anything except maybe saving a few quids in the short term. Dassault will keep on asking exorbitant prices no matter how much you procure, and we will never be able to get the assembly line.
Also, Dassault themselves said that they can only make 12 Rafales/year in India, which will take the end of delivery to 2040. If we buy 36 off the shelf, we will be delivered sometime in 2050-2060.
 
Goodbye Mirage 2000 😕😕
Soon we will also retire ours.... Most probably, phased retirement will start from 2027 when Tejas MK2 will come online.
 
Goodbye Mirage 2000 😕😕
Soon we will also retire ours.... Most probably, phased retirement will start from 2027 when Tejas MK2 will come online.
The Tejas Mk 2 isn't coming online before 2032. We'd probably see the Mk 2's first flight in 2027 if we're lucky.
 
The Hellenic Air Force is probably not going to be able to go for more Rafales for the time being. This is simply due to their force structure and present finances.

The HAF presently operates 24 Rafales, 24-34 Mirage 2000s, 152-154 F-16s, and about 17 old F-4s. They have 20 F-35s on order, with a further 20 planned. Of the F-16s, the 85 jets that are Block 52 or above will be upgraded to Block 72 standards, and a further 55 will be retained at Block 50/52 standards.

That leaves them with around 184 fighters, with a further 20 planned. That is a shortfall of 21 fighters to their 9 squadron target (25 fighters per squadron, which includes four type and conversion trainers). The original plan for the HAF was that the sale of the Mirage 2000s and older Block 30 F-16s would finance part of the costs for a further 18 Rafales and 3 F-35s, which would give them two full Rafale squadrons, two full F-35 squadrons, and five F-16 Block 52/72 squadrons.

The HAF will manage to sell the Mirages most likely. Morocco has been wanting to buy second-hand Mirage 2000s from the UAE when the UAE starts replacing these with the Rafale from 2027. They have even agreed to sell 30 Mirage 2000s to Morocco. Similarly, Egypt has been making noises about buying a further 24 Mirage 2000s from the UAE (the UAE has 59 in total). Greece might end up selling to one of these nations if sales to India or France do not materialise.

With these sales, they will quite probably get a decent sum for new fighters. Oh, and if anyone wonders where this came from, this information is from a bunch of open sources and accounts by HAF officials.
 
We should retire all the old aircraft and buy some cheaper, new aircraft until Tejas Mk2 is ready. Either Gripen-E would be best in this case, or F-21, if they are cheaper than Gripen.
It's not only the aircraft cost; introducing a new aircraft incurs a lot of logistics and maintenance costs and nightmares. Don't forget the weapon package also. Earlier, MRCA one of the main objectives was to reduce the number of types in the airforce. But we are back to the same problem. Mirage 5 is a good option for 10 years.
 
2032? OK, I believe you for now. Let's see how it flows. Yes, flows... not flies.
Sir, assuming the aircraft is unveiled towards the end of this year, we would see a first flight in late 2026, in the best-case scenario. Now, most jets take 5-8 years for trials, so even if one assumes 5.5-6 years for that, you reach 2032.
 
It's not only the aircraft cost; introducing a new aircraft incurs a lot of logistics and maintenance costs and nightmares. Don't forget the weapon package also. Earlier, MRCA one of the main objectives was to reduce the number of types in the airforce. But we are back to the same problem. Mirage 5 is a good option for 10 years.
I assume you mean the Mirage 2000 and not the Mirage 5? The only nations still having the Mirage 5 are Egypt (which has a few old airframes in storage) and Pakistan (which operates a number of Mirage 5s, including ones bought from Egypt).
 
France has already supplied Ukraine with Mirage 2000. Greece should also donate it to Ukraine.
 
Better try and sell them to African nations at a discount. No modern military with ambitions of 4.5+ or 5th gen would buy them. They are obsolete, much older, which still uses Pulse Doppler radar, lagging behind a couple of generations in tech.

It also lacks the range, speed, and maneuverability needed in today's fighter jets.
 
France has already supplied Ukraine with Mirage 2000. Greece should also donate it to Ukraine.
Greece has explicitly ruled out a donation. They need the funds and want to get something in return.

Mind you, Ukraine isn't getting anything for free. They will be paying back (willingly or otherwise) every cent, penny, etc., and then some.
 
Greece has explicitly ruled out a donation. They need the funds and want to get something in return.

Mind you, Ukraine isn't getting anything for free. They will be paying back (willingly or otherwise) every cent, penny, etc., and then some.
Some random African or Latin American country might buy it, whose needs are not exactly the top-notch fighter of this era.

Ukraine is going to face abuse from the West; at this point, they might as well join Russia.
 

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