Analyst: J-20 Severely Limited in Himalayan Region, May Lose Up To 70% Power in Tibet

Analyst: J-20 Severely Limited in Himalayan Region, May Lose Up To 70% Power in Tibet


Recent test flights of China's J-20 fighter jet over the Tibetan Plateau have highlighted potential shortcomings in its high-altitude performance, according to Indian defense analyst Abhijit Iyer-Mitra.

The Chengdu Institute of Aviation Industry conducted these flights in 2021, likely from the Daocheng Yading Airport, situated at an elevation of over 4,000 meters. While demonstrating China's interest in high-altitude operations, the tests also point to significant limitations for the J-20 in these environments.

The thin air at such altitudes drastically reduces engine thrust, leading to a potential loss of 60-70% of the J-20's capabilities, Iyer-Mitra estimates. This particularly affects the aircraft's maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) and its ability to carry a full payload.

The rugged terrain of the Tibetan Plateau may also pose problems. Daocheng Yading Airport's runway length might be insufficient for the J-20's size and weight (estimated MTOW of 37-40 tons). Its single-wheel front landing gear could experience faster wear and tear, leading to more frequent maintenance requirements.

Furthermore, operating with its full estimated weapons load of 11,000 kg at these altitudes would likely prove impractical. The combined impact of limited engine power and the aircraft's weight could restrict the J-20's combat effectiveness in the region.

These factors cast doubt on the J-20's viability in a potential India-China conflict, particularly within the Himalayan border region. However, it's possible that China's primary goal with these tests was to signal technological prowess and collect data on high-altitude fighter behavior for future advancements in aircraft design.
 
Rafale has much sleaker design as compared to J16, which is a chonker Su35. Rafale has much better radar, and meteor missiles which are best in class misile in world especially at longer ranges, whic is extremely relevant because J16 will get detected at longer range due to its much bigger RCS profile.
J16 has PL15, PL17 missiles......not just that - I especially mentioned J16 growler ( in service with PLAAF) ......both meteor and Rafales radar would be heavily punished by these especially if there is a formation of growlers.
 
I don't know about you all but i gave seen youtube video of J20 fitted with their new WS15 engine that is reported more powerful than F22 jet engine. The J20 taje off at a short distance and flew like a rocket up.. I haven't seen F22 flew like that. I don't see J20 wipl have problem with 4,000 feet high plateu... China definitely will consider Tibet mountainous region as even their Helicopter are design with Tibet in mind..
 
I don't know about you all but i gave seen youtube video of J20 fitted with their new WS15 engine that is reported more powerful than F22 jet engine. The J20 taje off at a short distance and flew like a rocket up.. I haven't seen F22 flew like that. I don't see J20 wipl have problem with 4,000 feet high plateu... China definitely will consider Tibet mountainous region as even their Helicopter are design with Tibet in mind..
Yeah, I heard about it. The rumour is that it took off like a rocket directly to space & the aircraft is doing an orbit around the earth these days. 🤣😂
 
36 Rafales will limit their advantage.........low quality weed results such thoughts and ideas....they operate a squadron of Su35 only which are significantly equal to Rafales.....I m not even talking about J16- the best flanker currently in Service.
China has zero war experience, we have already shown our attitude in Nathula 1965 war. Also it's not only about gadgets, pilot skills are also need to be considered, otherwise mig would not had hit down F16.
 
China has zero war experience, we have already shown our attitude in Nathula 1965 war. Also it's not only about gadgets, pilot skills are also need to be considered, otherwise mig would not had hit down F16.
There is this report of USAF countering J20s......the US pilots were very impressed by PLAAF pilots skills.... there is this saying that China employs ex USAF staff to teach their pilots........

Some old but wise words:

Underestimating ur enemy is your first defeat.
 
J16 has PL15, PL17 missiles......not just that - I especially mentioned J16 growler ( in service with PLAAF) ......both meteor and Rafales radar would be heavily punished by these especially if there is a formation of growlers.
PL15 and PL17 are have higher range just because they are larger and carry greater fuel. Meteor has ramjet technology, which is a different class. Ramjet allows great speed throughout flight, and much greater probability of kill at longer ranges. Combined with better radar on rafale, it is best A2A platform in the world by long margin. Dont just look at range of missiles in kms and judge them.

Also, regarding so called growlers, they are just specialised jets which carry EW pods. I dont see why you are so fascinated with them. Rafale carries advanced AESA radar which cant be jammed. And these EW jets are usually used for SEAD missions, not for A2A combat. Apples and oranges here.
 
PL15 and PL17 are have higher range just because they are larger and carry greater fuel. Meteor has ramjet technology, which is a different class. Ramjet allows great speed throughout flight, and much greater probability of kill at longer ranges. Combined with better radar on rafale, it is best A2A platform in the world by long margin. Dont just look at range of missiles in kms and judge them.

Also, regarding so called growlers, they are just specialised jets which carry EW pods. I dont see why you are so fascinated with them. Rafale carries advanced AESA radar which cant be jammed. And these EW jets are usually used for SEAD missions, not for A2A combat. Apples and oranges here.
SEAD doesn't consist A2A combat.....well that's new to me .
Not just that, What do u think is SEAD bro!?
If SEAD is successful then any aerospace is done AF.
Also coming to your statements:
They are just pods.....
They aren't just pods sir they are specialised pods to deceive an enemy air defense, and has proven their worth.
An A2A missile can be easily countered by growler but ur average aircraft like Rafale would have to go through all those break and recommit $h!t .

A growler is times more efficient in terms of self defence when compared to ur average fighter, they can easily cook a missile directed to them especially in a formation of growlers.
 
I am not gonna say anything, deny anything, I am just gonna ask, WHERE IS THE AMCA? We were supposed have the first flight this year, I mean we can criticize the J20 all we want, but we do not have any counter, despite the drop in Engine Performance.
 
SEAD doesn't consist A2A combat.....well that's new to me .
Not just that, What do u think is SEAD bro!?
If SEAD is successful then any aerospace is done AF.
Also coming to your statements:
They are just pods.....
They aren't just pods sir they are specialised pods to deceive an enemy air defense, and has proven their worth.
An A2A missile can be easily countered by growler but ur average aircraft like Rafale would have to go through all those break and recommit $h!t .

A growler is times more efficient in terms of self defence when compared to ur average fighter, they can easily cook a missile directed to them especially in a formation of growlers.
SEAD involves air to surface warfare. Taking out enemy SAMs, radars, air bases and air strips. SEAD aircraft carry anti radiatioin missiles and bombs and other A2G stuff. they are accompanied by Air superiority fighters, which protect them from enemy aircraft and are for A2A role. You can read about it if you want.

The chinese have copied the term growler from the americans. The original growler is an electronic warfare version of F-18 hornet, called EA-18 growler. And this aircraft replaced the Prowler EW aircraft. EW aircraft are also mainly used for SEAD missions. They are not soecialised for A2A missions. That is domain for Air superiority jets, like F22, J20 etc.
 
SEAD involves air to surface warfare. Taking out enemy SAMs, radars, air bases and air strips. SEAD aircraft carry anti radiatioin missiles and bombs and other A2G stuff. they are accompanied by Air superiority fighters, which protect them from enemy aircraft and are for A2A role. You can read about it if you want.

The chinese have copied the term growler from the americans. The original growler is an electronic warfare version of F-18 hornet, called EA-18 growler. And this aircraft replaced the Prowler EW aircraft. EW aircraft are also mainly used for SEAD missions. They are not soecialised for A2A missions. That is domain for Air superiority jets, like F22, J20 etc.
SEAD fighters necessarily equip themselves with A2A missiles though mainly for Self defence..... photos are available of J 16 carrying PL17 and pods .......
Just as I said if SEAD is done then half of ur air superiority is achieved .......
J16 can easily nullify our Air defense, 36 Rafales aren't a bother for them , afterall J20 got their backs......
All we have to somewhat stand infront of them is 3 S400 batteries and 36 Rafales.....we are just going to get our @$$ rammed.

Electronic warfare is the present which will just get more powerful in future......

DEWs are the need and we got to get our Sukhois modified into a EW growler.
 
SEAD fighters necessarily equip themselves with A2A missiles though mainly for Self defence..... photos are available of J 16 carrying PL17 and pods .......
Just as I said if SEAD is done then half of ur air superiority is achieved .......
J16 can easily nullify our Air defense, 36 Rafales aren't a bother for them , afterall J20 got their backs......
All we have to somewhat stand infront of them is 3 S400 batteries and 36 Rafales.....we are just going to get our @$$ rammed.

Electronic warfare is the present which will just get more powerful in future......

DEWs are the need and we got to get our Sukhois modified into a EW growler.
you are using wrong term. There is no such thing as SEAD figher, SEAD is not a type of aircraft, it is a type of mission. In a SEAD mission there will be multiple aircraft which have different roles. There will be EW aircraft, Ground attack aircraft, air superiority air craft in the group.

Most modern fighters are multirole, so it is entirely possible for J16 to carry out multiple kinds of mission, BUT, in a particular mission, 1 aircraft usually carries load for a particular mission. For eg. lets say a SEAD mission is to be done, then you can have 3 J16, 1 could be in EW confiduration, while other 2 could be carrying ARM, and other ground attack munitions.
 
you are using wrong term. There is no such thing as SEAD figher, SEAD is not a type of aircraft, it is a type of mission. In a SEAD mission there will be multiple aircraft which have different roles. There will be EW aircraft, Ground attack aircraft, air superiority air craft in the group.

Most modern fighters are multirole, so it is entirely possible for J16 to carry out multiple kinds of mission, BUT, in a particular mission, 1 aircraft usually carries load for a particular mission. For eg. lets say a SEAD mission is to be done, then you can have 3 J16, 1 could be in EW confiduration, while other 2 could be carrying ARM, and other ground attack munitions.
Sry for using the term here- it was a result of hastiness

Coming to ur statements:

That's what I m saying - A formation of J16 will totally overpower us .

C'mon bro 245 + J16s let's say only 100 of them are coming for us......
Now just sensibly reply who is gonna win here

A formation of obsolete Su 30s + 36 advanced Rafles

Or
A formation of J16 and J16D .

The debate ends here......
J16 is enough to tackle out Rafales, let alone J20s
 
Sry for using the term here- it was a result of hastiness

Coming to ur statements:

That's what I m saying - A formation of J16 will totally overpower us .

C'mon bro 245 + J16s let's say only 100 of them are coming for us......
Now just sensibly reply who is gonna win here

A formation of obsolete Su 30s + 36 advanced Rafles

Or
A formation of J16 and J16D .

The debate ends here......
J16 is enough to tackle out Rafales, let alone J20s
we would be on the defensive, no doubt about that. But we can use SAM like S400 to keep them at bay. We will be at disadvantage but that will be it. In all Indo pak wars, IAF has been at disadvantage vs PAF. PAF were the first to use A2A missiles, IAF got their own much later. Even though PAF has maintained technological edge, IAF has still beaten them.

China is not pakis, but I still have faith in our IAF. It might not beat china, but it would not lose either.
 
we would be on the defensive, no doubt about that. But we can use SAM like S400 to keep them at bay. We will be at disadvantage but that will be it. In all Indo pak wars, IAF has been at disadvantage vs PAF. PAF were the first to use A2A missiles, IAF got their own much later. Even though PAF has maintained technological edge, IAF has still beaten them.

China is not pakis, but I still have faith in our IAF. It might not beat china, but it would not lose either.
Overestimation and underestimation both are deadly for both sides......

I m simply looking at the capabilities online currently......and just as I said
J16 are enough to counter Rafales.

Problem is IAF still maintains their reputation of being the weaker one on capabilities

They sure might be Arjuns of the battle aerospace.......but the fact still prevails: We are doomed.
 
Overestimation and underestimation both are deadly for both sides......

I m simply looking at the capabilities online currently......and just as I said
J16 are enough to counter Rafales.

Problem is IAF still maintains their reputation of being the weaker one on capabilities

They sure might be Arjuns of the battle aerospace.......but the fact still prevails: We are doomed.
I am more optimistic, you are pessimistic. Its ok. No one is wrong. If ukraine can keep Russian air force at bay, then India can do much better since disparity is much much lower between India and China, and ukraine and russia.
 
Indians and their analysts tend to always use data (in their heads anyway) from way back. As for Iyer Mistra, let the world judge his often nonsensical approach to tackling issues he has no clue about. The j20 in 2021 was not using the Ws10C in any material numbers yet. That's a stronger engine than the Russian AL31. Most have changed to Ws10C during the next 2 years. And since 2023, more and more j20s are being fitted with the new ws15 which at 180+ kn thrust each is even stronger than the F119 on the f22.
Who is this fellow peddling false information, stronger than F22, idiot.
 

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