Boeing's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Enters the Fray for India's MRFA Contract Alongside F-15EX

Boeing has solidified its commitment to securing India's Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) contract by confirming its continued offer of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, alongside the previously announced F-15EX Eagle II. This strategic move not only strengthens Boeing's position in the competition but also provides the Indian Air Force (IAF) with a wider range of options to choose from.

The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, a proven and versatile carrier-based fighter, brings a wealth of combat experience to the table. Its twin-engine design and multirole capabilities make it a formidable asset for various missions, including air-to-air combat, ground strikes, and maritime operations.

By keeping the Super Hornet in contention, Boeing is catering to the IAF's diverse operational requirements. The aircraft's carrier compatibility aligns with India's growing naval ambitions, while its multirole capabilities complement the IAF's existing fleet.

This decision also intensifies the rivalry within the American defense industry, with Lockheed Martin also vying for the contract with its F-21 fighter. Boeing's dual offering further complicates the selection process for the IAF, as it now has to evaluate two distinct American fighter jets, each with its unique strengths and advantages.

The MRFA contract, valued at over $18 billion, is a significant opportunity for Boeing to expand its presence in the Indian defense market. By offering both the Super Hornet and the F-15EX, Boeing is demonstrating its commitment to meeting India's specific defense needs and fostering long-term partnerships.

 

[Pink Panther]

1. You still haven't shown any source for that 360 million USD figure. The only way I can see getting close to that would be to take the original figure and scale it up to inflation, which would make little sense because the original order included a disproportionately large number (on a per aircraft basis) of spares. Going for a large order would mean we would procure fewer spares (proportionately), and would give us enough leverage over the French to allow us to integrate indigenous weapons rather than buy expensive ones from them.

2. Oman has only expressed an interest in buying Rafales. They haven't ordered them yet.

3. Even if we were to buy F-15s today, there is a order book of some 70-ish F-15EXs already and a potential order book of up to 215-ish aircraft.

Inflation+RafaleF4.2cost+India specific changes cost+cost for indian missiles integration, UAE paid close to $290Mln/F4.1.

 

[Pink Panther]

40 Billion? In 2019, it was estimated to be $18 billion. And even when it's 40 billion, it's not that they have be paid in one go. Long term loans, reinvestment agreements etc. will be used to do that. And if they don't persue that, then another 36 or 54 Rafaels direct buy as happened last time.

In no way IAF is buying another jet. As i said, it'll be even more ridiculous after buying 36 Rafaels. It's logistical nightmare having another kind of jet.

In general COVID and multiple wars in the world have increased the price of everything, something called INFLATION, Buying 36 or even 50 is possible with $18Bln, problem is Dassault won’t make them in India if the order is less than 100, they right now have a backlog of 475 which will take more than 15 years to clear even if we order tomorrow, , IAF wants the jets in 3-5 years.

 

[Sandeep]

If MRFA get scrapped then IAF launches Stealth-MMRFA for stealth jets purchases since HAL will deliver MK1-AMCA only by 2060 year...

No it won’t be that long. The AMCA prototype will be done in a few years and have its first flight. Then it will begin its testing phase and hit production just around 2032 so it won’t take that long.

 

[Anonymus]

Why get a repackaged Su-27? If we really wanted the Su-35, we could just go for the upgraded Su-30MKI instead with the AL-41 engine. Would save us a lot of money we would have to spend modifyng the Su-35 otherwise.

Oh, and maintaining a decent force balance would require medium multi-role fighters to complement light fighters (Tejas Mk 1/1A), and heavy fighters (Su-30MKI). Going for more heavy fighters would disturb that force balance. That is also why I am fairly certain the F-15EX, F-16, and Gripen have very little chance.

Su 35 rcs is much lower compare to su30mki which can't be changed + there is no medium category fighter india can induct except rafale which is unaffordable + india needs to address it urgent needs of fighter due to depleting squads and phasing out many jets by 2030 + su35 is only jets which has rafale equivalent capabilities.
And if we use same sub systems which we are using in super Sukhoi upgrade + al41 engine in su35 also then maintance cost will be reduced drastically as both these jets having same plateform and same sub systems will help in maintaince these jets at lower cost.

 

[Boomeranger]

Yes if IAF insists we can get them 2 squadrons of 4th gen Rafale and ask them to wait for 20 years to get them when some Countries fly 7th gen aircraft.

so many dembo's here do not understand that HAL MAX. manufacturing capacity is just 4 nos. Tejas jets per year! MRFA is a MUST now and F15EX is THE BEST and ONLY viable option now... Rafale F4.2 will now costs 335 millions usd per jet full lifetime ops costs with Dassault-DRAL manufacturings in India!

 

[Anonymus]

IAF is not gonna buy another kind of jet that too Russian. Because now if they don't choose Rafael, it'll be even more ridiculous. It's logistical nightmare having another kind of jet.

And iaf budget is not written in stone. Lot more ways to finance that, and no one on this page have knowledge about price. Just speculations.

Hello Bro cost, budget these are some concept which you have to learn about.
And in su35 and su 30mki if we use same sub systems then maintance cost is much less rather than operating 5 different kind of jets it's better to operate one jets in big no. Both production and maintenance cost gets reduced and easy availablity of spare parts.
You can take eg. The cars which are sold most has higher availablity of spare parts thus easy to maintain.
And we should not forget that india has years of experience in operating and maintaining of these types of jets + years of experience of integration of Indian and Israeli weapon system in su 30mki + we already have in mass no. of such weapons in operations unlike rafale which we have none these things .

 

[Boomeranger]

Do you actually have a source that backs up that 335 million USD figure other than just scaling up the old price by inflation?

old prices are all DEAD and GONE now post 2020 covid economy!! All new pricings now just see Qatar latest Rafales deal...

 

[Boomeranger]

Su75 hasn't been in produced even prototype + What's the point of buy gripen if we already make Tejas mk2 with same specs and f21 is not viable as Pakistan already operate f16 + IAF need twin engine jets in mrfa + buying new jets only increase logistics cost for iaf

If we scrap ORCA, TEDBF and MWF programs den HAL-Sukhoi can do a superfast SU75 new ver. developments using NAL-HAL-DRDO's expertise in RAM and CCM airframe parts productions with latex skin and stealth RCS reduction paints. SU75 can replace Tejas MK1A from 2055 year onwards easily..SU57 can be bought also for 5th gen. attack roles..

 

[Vijigishu ( विजिग्शु )]

In general COVID and multiple wars in the world have increased the price of everything, something called INFLATION, Buying 36 or even 50 is possible with $18Bln, problem is Dassault won’t make them in India if the order is less than 100, they right now have a backlog of 475 which will take more than 15 years to clear even if we order tomorrow, , IAF wants the jets in 3-5 years.

You're assuming too much. Iaf won't lose a war if it doesn't get mrfa in 3-5 years. No one is demanding that. Everything else I've said already.

 

[Vijigishu ( विजिग्शु )]

Hello Bro cost, budget these are some concept which you have to learn about.
And in su35 and su 30mki if we use same sub systems then maintance cost is much less rather than operating 5 different kind of jets it's better to operate one jets in big no. Both production and maintenance cost gets reduced and easy availablity of spare parts.
You can take eg. The cars which are sold most has higher availablity of spare parts thus easy to maintain.
And we should not forget that india has years of experience in operating and maintaining of these types of jets + years of experience of integration of Indian and Israeli weapon system in su 30mki + we already have in mass no. of such weapons in operations unlike rafale which we have none these things .

Bro cost and budget are some of the concepts which I learnt in my graduation and I know how big orders are financed. Su35 will have same issues of reliability, lack of operational readiness, inefficient engines and costly maintenance. As I said, russian maal is not coming, IAF is very clear on that. They won't buy another jet after buying 36 Rafaels.

 

[Pink Panther]

You're assuming too much. Iaf won't lose a war if it doesn't get mrfa in 3-5 years. No one is demanding that. Everything else I've said already.

Delivering the jets within 5 years is one of the conditions of MRFA, because they expect the squadron strength to drop to 25 squadrons in 5-10 years as they expect to retire all the old jets by that time.

 

[Pink Panther]

Su75 hasn't been in produced even prototype + What's the point of buy gripen if we already make Tejas mk2 with same specs and f21 is not viable as Pakistan already operate f16 + IAF need twin engine jets in mrfa + buying new jets only increase logistics cost for iaf

SU-75 prototype will be rolled out before Tejas MK2.

 

[Pink Panther]

old prices are all DEAD and GONE now post 2020 covid economy!! All new pricings now just see Qatar latest Rafales deal...

And we have Historically high inflation, Rafale F4.2 cost atleast $80Mln more.

 

[NSR]

Boss, that 18 billion dollar figure is very old, and comes from an old projection of the MMRCA negotiations. A figure that would be closer to reality today for 114 aircraft would be 25-28 billion USD.

Oh, and we will get almost none of the contenders at that 168 million USD price point anyways.

P.S. Didn't mean to doubt you. I was only curious.

All figures right from the stories posted here...

$8 billions for 26 Rafale-Ms means $308 millions per fighter and extra billions for 70 kms range Exocet anti-ship missile. Only God knows how it can destroy an enemy warship when they are packing about 100+ kms air and missile defenses...

France sold Mirage-2000 upgrades at about $45 millions per fighter without AESA radar or a new engine and then stuck us with billion dollar missiles named Mica.

Armament business is cutthroad one.

My question is - Lets say if PAF sends a dozen F-16s with AMRAAMs to Gwalior airbase where the Mirage-2000UPGs are stationed, and then would the commander of the base will scramble Mirages to fight them with its Micas???

I am a Bharatvasi and as frustrated as some of folks here.

 

[Anant]

Inflation+RafaleF4.2cost+India specific changes cost+cost for indian missiles integration, UAE paid close to $290Mln/F4.1.

Not by a long shot. The UAE deal was for 80 Rafales for 17.8 billion USD plus 12 helicopters for 1.2 billion USD, for a total of 19 billion. That comes to 222.5 million per aircraft, which includes a large amount of spares and weapons.

For a larger order, we wouldn't go for as many spares or weapons (on a per aircraft basis), which is why even if you add other costs, the cost of each aircraft would not cross 260-275 million USD.

 

[Anant]

old prices are all DEAD and GONE now post 2020 covid economy!! All new pricings now just see Qatar latest Rafales deal...

Qatar's original deal included massive amounts of spares and weapons, and included a token payment for their 12 options. The final deal came to some 8.3 billion dollars for 36 Rafales, which works out to some 230 million dollars per jet.

For a larger order, we would not need as many spares (proportionately), and integration of indigenous weaponry would also save costs. Essentially, the chances of the cost per aircraft going beyond 260-275 million USD are miniscule.

Including the token payment they included in their original deal, Qatar's Rafales are coming at 230 million USD per aircraft including massive amounts of spares and weapons.

 

[Anant]

All figures right from the stories posted here...

$8 billions for 26 Rafale-Ms means $308 millions per fighter and extra billions for 70 kms range Exocet anti-ship missile. Only God knows how it can destroy an enemy warship when they are packing about 100+ kms air and missile defenses...

France sold Mirage-2000 upgrades at about $45 millions per fighter without AESA radar or a new engine and then stuck us with billion dollar missiles named Mica.

Armament business is cutthroad one.

My question is - Lets say if PAF sends a dozen F-16s with AMRAAMs to Gwalior airbase where the Mirage-2000UPGs are stationed, and then would the commander of the base will scramble Mirages to fight them with its Micas???

I am a Bharatvasi and as frustrated as some of folks here.

The Rafale M is more expensive than the standard Rafale. That is already a given, and you can look at France's procurement costs for the same. Hence, the Rafale M is also costing us more than an Air Force Rafale would. Oh, and France has to restart production of some components of the Rafale M for the Indian order, which is also adding to the costs, since the French order was already completed earlier on, with those suppliers moving to other components.

Coming to the Mirage 2000 deal, I will happily agree any day of the week it was a bad deal, and we could have done very well without it.

That said, do you realise the absurdity of the question you asked? If Bhikaristan were to send F-16s over to India, they wouldn't survive long enough to reach Gwalior. Oh, and the Mirage 2000 is a strike fighter, not an interceptor. The main reason it has AAMs is in case some enemy fighter happens to engage a Mirage. Just because it doesn't have a very good AAM does not mean you can use it as an interceptor.

 

[Anant]

No it won’t be that long. The AMCA prototype will be done in a few years and have its first flight. Then it will begin its testing phase and hit production just around 2032 so it won’t take that long.

Sir, a first flight in 2028-29 will mean production will start after 2035. Aircraft certification takes 5-7 years at the least, and a stealth aircraft may well take even longer.

 

[Anant]

Rafale!!!! in which dream you are living iaf has 18 billion dollar budget uae 80 rafale of 19 billion usd with no tot and no local manufacturing if we are going to buy 114 rafale with tot and local manufacturing & maintainance facility it will cost 30+ billion usd.
Only option is of su35 it will cost half the price of rafale with almost equivalent capabilities further years of experience of integrating Indian techs and weapons on Russian platform is also added advantage & on top we didn’t required any investment for manufacturing facility and maintaince facility as we already have one for Sukhois.

That Rafale deal for the UAE was for 17.8 billion USD for 80 Rafales plus spares, weapons, logistics, etc. The remaining 1.2 billion USD came for a now-cancelled deal for 12 helicopters. That works out to 222.5 million USD per Rafale.

If we were to proceed for a larger order, the cost would not exceed 260-275 million USD almost certainly (even with local production) since we would need a fewer amounts of spares per aircraft, and because we would be able to push for indigenous weapon integration.

Oh, and if you feel the Su-35 would cost us less than 150-180 million USD each, you are mistaken quite badly.

 

[Anant]

Delivering the jets within 5 years is one of the conditions of MRFA, because they expect the squadron strength to drop to 25 squadrons in 5-10 years as they expect to retire all the old jets by that time.

Worst case scenario is for the IAF to drop to 26 squadrons by 2040. Best case scenario without MRFA is 34 squadrons by 2040, and 40 squadrons with MRFA.

 

[Anant]

Su 35 rcs is much lower compare to su30mki which can't be changed + there is no medium category fighter india can induct except rafale which is unaffordable + india needs to address it urgent needs of fighter due to depleting squads and phasing out many jets by 2030 + su35 is only jets which has rafale equivalent capabilities.
And if we use same sub systems which we are using in super Sukhoi upgrade + al41 engine in su35 also then maintance cost will be reduced drastically as both these jets having same plateform and same sub systems will help in maintaince these jets at lower cost.

1. Have a source for that RCS claim?

2. Rafale isn't unaffordable. Practically any aircraft we induct under MRFA will cost roughly the same (maybe 20-25 million USD here or there).

3. The MiG-29 is also a medium fighter, as is the Rafale.

4. Su-35 is not an equivalent to the Rafale. It is a much larger jet that is a heavy fighter. You need to maintain the force balance, and the Su-35 does not allow you to do that.

 

[Anant]

If we scrap ORCA, TEDBF and MWF programs den HAL-Sukhoi can do a superfast SU75 new ver. developments using NAL-HAL-DRDO's expertise in RAM and CCM airframe parts productions with latex skin and stealth RCS reduction paints. SU75 can replace Tejas MK1A from 2055 year onwards easily..SU57 can be bought also for 5th gen. attack roles..

Let's also dismantle other indigenous weapons projects while we are at that, shall we? We'll keep procuring foreign weaponry for the next thousand years under your plan? Sounds good? Nonsense!

 

[Pink Panther]

Not by a long shot. The UAE deal was for 80 Rafales for 17.8 billion USD plus 12 helicopters for 1.2 billion USD, for a total of 19 billion. That comes to 222.5 million per aircraft, which includes a large amount of spares and weapons.

For a larger order, we wouldn't go for as many spares or weapons (on a per aircraft basis), which is why even if you add other costs, the cost of each aircraft would not cross 260-275 million USD.

F4.2 is additional cost plus India specific changes would cost more and adjusting for inflation would take the price beyond $300Mln/ each.

 

[Sandeep]

Sir, a first flight in 2028-29 will mean production will start after 2035. Aircraft certification takes 5-7 years at the least, and a stealth aircraft may well take even longer.

No the first AMCA flight is scheduled by 2026. That’s will give them 4-6 years of testing so between 2030-2035 production will start.