Can ISRO's Rocket Engine Prowess Help in India's Pursuit of Indigenous Fighter Jet Engines?

Dr. S. Somanath, Chairman of ISRO, recently sparked a nationwide debate with his remarks on India's contrasting achievements in rocket and aircraft engine development.

While celebrating ISRO's success in building indigenous rocket engines, he highlighted the continued reliance on foreign technology for fighter jet engines, raising the question: Can ISRO's expertise bridge this gap?

Dr. Somanath emphasized ISRO's comprehensive engine development program, encompassing a wide range of propulsion systems for rockets, all designed and manufactured within India. This self-reliance stands in stark contrast to India's dependence on imported engines for its Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, which currently utilizes General Electric F404 and F414 engines.

ISRO's impressive track record includes the development of powerful cryogenic engines, a technology mastered by only a handful of nations. These engines have powered successful missions like Mangalyaan, Chandrayaan, and the upcoming Gaganyaan human spaceflight program. This mastery of complex propulsion technologies has positioned India as a leading force in space exploration.

Dr. Somanath's comments, while not an official proposal, have reignited discussions on whether ISRO could contribute to developing indigenous jet engines for military aircraft. This is a long-standing aspiration for India, aiming to reduce dependence on foreign technology and bolster its defense capabilities.

The challenges in developing high-performance jet engines are significant. These engines must withstand extreme temperatures and pressures while delivering the thrust required for supersonic flight. Despite decades of effort, India has yet to produce a jet engine that meets these demanding requirements.

However, ISRO's expertise in engine design, testing, and manufacturing could potentially be leveraged to accelerate progress. The organization's experience with advanced materials, complex combustion processes, and sophisticated control systems could prove invaluable in overcoming the technological hurdles.

Furthermore, ISRO's development of the Next-Generation Launch Vehicle (NGLV), also known as Soorya, showcases its continued push for innovation in propulsion technology. The NGLV is expected to feature cutting-edge engines for manned and heavy-lift missions, further demonstrating ISRO's capabilities.

While the direct transfer of rocket engine technology to jet engines may not be straightforward, ISRO's expertise could undoubtedly contribute to overcoming critical challenges. Whether through collaboration with existing defense research organizations or a more direct role, ISRO's involvement could potentially accelerate India's pursuit of self-reliance in fighter jet engine technology.

 

[Blademaster]

What would help is getting our own flying testbed and engine mach testing facilities!!!

 

[parimal vaikuthray Pandya]

It's ridiculous to get indigo Jet engine when government preferred to get Americans rifles neglected domestic product with opposition by the company publicly

 

[FROST]

I believe so

 

[kurtwallis wallis]

Even with ISRO's involvements, need BARE MINIMUM 10 years for Kaveri2.0 to FOC properly 100% completely.....

 

[sanket]

I have already said Several Times Brahmos Aerospace, GTRE, MIDHANI & ISRO should come together to develop Light weight material that withstands against High Temp for kaveri derivative to produce 85 kN to 90 kN

 

[ryan]

Jet Engines are inherently way more complex than Rocket Engines. Chinese have more powerful rocket engines than ISRO's but are still struggling with their WS series engines.

 

[coke]

Jet Engines are inherently way more complex than Rocket Engines. Chinese have more powerful rocket engines than ISRO's but are still struggling with their WS series engines.

Bcz those people always try reverse engineering, even france with drdo quoting 10 years time for new 110kn engine

 

[GolGappa]

Reason is Simple- ISRO & BARC directly under PMO , Remain on Priority by Govt of india. No nation was ready to share its tech in these two fields much except Russia & West put every hindrence possibl elike assasination etc All this Put massive Motivation in our scientists to Develop our own Nuclear and space program at all cost. They kept putting effort since 50 years, Kept failing kept Making.

Contrast to this look at Defence- OFB HAL DRDO GTRE BHEL etc all under MOD BABUS , Defence Remain a Key Kickback looting Organisation by the Top Most NETAS and Parties to Fund their election and lifestyle. From BOFORS by Rajiv (even got the TOT but never tried to make it in india), all govt did it. I still remmeber as a Mechanical engineer when i was thinking to give exams for IES pre-Modi days, My teachers told me that no 1 is Railway but if u really want to EARN LOT OF MULLAH but Remote area lifestyle- go to Defence Engineering services, For CIVIL it was BRO, both had massive corruption. So even the Lower level Engineers ate Defence tech companies like Termite. HAL BEL DRDO were never considered good PSUs as they said if u go to these org, u will get salary to do nothing and develop Snitary pads etc for Women and elderly as DRDO etc do everything except much in defence and Army doesnt believe in them.

BARC ISRO were always Prized post for Mechanical engineering in India. Those who really wanted to innovate and serve motherland always wanted to Join these orgs. those who cracked BARC interview were considered Genius.

Only solution is Reform in Defence PSUs , clean the environment and their Reputation. Increase the Pay of Scientist and engineers to max in the country, Provide Jobs on basis of Contract of 2 years and keep increasing it based on Performance/Innovation

 

[M S Chatterji]

Unless discipline, accountability and better talent becomes a norm for work culture, until then any brave words are pointless. As far as I know in DRDO and HAL, people operate as if a government department and working for their retirement & pension.

 

[siva saba]

People should not forget that no other country was willing share the cryogenic engine technology it was the russia in 1991 with, Isro signed a $120-million contract with Glavkosmos of Russia for seven cryogenic rocket engines and also a complete transfer of technology. US was putting brake and in fact there was sanction all became history. Russian played a big role in our cryogenic engines.

 

[Vipul Kumar]

I have already said Several Times Brahmos Aerospace, GTRE, MIDHANI & ISRO should come together to develop Light weight material that withstands against High Temp for kaveri derivative to produce 85 kN to 90 kN

Back in 2020 iit madras, bharat kalyani, drdo and isro held a meeting which was chaired by dr vk saraswat they discussed joint development of amca engine. I think they have started working together on development of amca engine.

 

[Vipul Kumar]

Even with ISRO's involvements, need BARE MINIMUM 10 years for Kaveri2.0 to FOC properly 100% completely.....

With current situation under 5 to 6 years is enough if you take a 91 to 95 kn thrust kaveri for first prototype to be under construction.

 

[swatkats_razor]

People should not forget that no other country was willing share the cryogenic engine technology it was the russia in 1991 with, Isro signed a $120-million contract with Glavkosmos of Russia for seven cryogenic rocket engines and also a complete transfer of technology. US was putting brake and in fact there was sanction all became history. Russian played a big role in our cryogenic engines.

There is an anecdote that India could have mastered the Cryogenic engine technology much earlier if we hadn't hedged our bet on the UDMH based Viking engine technology received from France in the late 1970s.
Vikram Sarabhai, was indeed promoting ISRO to research and master the semi-cryo engine a prototype of which was successfully delivered by our scientists in 1970s. Cryogenic engine technology would have been a natural evolution of that technology which ISRO. Could have mastered in 1980s. But due to the fact that UDMH based Viking (Vikas) engine was readily available and being lobbies to us by the French for cheap, focus shifted towards Vikas and we abandoned pursuit for both semi as well as fully cryogenic technologies. This later came back to haunt us in 1990s when the Vikas engine reached its design limitations and we were wanting a launcher which could launch a payload in excess of 5 tonnea to GTO.

 

[Muthu.Kumar]

Reason is Simple- ISRO & BARC directly under PMO , Remain on Priority by Govt of india. No nation was ready to share its tech in these two fields much except Russia & West put every hindrence possibl elike assasination etc All this Put massive Motivation in our scientists to Develop our own Nuclear and space program at all cost. They kept putting effort since 50 years, Kept failing kept Making.

Contrast to this look at Defence- OFB HAL DRDO GTRE BHEL etc all under MOD BABUS , Defence Remain a Key Kickback looting Organisation by the Top Most NETAS and Parties to Fund their election and lifestyle. From BOFORS by Rajiv (even got the TOT but never tried to make it in india), all govt did it. I still remmeber as a Mechanical engineer when i was thinking to give exams for IES pre-Modi days, My teachers told me that no 1 is Railway but if u really want to EARN LOT OF MULLAH but Remote area lifestyle- go to Defence Engineering services, For CIVIL it was BRO, both had massive corruption. So even the Lower level Engineers ate Defence tech companies like Termite. HAL BEL DRDO were never considered good PSUs as they said if u go to these org, u will get salary to do nothing and develop Snitary pads etc for Women and elderly as DRDO etc do everything except much in defence and Army doesnt believe in them.

BARC ISRO were always Prized post for Mechanical engineering in India. Those who really wanted to innovate and serve motherland always wanted to Join these orgs. those who cracked BARC interview were considered Genius.

Only solution is Reform in Defence PSUs , clean the environment and their Reputation. Increase the Pay of Scientist and engineers to max in the country, Provide Jobs on basis of Contract of 2 years and keep increasing it based on Performance/Innovation

// no nation was ready to share its tech in these two fields much except Russia & west put every hindrance possible like assassination etc //

NO NATION IS OBLIGATED TO SHARE ITS TECH WITH INDIA. IF INDIA'S SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS ARE INTELLECTUALLY HANDICAPPED TO MAKE HI-END PRODUCTS, STARTING FROM DESIGN, THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM OF THE OTHER NATIONS, THAT THEY HAVE TO SHARE THEIR TECHNOLOGY WITH INDIA.

India time and again keeps boasting to have IITs, IISc etc. but couldn't build one - just one - hi-tech defense product itself, from the scratch. Isn't it a shame ? What're IITs and IITs for, then ? Exporting their products - humans - to the West, while the country shamelessly begs for technology from the others ?

India always look to the others for technology and piggyback and ride on the shoulders of the West (it was USSR in the past and now it's Russia, France and USA). Doesn't this paint a bad picture that, India is incapable of doing anything on its own ?

Even now, it’s not too late. MOD should form an Industry-Academia consortium for the defense R & D (even for other departments / industries as well) consisting of the best and the brightest minds from IITs, IISc etc. and DRDO, HAL etc. They should work in tandem starting from zero, without having to look to Russia or US or France or Israel.

That’s why I keep harping (wherever online possible) that, the term “Make” In India itself is wrong. It portrays the pic that India can only “Make” but can’t innovate, research etc.

IF MOD HAS THE CONVICTION, IT CAN DO.

 

[vivek manjeshwar]

Bcz those people always try reverse engineering, even france with drdo quoting 10 years time for new 110kn engine

As per Wikipedia France has a proposed snecma M 88-4 in which the proposed wet thrust is, around 90-110Kn but feedback from a YouTuber is that it's dry thrust is same as snecma M 88-2 which powers Rafale but hot section or after burner they seek some inputs from GE as they together design engines for commercial Jets. That may be the reason why they can't assure us clean slate 110Jn engine. But GE and PW have.

 

[vivek manjeshwar]

With current situation under 5 to 6 years is enough if you take a 91 to 95 kn thrust kaveri for first prototype to be under construction.

Only if we succeed both in the field of metallurgy to reduce the weight of the engine and master after burner which only 3-4 countries are. USA being undisputed best.

 

[Muthukumar Ponnambalam]

Very true and I truly appreciate ISRO and it's commendable achievements. Looks like DRDO/HAL didn't have the expertise that ISRO did, thanks to the stalwarts of ISRO.

At the same time, why doesn't ISRO have / produce any powerful rockets than PSLV, similar to Saturn or similar? For instance, still our rocket has to rely on slingshot method to achieve escape velocity and not able to go straight in one shot, which consumes time and fuel.

Also, he talks about cryogenic engine. Are we self sustained in cryogenic engine technology ? Are our cryogenic engines any match to that of the West?

 

[crusoe rob]

ISRO should be welcomed into this effort with budgetary support from the govt.

 

[vikrant rao]

This would be the biggest mistake ISRO could ever make & damage it's single-minded focus which has led to unparalleled success in Space. It should remain focused on space based technologies & resist getting involved in the defence and commercial aeronautical sector where there are sufficient resources to get the job done! Defence and civil aerospace are extremely politicised and inefficient by nature. ISRO getting involved would lead to a Pandora's box! There is a reason NASA, Roscosmos, ESA, JSA, etc do not participate in their respective defence and civilian sectors. In the early days NASA participated in the the X flight program but neither is India the US nor is ISRO a NASA!

 

[A.K.Koul]

There should be strong contribution by ISRO technological team towards development of indigenous engines of international standards for 5th generation fighter planes in India. A dedicated team be set up for this purposes by Isro to achive indigenous engines for meeting our immediate requirements in development of such engines.

 

[Senapati]

ISRO should concentrate and focus in rocket engines.Jet engine is a different game.
Like Brahmos Aerospace it can help in jet engine program by becoming a partner in supplying critical components valves actuater nozzle.

 

[TETRA]

If political pressure doesn't exist especially that from TN merit can take over and develop these engines under the guidance of ISRO. In fact the best brains of Indian origin from West may also prefer to contribute as they are still Indians at heart working for West. Non recognition of their merit prohibits their desire to come back.

 

[INDIAN]

Jet Engine development should have been a national project ,where we can pool all the best players from ISRO, DRDO, ADA, GTRE, private industry, IITS. Plus program should be directly monitored from PMO.
All the high altitude testing facilities should be build in India, multi engine test bed aircraft to test kaveri engine all these things should be done.
But India lacks strategic culture, here we are just hand to mouth country, focusing more on politics rather than a long term plan.

 

[Kailash]

I have already said Several Times Brahmos Aerospace, GTRE, MIDHANI & ISRO should come together to develop Light weight material that withstands against High Temp for kaveri derivative to produce 85 kN to 90 kN

Easier said than done. What we have to develop is better light weight materials, alloys, new casting technology, machining tech, and a host of other things.

 

[Kailash]

Even with ISRO's involvements, need BARE MINIMUM 10 years for Kaveri2.0 to FOC properly 100% completely.....

Jet engine is about capability and we don't have it as of today. GTRE is the most qualified organization to chair such an effort. I believe in terms of certified materials available today, I am sure there will be some level of DRDO-ISRO cooperation and coordination even today - on maintaining and building such a material library.

Govt should stop bean counting and spend ten times on this problem. I doubt if ISRO will necessarily be better at managing and building consensus between different research lab, production partners, academic institution, than say DRDO/GTRE.

 

[Tera Box]

Just one curious question why didn't ISRO raised hands earlier or should I say what was kaveri team thinking they could have asked for ISROs help earlier.