GE Commits New Delivery Schedule for F404 Engines from November, Easing Tejas Mk1A Delays

Jodhpur: In a move that will provide relief to the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), American engine manufacturer General Electric (GE) has assured India of a revised delivery schedule for the crucial F404-IN20 engines that power the Tejas Mk1A aircraft.

The new schedule, set to commence in November this year, aims to address the significant delays that have hampered the delivery of these advanced fighter jets.

The commitment from GE comes after Defence Minister Rajnath Singh directly raised the issue during his recent visit to the United States. Sources indicate that GE has promised to deliver two engines per month, beginning in November.

This development is particularly crucial as the original contract between HAL and GE, signed in August 2021, stipulated the delivery of 99 engines starting in March of this year. These engines are essential for fulfilling the IAF's order of 83 Tejas Mk1A aircraft.

This development also comes at a time when the IAF is reportedly considering an additional order of 97 Tejas aircraft, highlighting the strategic importance of this indigenous fighter jet for India's air power.

The timely delivery of engines is vital for the Tejas Mk1A program, as the aircraft's design is specifically tailored to the F404-IN20 engine. The first Tejas Mk1A, LA 5033, took its maiden flight in March this year, but it was equipped with a reserve engine rather than the new F404-IN20.

Sources within the government reveal that GE had cited supply chain issues and the re-certification of new vendors as reasons for the delays. However, there have been concerns about the potential influence of other factors.

Despite the engine-related setbacks, HAL has maintained its production schedule for the Tejas Mk1A. A new production line has been established in Nashik, in addition to the existing one in Bengaluru, allowing HAL to produce a total of 24 aircraft annually.

 

[Rajesh]

If the delay is this much procuring the engine now imagine what we will have to face when the engines are for replacement for their 2 and 3 one. Which ever idiots come to power the situations r same. Why don't we consider going chinese way with (rd33- ws13) engine development or considered going for a similar deal like aravalli engine with safran m88-3 making it a condition for further rafale purchase. Meanwhile buy some used mig 29/mig29k from russia if available along with mirage 2000( considering we have these in our force).

 

[shekhar]

It's a problem of General Electric and not HAL 🙏, If India is not getting confidence from GE, then look at integrating alternatives like Safran M88 and Russian engines now instead of wasting time

 

[John George]

Buy Griffin till we get the engines, instead of wasting time

 

[Dilip_123]

It's a weak indian defence policy to tie up with the US co for the vital jet engine. US is always unreliable and GOI should realise it . India should not compromise with the policy.

 

[Swapy]

Why don't India make GE404 engine in India similar to GE414 engine. Crack a deal with GE USA to build engine factory in India. Source max component from Indian manufacturer. Keep Supply chain open.. India is developing 200+ Tejas mk1a then we should have order atleast 500 GE404 engine

 

[Sudha]

It's a problem of General Electric and not HAL 🙏, If India is not getting confidence from GE, then look at integrating alternatives like Safran M88 and Russian engines now instead of wasting time

Man! Inspite of knowing US unreliability & backstabbing it was huge mistake of HAL's management to go for an engine the manufacture of which was discontinued. A very bad decision of HAL to opt for F404 engine since HAL was the organisation which designed tejasmk1a.

 

[Sudha]

Why don't India make GE404 engine in India similar to GE414 engine. Crack a deal with GE USA to build engine factory in India. Source max component from Indian manufacturer. Keep Supply chain open.. India is developing 200+ Tejas mk1a then we should have order atleast 500 GE404 engine

Yeah make a deal & wait for the critical parts which however US will block to arm twist Bharat. What makes you think when GE (if genuinely there is supply chain problem) has an issue but Bharat won't have the same issue?

 

[Sathish Kumaram]

Need to produce the frames and keep it ready..and parallely work on risk mitigation to adapt the russian engine..so it helps to reduce the supply chain risk and sanction risk..and we can do the improvement..I think of all the organisation GTRE people were the Lazy lot or under budgeted ?..They need to learn from ISRO.when US sancitioned for the cryogenics they developed it

 

[Sudha]

Need to produce the frames and keep it ready..and parallely work on risk mitigation to adapt the russian engine..so it helps to reduce the supply chain risk and sanction risk..and we can do the improvement..I think of all the organisation GTRE people were the Lazy lot or under budgeted ?..They need to learn from ISRO.when US sancitioned for the cryogenics they developed it

Yup we make the airframes but engine isn't supplied, then what? The need for the hour is to immediately go to the design board & redesign the aero engine aspect of tejasmk1a. It will take couple of years, but we will get US out of our defence manufacturing.

 

[Akshat]

Aero engines are very difficult to master. One needs advanced alloys tech for the hot core to withstand high temperatures. Defence industry was really opened to private sector hardly a decade back. Blame the commission greed of the scamgress & not Bharatiya engineers for the low tech of India. Moreover HAL which designed the tejasmk1a went for a closed line aero engine F404, which was a huge wrong decision. As it is going for a "US" engine was a strategic error knowing very well the arm twisting tactics of US.

Bro, F404 was chosen for prototypes. And that was done in the 80s, when F404 was a flagship engine. The plane itself was supposed to be inducted by mid 90s. Mk1A is nothing but minor electronics upgrade of Mk1 jet. So changing the engine wasn't an option. IAF had rightly asked for Mk2 way back in 2005 itself but an IIT educated defence minister forced them to buy this Mk1A stuff.

 

[Akshat]

IAF chose F404 not HAL 🤦🤦🤦🤦 & Other options are not available as those are not certified for single engine

Nope. It is DRDO which chose the engine. They are always the ones who makes these decisions.

 

[Hey]

Nope. It is DRDO which chose the engine. They are always the ones who makes these decisions.

Not DRDO , ADA with IAF selected that Engine because other engines are not certified for single engine except Russian... & IAF isn't interested in Russian engines due to their maintenance & 40-30% lower life cycle compared to western engines

 

[Shrujanam Syama]

Great, more delays. Combine this with delays caused by HAL, and I think it's high time we either seriously consider buying a bunch of second-hand jets or refurbishing a bunch of retired jets from storage, with all the moral, economic, geopolitical, and political impact that may have.

What is the delays caused by HAL? Can you show one example where HAL had all parts, orders & technology but still delayed?

 

[Praveen]

Buy Griffin till we get the engines, instead of wasting time

It still uses GE F-414 engines made by backstabber USA.

 

[Akshat]

Not DRDO , ADA with IAF selected that Engine because other engines are not certified for single engine except Russian... & IAF isn't interested in Russian engines due to their maintenance & 40-30% lower life cycle compared to western engines

Bhai, ADA is a lab under DRDO. They selected it. IAF had nothing to do with it. In fact, Kaveri was selected for Tejas but it failed to come on time and hence we had to go with F404.

 

[Anant]

What is the delays caused by HAL? Can you show one example where HAL had all parts, orders & technology but still delayed?

The earlier Tejas Mk 1 aircraft after FOC was given. The engines were available, and so were other things. Those have been delivered with massive delays.

Here's another example: Last year, GE reported that engine deliveries would start in September 2024 (about a year later than originally planned). Even after that, HAL promised delivery of the first Tejas Mk 1A by the end of March this year. That would mean they had everything needed for atleast that first Mk 1A. Has it been delivered yet? Nope.

 

[John George]

It still uses GE F-414 engines made by backstabber USA.

You did not read properly. I said use GE414 till then get some other fighter jets as we are already behind schedule. What do you mean who are you? Be polite

 

[abhinav srivastava]

If ever you get a chance to ramp up the production , they will make you dance to their tunes. Atmanirbharta in tech should not be a mere buzzword.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Put the Kaveri engine on Tejas, cancel these orders. There is war cannot expect anyone to supply weapons except ourselves. Trust the Kaveri and do not waste time.

Some work is still needs to be done on kaveri. Need more thrust from the engine to meet requirements.

 

[Bijaya Kumar Sahu]

GE is saying 404 engine has no takers, so supply chain stopped... amazing... Is HAL not aware of this? Can 414 engine be fitted in MK1A? Such a nice fighter jet, but whole schedule gone for a toss.

 

[Bijaya Kumar Sahu]

Yup we make the airframes but engine isn't supplied, then what? The need for the hour is to immediately go to the design board & redesign the aero engine aspect of tejasmk1a. It will take couple of years, but we will get US out of our defence manufacturing.

I think keeping all system ready except engine is a nicer idea as the engines come at 6 or 10 at a time and can be fitted in a month. This will have minimal impact on schedule.

 

[Praveen]

You did not read properly. I said use GE414 till then get some other fighter jets as we are already behind schedule. What do you mean who are you? Be polite

Ok sir, earlier versions of the Gripen is using the f-404 engine with total ToT and it's manufactured by SAAB locally. But Gripen E/F is using the engine from f-414 bought directly from GE. Even the aircraft is currently fully being tested and only 8 of them are sent to Brazil. If US wants India not have any engines and new fighters other than F-15EX, F/A-18E/F, and F-16s then they are currently doing it. As long as US orders it's NATO members not to supply India with anything, then other countries won't supply. You should know about the French Mistral class amphibious assault ships deal with Russia back then. At that time Russia is not in war with Ukraine. But still it happens. Oh by the way according to US logic they can consult Russian engineers from Yakovlev who developed Yak-141 for the structural issues of the much touted F-35 but after getting the support they will backstab Russia. This happens over and over again. They actually did the same for India also. I don't care much about the politics but it should never interfere with national security. From the looks of it US has reached to interfere even into the national security of India.

 

[Ankit Singhal]

India should take break from tejas project now. America has become global villain. We should procure another 36 rafale immediately without condition and plan to modify tejas to use other engine. Also we should start thinking going with 114 Rafale & SU-57 with Russia. Because Russia is our true friend & France is frenemy of America...

 

[SK]

Let's be realistic, this armtwisting by USA is either to force India to buy Additional US Equipment especially F-16 as MMRCA or to delay the development of Indian Aerospace & defence industry.

Tejas-Mk1's project holds the possibility to develop Indian Aerospace industry to the same level as Non-Western Allies like Japan as well as make the MRFA project redundant.

There is No other option for India apart from preserving this situation.

 

[Anuj]

There should be serious penalty for GE or renegotiate to get this manufacturing line moved to India. It was very careless attitude from Indian govt, ADA, HAL and Army to not consider this aspect. We should never trust US. No new large deals should be signed unless this is fixed.

 

[Taus Melek]

I bet there are no such delays if the engines were ordered by USA military for their needs. And this is only 2 engines. I would understand if there was a delay for delivery if say 200 engines, but only?!

 

[Balaji Krishna]

Dependency on US is like shaking hands with a devil. They will never allow India to have an upper hand in anything. I wish India was self reliant in engine technology

 

[Shiva]

India is persuing policies to prolong lifetime of existing to accomodate additional time for products based on F-xxx based engines.
GE is finding reasons to prolong supply of F-xxx engines with a hope for additional orders for US imports.
It is very clear from this that, US is using GE as strategic tool and involved in lobbying activities.
India, still not started any efforts, to find an alternative engines for the products as a replacement in case of shortage of these engines.
India is too slow in its dynamism to counter the lobbying tactics US is playing with.

 

[beencensured]

Some work is still needs to be done on kaveri. Need more thrust from the engine to meet requirements.

Plenty of thrust as currently gef404 are rated for 78kn, which means in tropical climates 10% less thrust so even 73kn kaveri flat rated wet thrust would do good with higher wet thrust 80kn then much better. India has not received gef404in20 version and perhaps never will. Government must Put kaveri on plane test it, tejas and other aircraft have ejection seat as time cannot be wasted, Government must stop playing game as sounds of war blow hard and practical mind is lacking. America may allow targeting by Ukraine of Russian sites with long range missile which will lead to a very hot war which will engulf entire Europe.

 

[Strongman]

HAL and the Govt should not embarrass themselves by offering tejas plane for export until they have a engine solution for their local needs first. Mark my words, Brazil will not buy this LCA and anyone that thinks differently needs a realignment of their brain neuropaths......its America's back yard........just like Argentina. America plays a long game, power play is not played by petty politicians and politics, that is run buy the military industrial complex. Don't forget the biggest importer of Indian defense goods is also US. they control the inflow and out flow for India. India is baby in this game of geopolitics. HAL is way too late, hopefully they along with Bhramos can do the afterburner for Kaveri.......that is the only longshot chance.
Also the production planning needs new project managers........or it will always be a shoddy show.