GE F414 Leading Race for HAL HLFT-42 Engine Search, but Indigenous 110kN Promises Superior AMCA Training

GE F414 Leading Race for HAL HLFT-42 Engine Search, but Indigenous 110kN Promises Superior AMCA Training


Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has formally begun its search for an engine to power the Hindustan Lead-in Fighter Trainer (HLFT-42). This next-generation supersonic trainer aircraft is crucial for preparing Indian Air Force pilots to operate advanced combat aircraft.

On March 17, 2025, HAL issued a Request for Information (RFI) to international engine manufacturers, outlining the need for an engine producing 95-100 kilonewtons (kN) of thrust and possessing a total technical lifespan of 6,000 hours. An RFI is a standard preliminary step to gather information from potential suppliers before making a procurement decision.

Currently, the General Electric F414 engine appears to be the primary contender. However, discussions around HAL's own 110kN engine, which is under development for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), introduce the possibility of using the same engine for both aircraft. Such a decision could significantly enhance the HLFT-42's effectiveness in training pilots specifically for the AMCA.

The HLFT-42, first displayed as a scale model at Aero India 2023, is designed to bridge the gap between basic flight trainers and sophisticated frontline fighter jets like the Tejas Mk2 and the upcoming AMCA. The aircraft is planned to have a maximum takeoff weight of 16.5 tons, achieve speeds up to Mach 1.8 (1.8 times the speed of sound), and operate at altitudes up to 60,000 feet.

It will feature advanced systems including Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar for superior target detection, Infrared Search and Track (IRST) for passively detecting heat signatures, and Fly-by-Wire (FBW) controls for enhanced maneuverability. These features will allow it to simulate the flying experience of 4.5- and 5th-generation fighter aircraft. Furthermore, with a payload capacity of 4.5 tons and 11 points for attaching weapons or pods, the HLFT-42 could also serve a secondary combat function, making it a versatile asset for India's air defence.

The specified thrust range of 95-100 kN in the RFI underscores the HLFT-42's need for a powerful engine. Unlike conventional trainers that often focus on stability and fuel economy, the HLFT-42 must be capable of high-performance maneuvers similar to those in actual combat, while still ensuring the safety and reliability essential for training. This requirement for a balanced performance profile makes the choice of engine particularly critical.

The General Electric F414 engine, which can produce up to 98 kN of thrust, closely matches HAL's stated needs. It is a well-established engine, already chosen for India's Tejas Mk2 fighter. This existing relationship offers benefits such as familiarity for technicians, an established supply network, and a thrust capability that fits the HLFT-42's requirements.

The F414 is also used in international aircraft like the American F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and South Korea’s KF-21 Boramae, highlighting its dependability in demanding roles. Selecting the F414 could simplify logistics and training for HAL, building on India’s existing infrastructure for the engine, which includes plans for local manufacturing following a June 2023 agreement with GE Aerospace.

However, selecting the F414 is not without potential drawbacks. While it meets the minimum thrust requirement, there are concerns it might not provide the surplus power needed for the HLFT-42’s comprehensive training goals, especially for simulating advanced capabilities of the AMCA, such as supercruise (sustained supersonic flight without afterburners) and high-altitude performance.

Additionally, the previous agreement for the Tejas Mk2’s F414 engines did not include a full transfer of intellectual property rights (IPR), as confirmed by HAL in May 2024. This limits India’s ability to independently modify or upgrade the engine, a restriction that could also apply if the F414 is chosen for the HLFT-42.

An alternative is the indigenous 110kN engine, which is set to be developed by India’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) with a foreign partner, potentially Safran from France or Rolls-Royce from the UK, for the AMCA program. This engine, designed specifically for India’s fifth-generation stealth fighter, is expected to deliver 75 kN of dry thrust (without afterburners) and over 110 kN of wet thrust (with afterburners).

It is being engineered for supercruise capability and effective operation in India's typically hot and humid climate. Although this engine is not expected to be ready until the mid-2030s, it presents an attractive option for the HLFT-42 by enabling engine commonality with the AMCA.

The AMCA is not planned to have a twin-seat trainer version, primarily due to its stealth design and the associated costs. Consequently, the Indian Air Force will depend on sophisticated simulators and advanced lead-in trainers like the HLFT-42 to prepare its pilots.

Equipping the HLFT-42 with the AMCA’s 110kN engine would allow trainee pilots to experience flight characteristics nearly identical to the AMCA, which is vital for mastering its advanced features like supercruise, stealth, and integrated sensor systems.

Using the same engine for both aircraft would also streamline maintenance, spare parts management, and overall logistics, offering a significant strategic benefit for a fleet intended to be in service until the 2060s.

Trainer aircraft often require more engine thrust than the combat jets they support. This is because they must safely handle low-speed flight for new pilots while also being capable of simulating high-performance combat scenarios for advanced trainees. The HLFT-42's role in mimicking fifth-generation fighters makes this need for higher thrust even more pronounced.

A 110kN engine could offer the necessary power margin to replicate AMCA-specific flight conditions, such as sustained supersonic flight without using afterburners. It would also provide scope for future upgrades, including potential integration with unmanned systems like the CATS Warrior drone.

Choosing the indigenous 110kN engine does involve risks. Its development schedule is considerably behind that of the HLFT-42, potentially delaying the trainer's introduction beyond the early 2030s.

In contrast, the F414 engine is readily available, which would allow HAL to proceed more quickly with a prototype using its own funds and components from the Tejas program, as is currently planned.

Cost is another important consideration; the advanced technology of the AMCA engine could lead to higher expenses, while the F414 benefits from an established production line, making it a more cost-effective option in the short term.
 
For HLFT-42, initially go for F414 as we are already going to have an assembly plant in India. Don't delay such projects for future engines.
 
If the IAF deems the Hawks somehow unsuitable for pilot training due to the induction of 5th Gen fighters, then they can simply adopt more Tejas MK-2 trainers for advanced training rather than developing another completely different aircraft in low numbers. Yeah, a delta wing trainer would be a novelty, but it's a better jugaad than spending resources on a whole new jet trainer.

Also, HAL should concentrate on what's at hand and in demand from services rather than going after their own pet projects that have no demand from services and foreign customers.
 
It's doubtful whether there will be funds to do this program if true. The specs speak of a fighter trainer that seems to have all the attributes of the LCA or better in many ways. It's not going to be cheap as well. The only thing that inspires confidence in HAL is that the airframe has been proven and designed long ago, but trying to make a FBW controlled fighter derived from a conventional fighter design requires many changes to the airframe so that the center of lift is ahead of the center of gravity. The airframe was designed many years ago as an optimum stable fighter.

China designed the JF-17 with a pitch-only FBW system. Today, all three axes are FBW on the JF-17, increasing its agility from the basic model. Extensive Russian help was sought while designing it as well, just like Russian Kamov expertise designed the Chinese attack Heli.

How many fighter designs are we going to make? LCA Mk2, TEDBF, AMCA, now HLFT-42? On top of that, there is a 20 bill$ MRFA?
 
What kind of circus is going on HAL. Shoudnt the head of the organisation be concentrating on the issues at hand rather than pet projects.
 
If the IAF deems the Hawks somehow unsuitable for pilot training due to the induction of 5th Gen fighters, then they can simply adopt more Tejas MK-2 trainers for advanced training rather than developing another completely different aircraft in low numbers. Yeah, a delta wing trainer would be a novelty, but it's a better jugaad than spending resources on a whole new jet trainer.

Also, HAL should concentrate on what's at hand and in demand from services rather than going after their own pet projects that have no demand from services and foreign customers.
Exactly. That's how I feel about Tejas MK2 and TEDBF. MK2 is 15 years late. It's a 5th gen era now. They should just focus on AMCA & Naval variant. They can make prototypes of MK2 or TEDBF for testing but no production needed.

Now people on here are starting to realize why 5th gen is key. Everyone has advanced SAM systems. Pak will most likely upgrade a lot of their own SAM systems now. In future it will only get harder and harder to deploy 4th gen planes in a contested airspace.
 
AMCA will have 120kN & not 110kN.
AMCA Mk 1 is going to use GE F-414 engine with a thrust of 98 kN. The total thrust is 196 kN as it is going to be a double-engine jet. There are going to be at least 40 in number (2 squadrons). After that, AMCA Mk 2 is going to have engines with a thrust of 120 kN, which means the total thrust is 240 kN. Around 5 squadrons of Mk 2 will be ordered, that is, around 90 aircraft. So, the total number of AMCA which will be ordered is 130 aircraft, i.e., 7 squadrons.
 
If the IAF deems the Hawks somehow unsuitable for pilot training due to the induction of 5th Gen fighters, then they can simply adopt more Tejas MK-2 trainers for advanced training rather than developing another completely different aircraft in low numbers. Yeah, a delta wing trainer would be a novelty, but it's a better jugaad than spending resources on a whole new jet trainer.

Also, HAL should concentrate on what's at hand and in demand from services rather than going after their own pet projects that have no demand from services and foreign customers.
I don't agree with you. Both aircraft are different by design, so they are going to have different capabilities, which means different roles, therefore, different doctrines of warfare. And I don't think IAF can properly train pilots for such scenarios, with just 'Jugaad'. I don't know the technicalities fully and someone else may be better qualified for this, but there must be a plausible reason why IAF is asking for a different class of trainer altogether. Not gonna argue whether HAL should do this or that, I have no interest in defending HAL.
 
First, they have to rollout Tejas Mk1A and the Tejas Mk2 in 2025 and start delivering from 2025 at least. The program is now delayed longer than two decades.

ADA, IAF, HAL, DRDO, and MoD are responsible here and must take this in "mission mode" or then accept that MRFA is the replacement for MiGs, Jaguar, and Mirage 2000.

The Kargil conflict, Pulwama-Balakot, and following attacks, and now Pahalgam attacks needed an Indian jet to replace MiG-21, Jaguar, and Mirage 2000. It would have been a different narrative then and a test for our indigenous jet too in real-time.

Hopefully, the next air battle or war has Tejas in it and with full capability against JF-17 and J-10C.
 
If the IAF deems the Hawks somehow unsuitable for pilot training due to the induction of 5th Gen fighters, then they can simply adopt more Tejas MK-2 trainers for advanced training rather than developing another completely different aircraft in low numbers. Yeah, a delta wing trainer would be a novelty, but it's a better jugaad than spending resources on a whole new jet trainer.

Also, HAL should concentrate on what's at hand and in demand from services rather than going after their own pet projects that have no demand from services and foreign customers.
The Hawks aren't being deemed unsuitable. The fact is that the Hawk fleet is aging, and some of the oldest airframes will come up for retirement in the next decade. As such, with the HJT-36 being a sheer unmitigated disaster and an excellent example of how not to manage a project, the HLFT-42 becomes necessary for next-generation pilot training.

In theory, you could use a Tejas Mk 2 for the role, but like you said, delta-wing trainers are generally not preferred due to the difficulty of handling them at low speeds. Even today, the Mirage 2000 or Tejas or Rafale trainers are used as conversion trainers rather than advanced trainers. That is, the largest chunk of their job is to make a trained pilot familiar with the type rather than inculcating new skills in pilots.

The Kiran fleet is on the verge of retirement, the Sitara / Yashas is a disaster, and the Hawks are aging. That means there is a developing gap for an intermediate and an advanced trainer. Assuming we can salvage something from the HJT-36 program, that handles the intermediate trainer.
 
It would make more sense to just use the F414 engine as it’s doubtful we can use the AMCA engine which will be tailored specifically for the AMCA jet which will have different engine parts, components, shape, technology, electrical, pipes etc. We can’t just copy and paste all of that on the HLFT-42 as its entire setup, fuselage, shape, parts and technology is not designed to be a 5th generation stealth fighter so we can’t use it.

This jet is meant to be used as a trainer/fighter and as we are already going to manufacture the F414 engine with 80% technology transfer and manufacturing 80% of it indigenously then it will be better to use a cheaper, good, reliable engine instead of trying to fit a highly advanced and expensive 5th generation engine on a jet that’s designed as a 4.5th generation at best.
 
AMCA Mk 1 is going to use GE F-414 engine with a thrust of 98 kN. The total thrust is 196 kN as it is going to be a double-engine jet. There are going to be at least 40 in number (2 squadrons). After that, AMCA Mk 2 is going to have engines with a thrust of 120 kN, which means the total thrust is 240 kN. Around 5 squadrons of Mk 2 will be ordered, that is, around 90 aircraft. So, the total number of AMCA which will be ordered is 130 aircraft, i.e., 7 squadrons.
These types of advanced jets are unlikely to be used in small-scale wars. The strategic landscape has completely changed—today’s focus is on having fewer squadrons but highly capable and efficient fighters. While India may officially have 31 squadrons on paper, in reality, only around 15-20 are fully operational and combat-effective, primarily consisting of Raffales and Su-30s and MiG-29. Out of these, only the 36 Raffale jets are equipped with BVR (Beyond Visual Range) missiles capable of hitting targets beyond 150 km in actual combat scenarios.
 
Why are we going to develop such an underpowered 110kN engine in future for our most advanced jet? The current generation PW-F135 engine produces 125kN only in dry thrust and reaches 190kN with afterburners. Where is the engine that is going to be developed by us with the help of a foreign partner that will produce only 110-120kN with full afterburner?
 
The Hawks aren't being deemed unsuitable. The fact is that the Hawk fleet is aging, and some of the oldest airframes will come up for retirement in the next decade. As such, with the HJT-36 being a sheer unmitigated disaster and an excellent example of how not to manage a project, the HLFT-42 becomes necessary for next-generation pilot training.

In theory, you could use a Tejas Mk 2 for the role, but like you said, delta-wing trainers are generally not preferred due to the difficulty of handling them at low speeds. Even today, the Mirage 2000 or Tejas or Rafale trainers are used as conversion trainers rather than advanced trainers. That is, the largest chunk of their job is to make a trained pilot familiar with the type rather than inculcating new skills in pilots.

The Kiran fleet is on the verge of retirement, the Sitara / Yashas is a disaster, and the Hawks are aging. That means there is a developing gap for an intermediate and an advanced trainer. Assuming we can salvage something from the HJT-36 program, that handles the intermediate trainer.
Do you agree with such advanced specification of training jet? Why do we want a trainer whose per hour flying cost is more than Tejas Mk2 and has a similar procurement cost? I believe HAL should focus on a training jet similar to the T-7, which costs less in procurement as well as during flying and performs decently in combat when needed (not a primary goal).
 
Exactly. That's how I feel about Tejas MK2 and TEDBF. MK2 is 15 years late. It's a 5th gen era now. They should just focus on AMCA & Naval variant. They can make prototypes of MK2 or TEDBF for testing but no production needed.

Now people on here are starting to realize why 5th gen is key. Everyone has advanced SAM systems. Pak will most likely upgrade a lot of their own SAM systems now. In future it will only get harder and harder to deploy 4th gen planes in a contested airspace.
Let us be realistic. Yes 5th and 6th gens are the future of modern Combat. But they can be deployed in limited numbers only due to their high cost and maintenance. Meanwhile 4th gens are cheaper to manufacture in mass scale. So, during an all out war, it will easier and quicker to produce and field 4th gens compared to 5th or 6th gens. This is the reason why countries like USA and China still have a huge number of 4th gen still running in their arsenal along with limited number of 5th gens.
 
Redesign it, why such a big KN engine for a trainer?
Because, it's a supersonic trainer, and we won't be making any twin-seat variant for Tejas Mk2 and AMCA, as twin-seaters are very costly to make. All the training would be done on this HLFT. It would have the exact controls like Tejas Mk2 and AMCA.
 
Do you agree with such advanced specification of training jet? Why do we want a trainer whose per hour flying cost is more than Tejas Mk2 and has a similar procurement cost? I believe HAL should focus on a training jet similar to the T-7, which costs less in procurement as well as during flying and performs decently in combat when needed (not a primary goal).
Where exactly did you get the projected flying costs of the Tejas Mk 2 and HLFT-42 to make that comparison, exactly?

Thr HLFT-42 will almost certainly be cheaper than a fighter, both in terms of procurement and in terms of operation.
 
Where exactly did you get the projected flying costs of the Tejas Mk 2 and HLFT-42 to make that comparison, exactly?

Thr HLFT-42 will almost certainly be cheaper than a fighter, both in terms of procurement and in terms of operation.
With 110 kN engine, AESA radar, IRST and all the bells and whistles of a 4.5 gen jet, I don't think it will cost $20 million; it will at least cross $60 million.
 
Considering the recent experience relying on foreign vendors come with a lot of risk. Better work on Kaveri and make this compatible with it.
 

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