GTRE Confirms Full Know-How for 5th-Gen Engine Production, But AMCA Requires Foreign Collaboration on 6th-Gen Engine

In a significant declaration for India's indigenous defence capabilities, the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) has confirmed it possesses the complete technical knowledge to develop and produce a fifth-generation fighter jet engine.

However, with no immediate demand from the Indian Air Force (IAF), the agency is directing its resources towards a more advanced, collaborative project to create a sixth-generation engine for the upcoming Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

An official from the Bengaluru-based GTRE, a key laboratory of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), stated that the expertise gained over decades, particularly from the Kaveri engine project, has provided a solid foundation.

The Kaveri program, though it did not culminate in an engine for India's Tejas fighter, proved to be an invaluable technology demonstrator, maturing the country's capabilities in material science, thermodynamic modelling, and complex turbine design.

"We are in a position to develop a full-fledged fifth-generation fighter jet engine entirely in the country," a senior GTRE official announced.

He projected that if a demand were placed, a fully operational engine could be delivered within a decade, thanks to mastery over critical technologies like single-crystal turbine blades and advanced cooling systems, which are essential for the high performance and durability required by modern combat aircraft.

Despite this readiness, there is currently no formal requirement from the IAF for a new fifth-generation engine.

The nation's current and near-future fighter fleet, including the Tejas Mk1A and the upcoming Tejas Mk2, will be powered by American engines—the GE F404 and the more powerful GE F414, respectively.

Also, a deal with US-based GE Aerospace for the domestic production of F414 engines with significant technology transfer is in its final stages.

Consequently, GTRE has strategically pivoted towards the future, focusing on co-developing a sixth-generation engine for the AMCA program. This next-generation stealth fighter, expected to enter production in the early 2030s, requires a cutting-edge propulsion system.

This joint development will be pursued with an international partner, with France's Safran and the UK's Rolls-Royce being the primary contenders. The goal is to create a scalable and powerful engine to support the AMCA throughout its operational life.

The international collaboration is expected to provide India with access to niche and futuristic technologies critical for air combat superiority.

These include adaptive cycle engines, which can dynamically alter their bypass ratios for optimal fuel efficiency during cruise and high thrust during combat, as well as enhanced stealth characteristics to reduce infrared signatures.

This partnership model is aimed at leapfrogging a generation of technology and positioning the Indian defence sector at the forefront of aerospace innovation.

While the immediate focus has shifted, the proven capability to produce a fifth-generation engine provides India with crucial strategic autonomy.

This ensures that the nation can reduce its dependence on foreign imports for military hardware and has the option to revive the indigenous engine program if future geopolitical or strategic needs dictate a change in course.

This underlying strength bolsters India's long-term security and self-reliance in the critical field of defence technology.

 

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[vinod nair]

Co-development should be in Indian public-private partnership.

 

[A.K.Koul]

It is very heartening to know that GTRE has developed capabilities to develop independently within the country 5th-generation engines and also 6th-generation engines for future fighters of India. These capabilities shall absolve dependency on foreign suppliers of 5th- and 6th-generation engines for modern fighters for the country. Our salute to GTRE engineers and workers, management, and the scientific community there for making India self-sufficient in this crucial and critical technology.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

It is good to target high KN engines. We should develop a 110 KN engine with Snecma and a 145 KN engine, which can be upgraded further to (~200 KN), with RR. An additional $3 billion will be recovered from savings and the use of this tech in other programs. The 145 KN engine can also be used in SU-30 MKI, AMCA Mk2, and 6th gen jets. We have seen how co-development of Barak-8 helped us.

GTRE should take up ~90-95 KN engine development, which can be used in Tejas Mk1A for mid-life upgrades. Also, GTRE and Indian private and public companies should focus on multiple engines like 10, 15, 20, 25, 35, and 40 KN engines.

The smaller engines can be used for drones/UAVs, trainer jets, and regional/business jets. We can use some of these engines in Dornier, Saras (if it happens), C-295, etc.

Once we start producing multiple engines, the economy of scale will bring down the costs further. We will also have a good talent pool and industrial base ready.

 

[P.K Senapati]

Once Kaveri AB version with 80-plus kN is ready, we will not need the GE404 engine for Tejas Mk1. Similarly, with this experience, the Kaveri core can be improved to give 95 kN thrust. After that, we will not need the GE414 for Tejas Mk2 and AMCA. We have to think of a futuristic 6th generation fighter and its engine of around 140 kN thrust for a future sixth-generation fighter. That needs to be co-developed involving DRDO and private companies.

 

[itsajhaa]

If you can make it in India, either IAF doesn't trust you or you ain't able to convince the govt of your capability. In both cases its futile to boast.

 

[Vishwanath Vijay Thomre]

If we can possess knowledge for 5th gen why GTRE is not concentrating to have own engine for Tejas. AMCA is future at present we are literally struggling to get Tejas and its varients flying. What a shame and absolute stupid comment that we have GE 404 and 414 for Tejas. What are we doing to have our own engines for Tejas, Tejas will be the backbone if we achieve the engine for Tejas and replace the 404 and 414 within 2-3 years down the line. Kind request please work on Kaveri for Tejas first.

 

[Dranzer Knight]

Nowadays they do nothing but make big statements I mean seriously we haven’t even developed a proper working 4th generation engine and they talk about having the technology to develop a 5th generation if they really have that kind of technology then why not first show the capability to develop a proper 4th generation engine for Tejas MK1A🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

 

[Madan]

They can make fifth Generation engine but can't produce engine for MK I and MK II both fourth Generation jets. They too have started boasting like HAL. There is News that HAL has received second 404. It hasn't delivered an aircraft for the engine it received in Mar 25. So they keep talking and produce nothing. Why can't they start production for AMCA engine now , so that it is ready at an early date.

 

[Vishwanath Vijay Thomre]

Government and MoD has to really look for alternate options a true private player like L&T, TASL, Adani, Reliance, Godrej or any new with potential. Full control like HAL where they are responsible for complete manufacture of jets. This will really make the work fast and have a real competation in the market. RIght now HAL is enjoying autonomous brand with no output.
Once GE starts rolling engines lets see how they are effeciently delevering the jets.​

 

[Gaon ke chhoro]

Nowadays they do nothing but make big statements I mean seriously we haven’t even developed a proper working 4th generation engine and they talk about having the technology to develop a 5th generation if they really have that kind of technology then why not first show the capability to develop a proper 4th generation engine for Tejas MK1A🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

I think you missed the part about no demand from IAF. At the end of the day everything needs funding and time. Otherwise the know-how can't be used.

While the Kaveri engine was discontinued from the Tejas program the GTRE continued to use it's internal funding to slowly develop the various tech over the years. With no funding and no more scrutiny they possibly did it at their own pace and kept evolving the Kaveri core to the extent they could without having to resort to an altogether new core since they didn't have any funding. It's a fact that concepts like single crystal blade and ceramic coating for the hot core was developed in this intervening period of more thana decade since the program was discontinued.

Today they feel they are ready with all the core technical know-how to do a better job than what they did in the first iteration. However unless the GoI puts a fresh bet on them (invests money afresh) which in turn is dependent on IAF agreeing to spend from their budget for a fully Indian built engine for one of their upcoming fighters, or even the Tejas, the GTRE can do little but to bide for time.

 

[Dranzer Knight]

I think you missed the part about no demand from IAF. At the end of the day everything needs funding and time. Otherwise the know-how can't be used.

While the Kaveri engine was discontinued from the Tejas program the GTRE continued to use it's internal funding to slowly develop the various tech over the years. With no funding and no more scrutiny they possibly did it at their own pace and kept evolving the Kaveri core to the extent they could without having to resort to an altogether new core since they didn't have any funding. It's a fact that concepts like single crystal blade and ceramic coating for the hot core was developed in this intervening period of more thana decade since the program was discontinued.

Today they feel they are ready with all the core technical know-how to do a better job than what they did in the first iteration. However unless the GoI puts a fresh bet on them (invests money afresh) which in turn is dependent on IAF agreeing to spend from their budget for a fully Indian built engine for one of their upcoming fighters, or even the Tejas, the GTRE can do little but to bide for time.

Good thing to point out but that’s the problem at first we were looking for partners for a 5th generation engine but since everyone was advancing towards the 6th generation engine and technology they decided to drop the 5th generation and it happened recently so if we take that then GTRE had 3-4 years in hand to approach IAF and propose a 5th generation engine if they had the capability but they didn’t and recently the decision to go for a 6th generation engine was made and let’s not forget we don’t even have state of the art high altitude test facility or the flying testbed which was also one of the main reasons why Kaveri took so much time and still didn’t succeed because we have to go to Russia for all the testing all the time

 

[tron]

Fantastic that GTRE has the knowledge to build a 5th gen engine. However, knowledge on paper is one thing, manufacturing/production is quite another. Now they're looking at a collab for 6th gen. Might be a good idea to build a 5th gen prototype while they're at it for the 6th gen.

 

[bks78]

GTRE confidence awesome 👌. They knew 5th generation engine technology. 4th generation Kaveri engine took 30 years to develop. For 6th generation either Japanese engine or Rolls-Royce fit in the criteria.