GTRE Indicates Rolls-Royce as Frontrunner in Race for AMCA Jet's 110kN Engine, Complete Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) a Key Factor

The Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) is in advanced talks with Rolls-Royce and Safran for the co-development of a powerful 110kN engine destined to power India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), a fifth-generation fighter jet. A GTRE official has revealed that a decision on the chosen vendor is imminent, with recommendations soon to be submitted to the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the Ministry of Defence (MoD).

While both companies are strong contenders, Rolls-Royce appears to have the edge due to its comprehensive engine roadmap and, crucially, its offer to transfer complete Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) to GTRE. This would grant India full autonomy over the engine's design and technology, a significant advantage for future development and modification. In contrast, Safran has proposed only partial IPR transfer, potentially limiting India's control over the technology.

Both companies have committed to establishing production facilities in India and assisting with engine testing, a critical step in the development process. However, the GTRE official hinted that Rolls-Royce's offer of complete IPR transfer is a major factor in their current preference. This aligns with India's increasing focus on self-reliance in defence technology and its desire to become a major player in the global aerospace industry.

The final decision, however, rests with the MoD, which will need to weigh strategic and geopolitical considerations alongside the technological merits of each proposal. The selection of the engine partner is a crucial step in the AMCA program, as the new 110kN engine will be vital for the fighter jet's performance, influencing its speed, maneuverability, and endurance.

The AMCA program is a flagship project for India's defence industry, aiming to develop a cutting-edge fighter jet with advanced capabilities including stealth technology, supercruise, and network-centric warfare capabilities. The successful development of the AMCA will significantly enhance the IAF's operational strength and contribute to India's indigenous defence capabilities.

It is important to note that while the GTRE official indicated a preference for Rolls-Royce, the MoD will make the final decision. Factors such as cost, technology transfer, and geopolitical implications will all play a role in the final selection. The decision is expected to be announced soon and will have a significant impact on the future of India's aerospace industry.

 

[DNA57]

They will make same mistake by choosing UK based Rolls Royce… just like US based GE made big promises but under Biden term, they didn’t deliver anything!! Similarly UK political discourse becoming hostile towards India, they will not let Rolls Royce to deliver anything….
Better choose France …. They have independent policies (out of US influence)…

You may be right, you may be wrong... France too did not fulfill the commitment in case of Safran and Dassault. In any case, after paying such a hefty amount, clear IPR is a must.

 

[Rinku Pandey]

Rolls Royce only promises to betray... look how they delayed and sabotaged the Kaveri Engine...

Plus Labour Partys animus towards India they will Not Allow India to get 100% TOT. Safran is the beat bet with Russia as a backup.

Conservatives were in power when Kaveri was sabotaged. Conservatives were in power from 2010 to 2024.

 

[Krishnendu Chatterjee]

I would say go with Rolls Royce. They were the principal partner for the Eurojet engine, besides having wider experience. RR can also help us with marine gas turbine engines for future carriers, destroyers, cargo ships, etc. But the best course would be to invest that much fund and time into a domestic consortium. GTRE should not be the principal developer.

 

[Krishnendu Chatterjee]

You may be right, you may be wrong... France too did not fulfill the commitment in case of Safran and Dassault. In any case, after paying such a hefty amount, clear IPR is a must.

Yes. Moreover, Macron will not stay in power forever. There is no way out but for self-reliance. Involve the private sector. Incentivize start-ups.

 

[Sandeep]

India should just make a deal with Safran as they are the preferred partner. We get a better and reliable partner, 100% of the technology, manufacture 100% indigenously and with indigenous raw materials.

The USA and UK have a very close relationship and the USA can put pressure on the UK to stop or delay designing or developing an engine with us. We can’t buy a USA engine as they won’t give 100% of the technology and they can arm twist us or delay engine supplies as a result.

 

[Krishnendu Chatterjee]

Ever seen the engine on Mirage? 🤣 They made a 95-100kn engine way back in the 1960-70s... and just see how much lighter the French engines are compared to its competitors... be factually correct at least.

Mirage 2000, the most powerful in the series, has a Snecma M-53 P2 engine with a measly thrust of 63 kN.

 

[sishir]

Yes, geopolitical considerations have to be taken. But this is changing quite rapidly. So as soon as you get the signature and start the process, it would be better for India. Dragging the matter will not solve anything. Based on your reporting, Rolls Royce is suited, then let's start if the parameters of the engines satisfy IAF.

 

[Terminator]

INDIA should rope in the Russian offer of AL41 & AL51 series engines, then see all other players bow their heads in front of us. I think for AMCA, the Russian engine with full TOT is a better option.

 

[Preet]

You may be right, you may be wrong... France too did not fulfill the commitment in case of Safran and Dassault. In any case, after paying such a hefty amount, clear IPR is a must.

What commitment did France not fulfill? India didn't opt for Kaveri help as an offset offer if that's what you are referring to!

 

[tlsmani]

Seems like the Indian MoD is arranging a 10-year interval 4th Gen Fighter World Cup (MRFA) 😂

I fully agree with the engine part though.

Go for affordable & tot supplier collaborater

 

[Preet]

No need for either. Focus should be on Atmanirbharta. Develop Kaveri 2.0, 3.0. We have great scientists in Bharat. With proper funding and with the help of the Pvt sector like Adani, we can surely achieve a 6th-gen engine. Employ senior engineers from GE, RR, Safran & PW on double the salaries. China didn't have the expertise to land fighters on aircraft carriers, but they employed retired fighter pilots from the US and UK on quadruple the salaries.

I think we missed that bus long ago. For the last 14 years, Kaveri hasn't been funded. We have failed at making a 4th gen 80kN engine. To make a 5th gen 110kN engine on the same size engine as Kaveri sounds next to impossible for India alone to do. If we start now, it would take at least another 10-15 years and by then 6th gen engine demand would arise. The adaptive cycle technology would come in.

So it's not prudent to develop it on our own now. We better seek a foreign partner for Hot Core section development. We need to catapult in technology; the time to crawl has passed. China crawled, walked, and now is trying to run, but they are working on engines since 1960-70s consistently.

 

[Akash Vashisth]

What I can see is the US will tell RR to delay the design or put a fault in the designing phase. They can also delay the testing process of the engine.

By no means is India getting the engine by 2035. Only expect the engine to be ready by 2040.

 

[PKPRS]

Put pressure on Safran for complete Tot and get the deal signed. It is better for us this way.

Safran is notorious for charging license fee for-their engines.

 

[PKPRS]

They will make same mistake by choosing UK based Rolls Royce… just like US based GE made big promises but under Biden term, they didn’t deliver anything!! Similarly UK political discourse becoming hostile towards India, they will not let Rolls Royce to deliver anything….
Better choose France …. They have independent policies (out of US influence)…

The UK has given full freedom in many of their products in the past; RR is the best option for us.

 

[Chitra]

No need to go without full TOT (Transfer of Technology). Both entities should co-develop the engine here in India, with production in India itself, till we meet our own requirements first. Then outside production can be set up. If Safran is adamant in not fully transferring technology, we can ignore them completely. With RR, India can develop its own machine. But it's better not to delay now. Build timelines and timeframes for rollout. Else it will be a case of Russia walking out of the 5th gen aircraft.

 

[VKP]

Basically, GRTE failed to develop even a basic engine and it's leaking what it doesn't know.

 

[kumar]

Safran and Dassault are clowns. They haven't even put in sincere efforts to substantiate the offset clauses in the Rafale deal.

I don't understand why some fanbois are going gaga over the French when it's clearly evident that they do not wish to play ball.

The other option is RR of the UK. And we don't want to get entangled with an undeclared Islamic country now, do we? GE of the US is, of course, a non-starter.

We don't have many options when it comes to engines. We don't want another F404 engine saga now, do we?

 

[kumar]

Saffron and GE are playing to U.S tune to be honest..

And what is your opinion about RR of UK?

 

[beencensured]

Ever seen the engine on Mirage? 🤣 They made a 95-100kn engine way back in the 1960-70s... and just see how much lighter the French engines are compared to its competitors... be factually correct at least.

The Snecma M-53 P2 engine is very inefficient. It weighs over 1500 kg, has low thrust-to-weight ratios, lower fuel efficiency, and allows for 500 kg less payload compared with the GE F414, which has higher wet thrust. This engine is unfit for modern aircraft.

Yes, India has the technology to better such engines. I have said several times, if you want to lower the thrust-to-weight ratio and go with less efficient engines, then we can also build those. Side-by-side, we can go for sixth-generation technology, but it takes compromise based on the technology we have currently. India can easily make those types of engines if it compromises. Though it is important to give scientists and engineers all the tools to make a flying testbed and proper testing facilities and try to get to sixth-generation technology, we can have a B team making engines based on the current technology we have.

Efficiency is important, but not the only thing. Having an engine is more important than not having one, so compromise is important, which is non-existent with the IAF and MOD. From compromise, a learning curve is developed.

There was a Japanese analysis of flight characteristics of one of the fighter planes escorting bombers of China which stated that Chinese jets do not have the range they claim to have. Obviously, China is not using the most efficient engines.

 

[dunla52]

In my opinion we should not be very dependent on Safran in most of the military procurement. The IAF and Indian bureaucrats must not allow them tied up to these two foreign military contractors all the time. I have read many articles regarding this AMCA Jet's 110kN Engine partner in collaboration with GTRE is very much points to Rolls Royce and their offer compared with Safran seems too good to resist. In my observation Rolls Royce has a longer years of experience in producing advanced technology aircraft engines. I am hoping very much that with internal hank pinky the decision makers will be swayed to choose Safran instead. The way I look at it Safran is confident that the Indians are loaded and can easily milk them in choosing their products even though their offer has been very stringent to their favour. The IAF, GTRE and Indian bureaucrats must diversify their military procurements. I hope the GTRE and the bureaucrats will pick Rolls Royce as the partner in AMCA Jet's 110kN Engine production.

Why are we throwing more money on foreign partners instead of mounting current Kaveri on fighter so we know how good it works?

 

[Andy]

Also, select another engine for the second order of 97 Tejas Mk1As. Will only require minor modification. By the time HAL makes 20-25, it will be ready to go. Then the rest can be made simultaneously.

 

[nivas9531]

There were news in only media that the AMCA Jet's 110kN Engine partner in collaboration with GTRE will be announced during the Aero India 2025. But, as usual it is always just hot air and it will take ages before coming to decision making. This is the common practice of Indian bureaucrats and the Indian defence industry's top management executives. This is the reason why India lags behind china, turkey and even Korea far behind due to poor planning, delayed jdecision making and moving in snail pace progress. This has been the case with Tejas's from it's first flight till now and it's follow up variants. I always wondered do these executives in defence industries and the bureaucrats ever take a good at china's progress by leaps and bounds and feel the disparity in IAF fighter squadrons, advanced technology fighter aircrafts and growing numbers compared with china.

What is the bjp government doing since ten years those useless officers are sitting in the position. This is all bullshit, bjp government it self make adds instead of giving approvals, permissions and funds, stupid people thought that every thing in the diffence sector independent but tragedy is that , every single diffence organisation is totally controlled by MOD so entire responsibility is on the government which is now ruling by bjp since 11 years

 

[P.K Senapati]

For the new 110kN engine of AMCA, we need a reliable partner. We need total TOT and IPR and the right to change and increase local content. Whether Safran or RR, anyone agreeing to do this is acceptable.

 

[Dipak]

The other option is RR of the UK. And we don't want to get entangled with an undeclared Islamic country now, do we? GE of the US is, of course, a non-starter.

We don't have many options when it comes to engines. We don't want another F404 engine saga now, do we?

What is the guarantee that RR, being English, will not kowtow to the US and evade ToT terms subsequently, and leave us stranded with JF-20s flying stealthily above our heads for 7 years from 2027 to 2034? The West was never a reliable partner, especially as we did not kowtow to their line on Ukraine. They have no sympathy for India even if we align with them economically and politically. Even then, Trump is thinking of dumping Ukraine, so what can India expect? Ukraine lost everything and destroyed itself with its NATO dream, lured in by the West. It became the scapegoat for the US to damage Putin's Russia.

We should not have left the SU-57 program in 2018, it was a blunder. I guess we'll end up paying more now. Waiting for RR's cash outflow to judge our SU-57 exit decision.

 

[kumar]

What is the guarantee that RR, being English, will not kowtow to the US and evade ToT terms subsequently, and leave us stranded with JF-20s flying stealthily above our heads for 7 years from 2027 to 2034? The West was never a reliable partner, especially as we did not kowtow to their line on Ukraine. They have no sympathy for India even if we align with them economically and politically. Even then, Trump is thinking of dumping Ukraine, so what can India expect? Ukraine lost everything and destroyed itself with its NATO dream, lured in by the West. It became the scapegoat for the US to damage Putin's Russia.

We should not have left the SU-57 program in 2018, it was a blunder. I guess we'll end up paying more now. Waiting for RR's cash outflow to judge our SU-57 exit decision.

That is one of the reasons why we can't go with RR. We can't invest billions of dollars with RR and be at the mercy of the UK or whoever is controlling the UK. Geopolitically speaking, France, with its independent foreign policy, has been a reliable partner unlike most western countries.