HAL Allocates Rs 6,000 Crore in Development of IMRH and UHM Helicopter Programs

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), India's leading aerospace and defence company, has announced substantial investments in two critical helicopter development programs as part of its Q4 FY2023-24 earnings report.

A significant portion of the budget, Rs 4,000 crore, has been allocated to the Indian Multi-Role Helicopter (IMRH) program. The IMRH is designed as a versatile platform capable of fulfilling a wide range of military missions, including troop transport, combat search and rescue, and reconnaissance.

The development of the IMRH is seen as a crucial step towards reducing India's reliance on foreign helicopters and replacing the aging Mi-17 helicopter fleet. The IMRH is expected to equip the Indian Armed Forces with a state-of-the-art, domestically produced multi-role helicopter.

Additionally, HAL has committed Rs 2,000 crore to the Utility Helicopter Marine (UHM) program. Based on the ALH-Dhruv platform, the UHM is tailored to meet the specific needs of the Indian Navy and Coast Guard.

This maritime helicopter is likely to be deployed for tasks such as maritime patrol, surveillance, search and rescue at sea, and logistical support for offshore operations.

Both the IMRH and UHM are in advanced stages of development, with prototypes undergoing testing and evaluation. The IMRH is projected to be a 13-ton class helicopter, while the UHM is expected to be a 5.5-ton class platform.

Successful completion of these programs could significantly impact India's aerospace industry, potentially boosting exports and fostering technology transfer agreements with other nations.

 

[Akshat]

What you are so sure about, no one from the sources said a thing about funds released way earlier that you are claiming...
Then again release of funds means basically mk-2 is way more costlier than AMCA & TEDBF...
About hal chief saying he says a lot is everything he says is going fine way or there are lot of revised timelines we all know what happens in reality!! So according to you Tejas mk-2 getting funds again can you project how much we are spending on this program??

As per official sources it is 9000 crores so far (including the latest grant by CCS in 2022).

Well if he says something and it is not done means he (or his entity) has delayed, no? That's the very definition of a delay, right?

 

[Aloo]

I sent you the exact lines. Could have just used 'Find on page' option.

As for armed forces and DRDO, here is the thing. Officially, Armed forces are supposed to give requirements, then run the trials and tell the MoD when the item passes the trials. Beyond that they can do more, but are not obliged to. So they are doing what they are obliged to. You can blame them for not going beyond their duty, of course.

But DRDO and DPSUs have been officially blamed for not doing their job itself. Read the CAG reports. They lied to MoD about their projects. They literally submitted fake success reports where the product failed to meet the critical requirements, and then started new projects to meet the remaining requirements. So officially the forces are blamed for not buying the original product when it never met the critical requirements. And even for those failed products they overshot the time and budget. So they are not doing the minimum they are supposed to do. And they hog all the budget MoD has without delivering. Hence the disappointment is much bigger.

CAG website shows defence audits only till 2017, don't know if this happens only with me.

Regarding Kaveri, I tried search and Kaveri appered only 4 times and it did not had any word on fund sanction. But I think I should leave this topic as it will only drag.

As for DRDO, I am disappointed only for products which have completed development trials, that's why I never cry for LUH. I once had an argument with you only because you were sounding like "Army does not do user trial". But this one is sorted here.

Lol, at least I reached agreement with you on one topic.

Finally my belief is our military should induct the weapons to develop which we have alloted tax payer money. From now on give it to private, no problem but induct them. They qualify most of the parameters, other militaries also compromise to support indigenous MIC. Just like Rafale does not have ARM, maybe not asked by IAF but very important and we still inducted it. We can show same indigenous ones.

Bye. ✌✌✌✌

 

[Akshat]

CAG website shows defence audits only till 2017, don't know if this happens only with me.

Regarding Kaveri, I tried search and Kaveri appered only 4 times and it did not had any word on fund sanction. But I think I should leave this topic as it will only drag.

As for DRDO, I am disappointed only for products which have completed development trials, that's why I never cry for LUH. I once had an argument with you only because you were sounding like "Army does not do user trial". But this one is sorted here.

Lol, at least I reached agreement with you on one topic.

Finally my belief is our military should induct the weapons to develop which we have alloted tax payer money. From now on give it to private, no problem but induct them. They qualify most of the parameters, other militaries also compromise to support indigenous MIC. Just like Rafale does not have ARM, maybe not asked by IAF but very important and we still inducted it. We can show same indigenous ones.

Bye. ✌✌✌✌

Our armed forces do give massive concessions to indigenous items bro. Look at Tapas. Military only asked for 20 hours of flying time. You can look but no MALE drone in the world flies for less than 24 hours. It's not Long Endurance below 24 hours.

And yes military should induct platforms for which taxpayer money is given. But should they induct platforms which don't meet even the critical requirements? CAG report mentioned a towed sonar to be developed by DRDO. DRDO submitted a success report when the sonar didn't work in active or passive mode. Which other mode is even there? And that was after going overbudget and beyond deadline.

Or should they induct them when it hampers their operational capabilities? Army had stated clearly in the requirements of towed howitzers that the howitzer should be compatible with existing trucks. Is that an unfair demand? But DRDO threw the QRs in the bin and made an 18 ton gun. Now army is forced to spend extra money for new trucks. MoD won't give them extra money, which has led to only 300 guns being procured. And these guns can only be used in bases where the new trucks are present during war time, which will ruin their operational capabilities. Who should be blamed here buddy? Sometimes it literally seems that DRDO is actively working to make sure military can't induct indigenous weapons.

 

[Anurag]

As per official sources it is 9000 crores so far (including the latest grant by CCS in 2022).

Well if he says something and it is not done means he (or his entity) has delayed, no? That's the very definition of a delay, right?

So basically total fund is 9000crores only so why blaming the company while recent fund just just approved in 2022, their is a lot of things that need to be changed first specially a better coordination between the hal, IAF and MoD while as previously as you said all three branches of same tree still they have lack of communication between them! As I know in gov backed or owned organisation their is lot of things going on specially the file culture that needs rotation and signature of every individual and then it just eat dust for the time until it's just urgency in the matter

 

[Aloo]

Our armed forces do give massive concessions to indigenous items bro. Look at Tapas. Military only asked for 20 hours of flying time. You can look but no MALE drone in the world flies for less than 24 hours. It's not Long Endurance below 24 hours.

And yes military should induct platforms for which taxpayer money is given. But should they induct platforms which don't meet even the critical requirements? CAG report mentioned a towed sonar to be developed by DRDO. DRDO submitted a success report when the sonar didn't work in active or passive mode. Which other mode is even there? And that was after going overbudget and beyond deadline.

Or should they induct them when it hampers their operational capabilities? Army had stated clearly in the requirements of towed howitzers that the howitzer should be compatible with existing trucks. Is that an unfair demand? But DRDO threw the QRs in the bin and made an 18 ton gun. Now army is forced to spend extra money for new trucks. MoD won't give them extra money, which has led to only 300 guns being procured. And these guns can only be used in bases where the new trucks are present during war time, which will ruin their operational capabilities. Who should be blamed here buddy? Sometimes it literally seems that DRDO is actively working to make sure military can't induct indigenous weapons.

I am not talking about failed or in development projects like sonar or MPATGM. But I do believe military should induct indigenous ones even when they fall short off on some parameters. Coz Indian industry is doing it for first time and in first try the best I expect from them is catch up. In drone industry, Iran, Turkey & China did same and improved over time.

Main thing is there is no need to deploy such things as frontline equipment, use them to develop tactics and send feedback. They already use much inferior Searcher and old Heron, so Rustom1 & Tapas can be used in that role. The main job can be done by Drishti & MQ9 n meantime. Indigenous industry ki handholding to karni padegi na.

Jaise you don't belive DRDO advertised numbers, I also dont belive Elbit or Turkish advertised numbers. Rotax website itself mentions their engine altitude much below claimed by Elbit.

Finally problem mujhe ATAGS se nahi, but agar wo nahi liya to Bharat-52 kyu nahi liya isse hai. I don't buy argument ki MoD ne force kiya without some convincing proof. And why Dhruvastra/Helina orders are not given after completing trials or SAAW for SU-30. (In short buy indigenous when available and trials completed/ buy foreign where no options like Tankers, K9, MRFA, Subs, MPATGM, MANPADS, Cruise missile, etc)

Regarding delay and overbudgeting appropriate actions should be taken based on existing rules (or make them if they are not). Consequences should be exemplary but targeted to specific people not generic on organization. And this is my last reply on this thread ,but I will surely read yours. (*_*)

 

[Akshat]

I am not talking about failed or in development projects like sonar or MPATGM. But I do believe military should induct indigenous ones even when they fall short off on some parameters. Coz Indian industry is doing it for first time and in first try the best I expect from them is catch up. In drone industry, Iran, Turkey & China did same and improved over time.

Main thing is there is no need to deploy such things as frontline equipment, use them to develop tactics and send feedback. They already use much inferior Searcher and old Heron, so Rustom1 & Tapas can be used in that role. The main job can be done by Drishti & MQ9 n meantime. Indigenous industry ki handholding to karni padegi na.

Jaise you don't belive DRDO advertised numbers, I also dont belive Elbit or Turkish advertised numbers. Rotax website itself mentions their engine altitude much below claimed by Elbit.

Finally problem mujhe ATAGS se nahi, but agar wo nahi liya to Bharat-52 kyu nahi liya isse hai. I don't buy argument ki MoD ne force kiya without some convincing proof. And why Dhruvastra/Helina orders are not given after completing trials or SAAW for SU-30. (In short buy indigenous when available and trials completed/ buy foreign where no options like Tankers, K9, MRFA, Subs, MPATGM, MANPADS, Cruise missile, etc)

Regarding delay and overbudgeting appropriate actions should be taken based on existing rules (or make them if they are not). Consequences should be exemplary but targeted to specific people not generic on organization. And this is my last reply on this thread ,but I will surely read yours. (*_*)

There is convincing proof buddy. The product didn't meet RFP requirements. But they bought brand new trucks and reduced the numbers. These trucks are not required for anything other than ATAGS, which confirms that ATAGS is guaranteed. So either the military is a saint and is buying desi equipment at inflated prices or MoD forced them. Can you think of any other reason?

Dhruvastra/Helina have received AoN. Now the deal is sitting with MoD. Army is a part of those negotiations but the main negotiations happen between Department of acquisition or something in MoD and the vendor. So Army's role is limited now.

Regarding using Tapas and all for tactics and stuff. Is there any evidence that Tapas can be procured and operated at similar costs when compared to Heron or other 'inferior' products? In fact, Heron drones do offer the performance that IAF/IA have asked for. Also, do you think MoD will provide them with extra budget to buy both? And will they allow them to buy foreign products after the inferior desi one is available and inducted? We are already seeing it happen with Tejas. IAF was promised MRFA but now they are being forced to buy more Mk1A which is not adequate at all.

Now regarding punishment and solutions. Thing is, no government can accept that such a thing happened. No one can say that a government department under MoD lied to it and failed in a project. Bad optics. But they are already implemented changes. For example, 25% of DRDO budget is now reserved for private companies. DRDO is undergoing changes anyways under pressure from P MO.

And regarding chnages in Armed forces, they started even earlier. Like the import ban list.

So yeah. Changes are happening. But they will take time.

 

[Akshat]

So basically total fund is 9000crores only so why blaming the company while recent fund just just approved in 2022, their is a lot of things that need to be changed first specially a better coordination between the hal, IAF and MoD while as previously as you said all three branches of same tree still they have lack of communication between them! As I know in gov backed or owned organisation their is lot of things going on specially the file culture that needs rotation and signature of every individual and then it just eat dust for the time until it's just urgency in the matter

Why blame the company? Because the company asked for some 2500 crores of funds which were sanctioned way back. This is proven by HAL chief's statement, PIB records and also old news articles. (An article by Ajai Shukla says that the funds were approved as far back as 2009) Now couple that with the HAL chief's claim, it will be crystal clear that all approvals and funds were available well before Jan 2021. Otherwise he couldn't have promised to deliver the jet by 2022, because he himself said it takes 36 months to make the jet after final order for prototype is placed, which includes payment and final designs. So any delays beyond that are squarely on HAL. The funds approved after that are extra money, which MoD gave after earlier funds were flushed down the drain.