HAL Awaits IAF's Nod to Kickstart Feasibility Studies on Indigenous MTA Program

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is making a bold move by advocating for the indigenous development of a Medium Transport Aircraft (MTA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF). This proposal comes amidst stiff competition from international aerospace giants like Lockheed Martin, Embraer, and Airbus, who have also submitted bids for the project.

HAL, awaiting the IAF's decision on the desired cargo-carrying capacity for the MTA, is ready to conduct feasibility studies through its Kanpur division once this crucial information is received. The company's strategic approach involves potential licensing agreements with established players for discontinued or stalled transport aircraft designs, aiming to provide the IAF with viable options within a shorter timeframe.

HAL is confident in India's existing infrastructure to support the MTA program, asserting that avionics and engines can be readily sourced for a locally designed aircraft, pending approval from the IAF and the Ministry of Defence (MoD).

While HAL's proposal presents a compelling indigenous solution, several key questions remain. The IAF's final decision on the required cargo capacity and its willingness to embrace a domestically developed aircraft are pivotal factors. Moreover, the success of HAL's plan depends on securing suitable licensing agreements and effectively integrating them with existing capabilities.

This development underscores HAL's determination to play a significant role in India's aerospace industry and its commitment to providing the IAF with a tailored solution to meet its medium transport needs. The coming months will be crucial in determining the path the IAF chooses for its MTA program, with HAL's proposal adding a compelling dimension to the decision-making process.

 

[Akshat]

when I say 'we', I mean India. No company whether public or private, large or small, has experience of building an aircraft in the same class as C390 or A400. Not even close. The largest transport aircraft 'we' have built is dornier, and that too is a license built version based on foreign design.

Everything has to be done for the first time, right? Tata is in fact working on C295 and first deliveries are expected soon. The project, if developed in India, will start after the first deliveries are done in about 2 years. And Tata (and few others) are already making parts for the planes. So yeah, it will be difficult, but it should be given a shot.

 

[Akshat]

Normally, consortium is formed by different stakeholders coming together for a profitable business model.The government or stakeholders can obviously choose who they want to work with. BRICS is an existing platform with immense capabilities in aerospace engineering hence the mention but it is upto the government to choose their partners and business model. A consortium will help in expanding the business and the product portfolio, reduce costs while increasing the customer base

As I said, consortium idea is fine. I am just not sure if BRICS is the right platform. South Africa has little expertise in aerospace programs. No one wants to engage with Russia anymore. And India won't buy from China and vice versa. In fact, I doubt even Russia would be ok buying much from any of these countries as that would dent their own market and reputation. So defense products would be completely out of scope for any such consortium. Just Brazil and India can reciprocate in this scenario.

 

[Pramkumar]

A welcome Development. Let immediate need to be met with imports, while HAL/ADA to develop the MTA and same need to transferred for civilian use of Regional transport aircraft in 60-90 passenger catagory.

 

[desigandu]

Good goal, but given the long lead times unrealistic at least now…

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

HAL should keep this hands and mind out of MTA project let these 3 competitors have a fight for the order...

Too many projects in hand can ruin everything.

GOI should start a project with TASL , HAL + Foreign company who wins MTA tender to make a new plane to replace IL-76 planes.. As it will take time to execute a big project like this , we have a requirement of around 20 Heavy category transport aircraft + the order book can increase in future if we make a refueller , AWACS on this platform

By 2040 we need to replace all IL-76 and this category of plane around 50-60 tonnes can replace the IL-76 , IL-78 and complement C-17.

 

[beencensured]

I really don't think India can build an Indigenous MTA yet. We dont even have a small indigenous transport aircraft yet. We build dorniers but those are based on foreign design.

100% they should build as they have composite technology that would make the plane light and economically profitable. India must leverage its talents/capabilities develop the country. We should not look at regressive who do not want to stem the brain drain that is giving trillions of dollars of loss to the economy. India must develop and kick whoever says no to development. If China can do , India can do better.

 

[beencensured]

the first one was assembled by HAL in 1961. I dont think we should even discuss that. It is as if saying that a company which builds buses can build sports cars since Bus is larger than a sports car. Aircrafts of 1950s and 60s cant be compared to something like C390 or A400.

HAL have windfall of money they can hire talent and do. They can partner with local industries and do,. They have already key technology and making 4.5 generation plane that key technology to make modern transports is composites. Plane size is not the issue as 4.5 generational fighter aircraft have much more rigor to make.

 

[beencensured]

Let HAL handle projects like mk1a, luh, etc properly. Then let them plan for MTA. They are not able to deliver on time, but they want to do everything.

You are saying they have loads of money, and They should sit on their tuffet and twiddle their thumbs. They should make efforts to develop the country, inferiority complex should not say no. We have trillions of dollars of loss to economy thanks to brain drain because of no development of this country. Certainly, agriculture will not make India a developed country and being world's largest country by population we will have to invest in every aspect to develop our population. I will say they should invest as India has composite technology and can make more efficient planes, and easier to develop then 4.5 generational planes. .

 

[beencensured]

we have no expertise for building such a large aircraft in a class of C390 or A400 indigenously. It took us 20 years for the Tejas, and we already had experience of license building fighter aircraft from before.

Who are you to say we have no capability to make. We have composites and making 4.5 generation fighter jets. Leveraging that technology we can make more efficient planes. Transport aircraft do not have higher standards of fighter jets. It is shameless that people do not want to develop. They work for arm lobbyist and want India always to have a brain drain and loss to economy. HAL has windfall of money coming to it and must leverage the talents of country partner with private and develop the country.

 

[beencensured]

when I say 'we', I mean India. No company whether public or private, large or small, has experience of building an aircraft in the same class as C390 or A400. Not even close. The largest transport aircraft 'we' have built is dornier, and that too is a license built version based on foreign design.

Does what you say matter. China built, America built first did have before thy first built. We have composites. . Without effort, your argument sit on tuffet fiddle your thumbs and do not development. Your argument have no fact are shameless and irrational. They represent Arm Lobbyist,

 

[Pink Panther]

the first one was assembled by HAL in 1961. I dont think we should even discuss that. It is as if saying that a company which builds buses can build sports cars since Bus is larger than a sports car. Aircrafts of 1950s and 60s cant be compared to something like C390 or A400.

No what I am just saying is that they have already built a big transport jet, now they have experience building 4.5 fighter jet, India has gone a long way in Aero dynamics, wind tunnel testing and shaping, making composites, flight computer, Avionics, components and radars for different jets, all the past experience can easily amalgamated into a transport jet, it is no big deal, only thing we lack is suitable powerful engines which we could easily import, there is no big difference between HAL and Embraer, infact we will use more indigenous content in the transport jet that we make than what Embraer can, we have all the tech

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

If HAL is allowed to initiate MTA project, it will become another retirement projects for HAL managers and employees.

HAL marut success in limited time , HAL Helicopter fleet ( ALH , LCH , LUH ) success , HAL Tejas success , now HAL is just an integrator...

Though I feel HAL shouldn't go for this project but always criticising someone doesn't make him good.

 

[Prit]

India needs to develop its own indigenous plane but it will take at least 10-15 years to develop it even under the private sector. The current An 32 planes are old and if we were going to develop an indigenous plane to replace them then it’s a bit late if they have to start replacing them this decade.

The easiest and quickest option is to make a deal with Ukraine to buy their An 70 transport plane which meets the requirements that we want. We are more likely to get a higher amount of technology transfer, local production and indigenous content as Ukraine needs the money for their war and they are sitting on the blueprints where they can’t make it themselves as their defence and heavy industries are destroyed.

The idea of An70 is good one. It'll be interesting what happens in Ukraine when PM visits it.

 

[Deepak Hegde]

HAL marut success in limited time , HAL Helicopter fleet ( ALH , LCH , LUH ) success , HAL Tejas success , now HAL is just an integrator...

Though I feel HAL shouldn't go for this project but always criticising someone doesn't make him good.

No once criticizes HAL for the sake of it. HAL has earned it by its past record of poor performance, no respect for timelines or deliverables and lack of for respect for taxpayers money

 

[abhinav srivastava]

We have a huge market for cargo and civilian aircrafts. HAL should carve out another division with desi pvt companies as partners. Let them design military and civilian aircrafts with high number of common parts. Pvt co can also contribute in marketing and setting up modern production lines and assembling.
GoI should provide them a loan of 70-80% of requirements. GoI should ensure that the amount spent on R&D, setting up new plant and interest on loan is reimbursed on successful completion of the project around given time lines. Given it will be a challenging project, timelines should not be too tight, specifications should not come from moon and provision for relaxation in timelines in case of ~20-25% delay in developing the product. In case the product is further delayed then tax rebates, loan interest etc should be denied.

 

[ramdas]

It appears that HAL is becoming increasingly involved in all sorts of projects. Their expanding involvement might lead to complications with the existing projects.

 

[PKPRS]

we have no expertise for building such a large aircraft in a class of C390 or A400 indigenously. It took us 20 years for the Tejas, and we already had experience of license building fighter aircraft from before.

Now a days there are so many softwares that can draw you pictures and produce the specs for you, all you need to do is do wind tunnel testing to fine tune the body for Aero dynamics, and then evey thing else that goes on the body and into the plane we already have tech.

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

No once criticizes HAL for the sake of it. HAL has earned it by its past record of poor performance, no respect for timelines or deliverables and lack of for respect for taxpayers money

Poor performance in what sector actually , they have done a great job in the field of helicopters with a limited budget.

There is a huge deal difference between Series production and limited series production, I really don't know people don't understand it... they don't see other programme of Dassault, LM , Boeing or not ?
Literally every information is available on internet.

And when it comes to taxpayers money they have made the world best Light combat aircraft way better than Griphen C-D , JF-17 , T-50 , Yak and also to mention it is cheaper than western counterparts..

I don't see your comments talking about Boeing misses it timeline of F-15EX by 2 years , boeing misses its Trainer timeline by 2 years , LM misses its delivery timeline to its allies by 12-16 months..

Comeon buddy , If you really want to start a conversation put some facts...

 

[PKPRS]

They do design the planes as well. That in itself is a big thing for HAL. And they manufacture it. That's something HAL can't seem to do either.

We do to, Tejas MK1, Tejas MK2, TEDBF, AMCA, Dhruv, LCH, LUH, IMRH, Arjun MK2, Zorawar and etc., are not designs for you, the picture you see above is not a design, do you think Raunak, Kunde drew this picture himself.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Now a days there are so many softwares that can draw you pictures and produce the specs for you, all you need to do is do wind tunnel testing to fine tune the body for Aero dynamics, and then evey thing else that goes on the body and into the plane we already have tech.

Dude, building and designing aircrafts of any kind today is more expensive than ever. Just look at how much is the cost of F35 program.

 

[kumar]

You are saying they have loads of money, and They should sit on their tuffet and twiddle their thumbs. They should make efforts to develop the country, inferiority complex should not say no. We have trillions of dollars of loss to economy thanks to brain drain because of no development of this country. Certainly, agriculture will not make India a developed country and being world's largest country by population we will have to invest in every aspect to develop our population. I will say they should invest as India has composite technology and can make more efficient planes, and easier to develop then 4.5 generational planes. .

Airbus has smelled bl@@d and coming to India with H145, but LUH is nowhere to be found. That is civilian version of LUH. Even Russians have re-engined ka226t and trying to enter Indian market but LUH is no where to be found. For a change, why can't HAL be proactive and preempt these efforts with LUH. And this is constructive criticism unlike HAL haters here, mind u. Mk1a was supposed to be delivered by March end, but not done. Agreed, that our armed forces are not far behind HAL in messing up procurements, but HAL should have avoided those last minute changes if it screws up procurement timeline like this. They should not agree for those changes from armed forces. Planning is one thing but execution is different thing. Other countries take shortcuts/risks in testing and certification(whatever that means in countries like turkey or russia), but we need to stick to our timelines atleast when we have nieghbours like p@kis or ch@nese and our entire procurement system is screwed up like this.

 

[Alok Gupta]

Here we go again. HAL sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. IAF can kiss good buy to the MTA for another 15 years or longer. HAL has it's hands full with LCA, Dhruv, LCH and other helicopter programs. They are also working on the AMCA and TEDBF! Only a few thechnologies can be pilfered from the LCA into the MTA. These are two totally different concepts.

 

[Alok Gupta]

The biggest transport Aircraft HAL built is Hawker Siddeley HS 748, HAL could stretch that design to make a Turboprop Transport Aircraft in the MTA size, it is much bigger than Dornier, so they have experience, they just need to choose the right engine, they could use Avionics and components from other local jet programs, so they can if they wanted to.

That is a very optimistic view. But I highly doubt HAL's capabilities.

 

[Pink Panther]

That is a very optimistic view. But I highly doubt HAL's capabilities.

only thing bad about them is their slow work, all GOVT organizations are like that, MOD should take some efforts to shakeup HAL bit and do a complete reorg and install Management professionals to run the Organization.

 

[Akshat]

We do to, Tejas MK1, Tejas MK2, TEDBF, AMCA, Dhruv, LCH, LUH, IMRH, Arjun MK2, Zorawar and etc., are not designs for you, the picture you see above is not a design, do you think Raunak, Kunde drew this picture himself.

When did Arjun and Zorawar start flying?

 

[PKPRS]

When did Arjun and Zorawar start flying?

They are India’s products and India designed them.

 

[Rajsn]

Please NOT HAL.
They can not even Deliver what they have contracts for.
HAL will single handedly destroy India .
Can not trust HAL with more things.
They need to Focus amd supply what contracts they already have.

 

[Rajsn]

HAL marut success in limited time , HAL Helicopter fleet ( ALH , LCH , LUH ) success , HAL Tejas success , now HAL is just an integrator...

Though I feel HAL shouldn't go for this project but always criticising someone doesn't make him good.

It's not someone.
It's INDIAN TAXPAYERS MONEY !!!

 

[Akshat]

They are India’s products and India designed them.

We were talking about HAL and planes. They are neither planes not HAL products.

 

[PKPRS]

We were talking about HAL and planes. They are neither planes not HAL products.

You talked design and India in general, HAL doesn’t design, it is ADA/DRDO in both cases including tanks.