How Turkey's Order of 100 F404 Engines Could Boost India's Tejas Mk1A Deliveries

Turkey's recent move to procure 100 F404 engines for its Hurjet light fighter jet has significant implications for India's Tejas Mk1A program.

As both aircraft rely on the same engine family, the increased demand from Turkey could potentially expedite GE Aerospace's production expansion, ultimately benefiting India by ensuring a more steady supply of F404 engines for its Tejas fleet.

India's Tejas Mk1A program has been facing delays partly due to challenges in securing its share of F404 engines amidst a global surge in demand. While the Tejas Mk1A's F404-GE-IN20 variant is the highest thrust model in the family, the overall increase in F404 orders creates pressure on GE Aerospace's production capacity.

However, the Turkish order, along with other international demands like the T-7A Red Hawk and continued Korean T-50 orders, is driving GE Aerospace to ramp up F404 production. This renewed interest in the F404 engine family, once nearing obsolescence, presents a silver lining for India.

As GE Aerospace expands its capacity to meet global demand, India could see a more reliable supply of engines for its Tejas Mk1A program, potentially accelerating deliveries and bolstering its air force capabilities.

The F404 engine's resurgence highlights its enduring value for light fighter and trainer aircraft. While the US Navy has shifted to the more powerful F414 for its Super Hornets, the F404's proven performance, reliability, and adaptability make it a compelling choice for nations developing indigenous combat platforms like Turkey and India.

In conclusion, while Turkey's F404 order might initially seem like added competition for India, it could ultimately prove beneficial by stimulating GE Aerospace's production expansion. This, in turn, could streamline the supply of F404 engines to India, enabling faster Tejas Mk1A deliveries and strengthening the Indian Air Force

The F404 engine's revival underscores its continued relevance in the global aerospace landscape, offering a potential win-win scenario for both Turkey and India as GE Aerospace scales up to meet the growing demand.

 

[R. Singh]

We must make GE-404 engines along with GE-414 for our fighter jet program !

 

[Adi]

Is it wise for India to rely on foreign technology for a crucial and critical area after the pager fiasco?

 

[kingsman]

Is it wise for India to rely on foreign technology for a crucial and critical area after the pager fiasco?

Given the dwindling number of FA squadrons in the IAF, do we really have a choice? Do we have a local alternative to the foreign technology in engines?

 

[sanket]

Even Turkey cant develop its own Aero-Engine for Hurjet Jet , why so After Saab , South Korea Turkey too unable to develop its own Engine oh i forgot in that country too there no pvt companies isnt it pvt companies are in bharat ...............???? well done GTRE atleast it has reached 73 kN unlike Turkey Saab South korea not even able to develop after doing years of screw driving / copy paste

 

[Frank]

We must learn from Turkey, it's doing wonders in defense manufacturing

 

[NSR]

India must go for local manufacturing of GE F404IN20 under license with same 80% TOT as F414.
It is very hard to maintain production schedules in light of supply chain disruptions and sanctions by various countries like Denmark did recently engine charge subsystem.

If India intends to build 200+ Tejas IAs for IAF and more for exports, then it must act proactively to manufacture it in India.
India conservatively needs at least 400 to 600 engines for Tejas IAs over their life times.
So get license and build.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Till the time India develops its own engine it would be good to keep 3-4 years of engines and replacabke spare parts in inventory. It would be costly but its necessary.

 

[Sangram]

GoI should provide funds to GTRE for research and development of kavery 2 it's necessary to continue fund this project for success, stop wasting money for freebies .

 

[Amit R]

We must learn from Turkey, it's doing wonders in defense manufacturing

There's is nothing to learn from Turkey.

 

[Intelliegent Indian]

Sudden demand for F404 is shocking. Everyone thought it's line closed due to shortage of demand. Good to see additional customers. Even many thought after Super hornet demand for F414 will also close in 1 or 2 years. Good India opted for local production line. India should concentrate on F414 line only.

 

[Gajanan Rao]

I think we should scrap all programs. We always delay in taking decision. If USA is delaying the F 404 engines why we aren't opting out for other alternative. Why delay? The government is very lethargic it's unable to take quick decision

 

[Akshat]

GoI should provide funds to GTRE for research and development of kavery 2 it's necessary to continue fund this project for success, stop wasting money for freebies .

You don’t want us to waste money on freebies, and want us to give GTRE salaries for the next 30 years for free? 😂😂😂 If you want an engine then the first thing to be done is get rid of DRDO from this project. Then see what needs to be done next.

 

[Akshat]

I think we should scrap all programs. We always delay in taking decision. If USA is delaying the F 404 engines why we aren't opting out for other alternative. Why delay? The government is very lethargic it's unable to take quick decision

And which other options are there?

 

[kurtwallis wallis]

We must learn from Turkey, it's doing wonders in defense manufacturing

Turkey is a "White European NATO and EU" country since 1950's....

 

[Amit]

Every country has a clear goal and path which they work upon..Only in India we see no clear vision and direction and execution...IAF wants something HAL/DRDO develops something and government doesn't spend money and private sector is still very small...Hotchpoch

 

[Avada kedavra]

Even Turkey cant develop its own Aero-Engine for Hurjet Jet , why so After Saab , South Korea Turkey too unable to develop its own Engine oh i forgot in that country too there no pvt companies isnt it pvt companies are in bharat ...............???? well done GTRE atleast it has reached 73 kN unlike Turkey Saab South korea not even able to develop after doing years of screw driving / copy paste

Then how were the russians able to do it?
Sure their quality is not the best but atleast they are able to manufacture a proper functioning engine. Unlike the countries u mentioned.
The only guess i have is that they were all strongarmed by the americans to shut down their programs.

 

[Gajanan Rao]

And which other options are there?

At present there is a huge gap of 12 squads. Around 10+2 aircrafts per sqn. Building new ones and prove their efficacy will consume time. We should go either for SAAB or Sukhois. Because, USA will delay the supply

 

[Rinku Pandey]

Turkey is a "White European NATO and EU" country since 1950's....

Turkey is not in EU. EU didn't let them join. Although it is NATO member.

 

[Akshat]

At present there is a huge gap of 12 squads. Around 10+2 aircrafts per sqn. Building new ones and prove their efficacy will consume time. We should go either for SAAB or Sukhois. Because, USA will delay the supply

Sukhois are of an entirely different class and too expensive and outdated. Plus chance of sanctions if we buy Russian stuff. And India doesn’t trust Russia anymore in defense matters.

Gripen again have the same US engines, failed the trials in MMRCA and is even more expensive than Rafales.

So both the options you gave are not suitable.

 

[Dredd]

Even Turkey cant develop its own Aero-Engine for Hurjet Jet , why so After Saab , South Korea Turkey too unable to develop its own Engine oh i forgot in that country too there no pvt companies isnt it pvt companies are in bharat ...............???? well done GTRE atleast it has reached 73 kN unlike Turkey Saab South korea not even able to develop after doing years of screw driving / copy paste

Turkey, korea have recently started developing engine unlike 40 years for GTRE, SaaB choosed local production variant of F404 and 414 as they knew advantage of local supply chains. Now you answer what we should we do with 73KN engine when requirement was for 85, Isn't this a failure of GTRE, also engine is still 100s of Kilograms overweight which looking at the GTRE record won;t be possible to shave off.

 

[Mahesh rathi]

Our entire light aircraft fighter program is at the mercy of the Americans. Some officials were bribed heavily to do so. The Americans are not that stupid. They have effectively stymied our entire production line of 200 Tejas. And now they will offer us lollipops of technology engine transfer if we buy their fighters n drones. Even if we buy their drones they will still stymied our production line to 2037. And forget tech transfer. Neither they or the French are going to do so.

 

[swatkats_razor]

No aspiring nation should ever fall into a situation which India is currently into.

Getting an indigenous jet engine should be declared a project of national importance. While not necessarily the most elegant way to obtain a technology, we must be open to all means to in order to reach goal.

 

[swatkats_razor]

You don’t want us to waste money on freebies, and want us to give GTRE salaries for the next 30 years for free? 😂😂😂 If you want an engine then the first thing to be done is get rid of DRDO from this project. Then see what needs to be done next.

I understand your apprehension. Very palpable. But what are our options?

The private sector is averse to taking risk where cutting edge engineering is involved. So anything coming from that part of the world is discounted for now. Can't really blame them, our government's talk do not meet action on many counts.

All said and done, GTRE are the only folks with certain level of expertise in the field. We do not have options, unless you can suggest your thought.

 

[Akshat]

I understand your apprehension. Very palpable. But what are our options?

The private sector is averse to taking risk where cutting edge engineering is involved. So anything coming from that part of the world is discounted for now. Can't really blame them, our government's talk do not meet action on many counts.

All said and done, GTRE are the only folks with certain level of expertise in the field. We do not have options, unless you can suggest your thought.

I totally disagree. Private sector is more than willing to bet big dollars on various items. L&T chief has been on record asking for more contracts for big ships. Tata bought a plane and is modifying it without any firm contracts. Kalyani is making its own light tank against DRDO. So the only thing missing is indeed GoI’s openness to give them orders. And anyways, GTRE is sure to fail. Even if you give that money to a start up made by failed engineers we have a better chance of success.

 

[Sudha]

Sudden demand for F404 is shocking. Everyone thought it's line closed due to shortage of demand. Good to see additional customers. Even many thought after Super hornet demand for F414 will also close in 1 or 2 years. Good India opted for local production line. India should concentrate on F414 line only.

You think the problem is only due to closed line of F404 engine? What a straight arrow.🤣😂

 

[Sangram]

You don’t want us to waste money on freebies, and want us to give GTRE salaries for the next 30 years for free? 😂😂😂 If you want an engine then the first thing to be done is get rid of DRDO from this project. Then see what needs to be done next.

Private sector don't have capability to develop engine GTRE at have some experience.

 

[Sudha]

I understand your apprehension. Very palpable. But what are our options?

The private sector is averse to taking risk where cutting edge engineering is involved. So anything coming from that part of the world is discounted for now. Can't really blame them, our government's talk do not meet action on many counts.

All said and done, GTRE are the only folks with certain level of expertise in the field. We do not have options, unless you can suggest your thought.

When was the Indian private sector even involved in the development of aero engine? Since it is high tech & costly to develop it would be advisable for the GOI to support a joint effort of DPSUs, private sector & academia to develop a high output aero engine preferably based on Kaveri, since younger & talented brains usually are not in DPSUs.

 

[Akshat]

Private sector don't have capability to develop engine GTRE at have some experience.

GTRE has been gaining experience on how to fail for 3 decades. Now time to give someone else a fresh start. GTRE’s experience on how to fail should not be allowed anywhere near this project,

 

[swatkats_razor]

If you have to ask me for a name, then your concept of open market competition is wrong. Have an open tender and choose. This ‘nomination’ process is what we have to get rid of and you are trying to make me a part of that same flawed system by asking me for the names.

There are private sector startups which are producing mini turbo-jet turbo-fan engines for niche applications. Though not cutting-edge compared to what GE/Rolls-Royce/Snecma are doing, but capacity to scale up exist if these startup get sufficient funding support and skill infusion. Both can be supplies for by the government if they don't mix their politics into it, offcourse.