How Turkey's Order of 100 F404 Engines Could Boost India's Tejas Mk1A Deliveries

Turkey's recent move to procure 100 F404 engines for its Hurjet light fighter jet has significant implications for India's Tejas Mk1A program.

As both aircraft rely on the same engine family, the increased demand from Turkey could potentially expedite GE Aerospace's production expansion, ultimately benefiting India by ensuring a more steady supply of F404 engines for its Tejas fleet.

India's Tejas Mk1A program has been facing delays partly due to challenges in securing its share of F404 engines amidst a global surge in demand. While the Tejas Mk1A's F404-GE-IN20 variant is the highest thrust model in the family, the overall increase in F404 orders creates pressure on GE Aerospace's production capacity.

However, the Turkish order, along with other international demands like the T-7A Red Hawk and continued Korean T-50 orders, is driving GE Aerospace to ramp up F404 production. This renewed interest in the F404 engine family, once nearing obsolescence, presents a silver lining for India.

As GE Aerospace expands its capacity to meet global demand, India could see a more reliable supply of engines for its Tejas Mk1A program, potentially accelerating deliveries and bolstering its air force capabilities.

The F404 engine's resurgence highlights its enduring value for light fighter and trainer aircraft. While the US Navy has shifted to the more powerful F414 for its Super Hornets, the F404's proven performance, reliability, and adaptability make it a compelling choice for nations developing indigenous combat platforms like Turkey and India.

In conclusion, while Turkey's F404 order might initially seem like added competition for India, it could ultimately prove beneficial by stimulating GE Aerospace's production expansion. This, in turn, could streamline the supply of F404 engines to India, enabling faster Tejas Mk1A deliveries and strengthening the Indian Air Force

The F404 engine's revival underscores its continued relevance in the global aerospace landscape, offering a potential win-win scenario for both Turkey and India as GE Aerospace scales up to meet the growing demand.

 

[Akshat]

At present there is a huge gap of 12 squads. Around 10+2 aircrafts per sqn. Building new ones and prove their efficacy will consume time. We should go either for SAAB or Sukhois. Because, USA will delay the supply

Sukhois are of an entirely different class and too expensive and outdated. Plus chance of sanctions if we buy Russian stuff. And India doesn’t trust Russia anymore in defense matters.

Gripen again have the same US engines, failed the trials in MMRCA and is even more expensive than Rafales.

So both the options you gave are not suitable.

 

[Dredd]

Even Turkey cant develop its own Aero-Engine for Hurjet Jet , why so After Saab , South Korea Turkey too unable to develop its own Engine oh i forgot in that country too there no pvt companies isnt it pvt companies are in bharat ...............???? well done GTRE atleast it has reached 73 kN unlike Turkey Saab South korea not even able to develop after doing years of screw driving / copy paste

Turkey, korea have recently started developing engine unlike 40 years for GTRE, SaaB choosed local production variant of F404 and 414 as they knew advantage of local supply chains. Now you answer what we should we do with 73KN engine when requirement was for 85, Isn't this a failure of GTRE, also engine is still 100s of Kilograms overweight which looking at the GTRE record won;t be possible to shave off.

 

[Mahesh rathi]

Our entire light aircraft fighter program is at the mercy of the Americans. Some officials were bribed heavily to do so. The Americans are not that stupid. They have effectively stymied our entire production line of 200 Tejas. And now they will offer us lollipops of technology engine transfer if we buy their fighters n drones. Even if we buy their drones they will still stymied our production line to 2037. And forget tech transfer. Neither they or the French are going to do so.

 

[swatkats_razor]

No aspiring nation should ever fall into a situation which India is currently into.

Getting an indigenous jet engine should be declared a project of national importance. While not necessarily the most elegant way to obtain a technology, we must be open to all means to in order to reach goal.

 

[swatkats_razor]

You don’t want us to waste money on freebies, and want us to give GTRE salaries for the next 30 years for free? 😂😂😂 If you want an engine then the first thing to be done is get rid of DRDO from this project. Then see what needs to be done next.

I understand your apprehension. Very palpable. But what are our options?

The private sector is averse to taking risk where cutting edge engineering is involved. So anything coming from that part of the world is discounted for now. Can't really blame them, our government's talk do not meet action on many counts.

All said and done, GTRE are the only folks with certain level of expertise in the field. We do not have options, unless you can suggest your thought.

 

[Akshat]

I understand your apprehension. Very palpable. But what are our options?

The private sector is averse to taking risk where cutting edge engineering is involved. So anything coming from that part of the world is discounted for now. Can't really blame them, our government's talk do not meet action on many counts.

All said and done, GTRE are the only folks with certain level of expertise in the field. We do not have options, unless you can suggest your thought.

I totally disagree. Private sector is more than willing to bet big dollars on various items. L&T chief has been on record asking for more contracts for big ships. Tata bought a plane and is modifying it without any firm contracts. Kalyani is making its own light tank against DRDO. So the only thing missing is indeed GoI’s openness to give them orders. And anyways, GTRE is sure to fail. Even if you give that money to a start up made by failed engineers we have a better chance of success.

 

[Sudha]

Sudden demand for F404 is shocking. Everyone thought it's line closed due to shortage of demand. Good to see additional customers. Even many thought after Super hornet demand for F414 will also close in 1 or 2 years. Good India opted for local production line. India should concentrate on F414 line only.

You think the problem is only due to closed line of F404 engine? What a straight arrow.🤣😂

 

[Sangram]

You don’t want us to waste money on freebies, and want us to give GTRE salaries for the next 30 years for free? 😂😂😂 If you want an engine then the first thing to be done is get rid of DRDO from this project. Then see what needs to be done next.

Private sector don't have capability to develop engine GTRE at have some experience.

 

[Sudha]

I understand your apprehension. Very palpable. But what are our options?

The private sector is averse to taking risk where cutting edge engineering is involved. So anything coming from that part of the world is discounted for now. Can't really blame them, our government's talk do not meet action on many counts.

All said and done, GTRE are the only folks with certain level of expertise in the field. We do not have options, unless you can suggest your thought.

When was the Indian private sector even involved in the development of aero engine? Since it is high tech & costly to develop it would be advisable for the GOI to support a joint effort of DPSUs, private sector & academia to develop a high output aero engine preferably based on Kaveri, since younger & talented brains usually are not in DPSUs.

 

[Akshat]

Private sector don't have capability to develop engine GTRE at have some experience.

GTRE has been gaining experience on how to fail for 3 decades. Now time to give someone else a fresh start. GTRE’s experience on how to fail should not be allowed anywhere near this project,

 

[swatkats_razor]

If you have to ask me for a name, then your concept of open market competition is wrong. Have an open tender and choose. This ‘nomination’ process is what we have to get rid of and you are trying to make me a part of that same flawed system by asking me for the names.

There are private sector startups which are producing mini turbo-jet turbo-fan engines for niche applications. Though not cutting-edge compared to what GE/Rolls-Royce/Snecma are doing, but capacity to scale up exist if these startup get sufficient funding support and skill infusion. Both can be supplies for by the government if they don't mix their politics into it, offcourse.

 

[swatkats_razor]

Now time to give someone else a fresh start.

Someone who?
Have any names?

 

[Akshat]

Someone who?
Have any names?

If you have to ask me for a name, then your concept of open market competition is wrong. Have an open tender and choose. This ‘nomination’ process is what we have to get rid of and you are trying to make me a part of that same flawed system by asking me for the names.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

GoI should provide funds to GTRE for research and development of kavery 2 it's necessary to continue fund this project for success, stop wasting money for freebies .

Kaveri is ~6-8% short of required thrust. With testing infra and single crystal tech created it should achieve 85KN. Not even 300 million USD was spent on the whole project. Globally to develop similar engines ~2 billion USD is the estimate. We have the brains, need to pursue things more vigorously. Have to create an ecosystem for fighter jets. Encourage pvt and public sector to start with small jet engines of 10KN, 25KN then reward and encourage them to progress to 50, 75, 100 and 100+ KN. HAL is pursuing 25 KN engine on its own, let govt ask it to develop it soon and declare a good reward for it. The talent pool and ecosystem will create wonders. Tejas Mk2 and AMCA programs are helping us upgrade MKIs ourselves.

 

[Akshat]

Our entire light aircraft fighter program is at the mercy of the Americans. Some officials were bribed heavily to do so. The Americans are not that stupid. They have effectively stymied our entire production line of 200 Tejas. And now they will offer us lollipops of technology engine transfer if we buy their fighters n drones. Even if we buy their drones they will still stymied our production line to 2037. And forget tech transfer. Neither they or the French are going to do so.

It wasn’t any official’s decision. GoI had given blank check funding to GTRE to make Kaveri with F404 only being used for prototypes. But GTRE failed and we were forced to use F404.