India May Consider Russian Su-57 as Stopgap to Counter China-Pak 5th Gen Jets as AMCA Still Far Away

India's pursuit of its own fifth-generation fighter jet, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), is a testament to the nation's growing defence ambitions. This indigenously designed aircraft promises cutting-edge capabilities like stealth technology, supercruise, and advanced weaponry.

However, the AMCA project faces potential delays, particularly in the development of a suitable engine, which could take six to seven years according to current estimates. This delay has opened a window of vulnerability for India as regional rivals China and Pakistan forge ahead with their own fifth-generation fighter programs.

China has already deployed the Chengdu J-20, and is actively developing other advanced fighter jets like the FC-31. Pakistan is also expected to acquire sophisticated fighter aircraft in collaboration with China. This evolving regional threat landscape has prompted India to re-evaluate its options and consider interim solutions to maintain its air superiority.

One potential solution gaining traction is the acquisition of Russia's Sukhoi Su-57 fighter jet. Initially, India had reservations about the Su-57 due to concerns about its engine and other technical aspects. However, recent upgrades, particularly the integration of the Izdelie 30 (A51) engine, have reportedly addressed many of these issues. This new engine significantly enhances the Su-57's thrust, fuel efficiency, and stealth capabilities.

The Su-57 boasts advanced radar-absorbent materials and a reduced radar cross-section, making it a formidable stealth aircraft. With these improvements and its full operational status within the Russian Aerospace Forces, the Su-57 is now viewed as a viable option to bridge the gap until the AMCA is ready for deployment.

Procuring the Su-57 offers several advantages for India. Firstly, it allows the Indian Air Force (IAF) to quickly acquire a fifth-generation fighter jet to counter the J-20 and other advanced threats. Secondly, the Su-57 shares similarities with India's existing fleet of Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighters, potentially easing the transition in terms of maintenance, logistics, and pilot training.

While the AMCA remains a crucial long-term goal for India's defense industry, the Su-57 presents a compelling stopgap solution. By acquiring the Su-57, India can ensure its air power remains robust and capable of addressing the evolving challenges in the region. This strategic move underscores India's commitment to maintaining its defense edge in a rapidly changing geopolitical environment.

 

[tipoo2]

KF21 Boramae is BEST for now as SU57 means very severe sanctions on HAL and no GE engines or MQ9 drones would be delivered forever!!

KF21 is the worst of all options my guy. For one, their self admittedly 4.5th gen MK1 with no internal bays will be ready only by the time AMCA should be as well, which at least has internal bays and hits more marks of a 5th gen fighter. For two, South Korea is equally new to this as us, they're getting Lockheed's help but contract help is available to us to pay for as well.

There's no point to get a 4.5th gen KF21 when our internal bay having AMCA should be ready by then. The problem is what to do while we wait for AMCA.

 

[skgs]

As usual, few years ago Indian military, research people overestimated themselves and rejected Su-57 as inferior and believed they could produce better than Su-57. But, what happened at the end? AMCA is facing endless delay and I am sure it will be on paper for another 10 years. People who lack humility, will only get humiliation.

 

[PKPRS]

Rather than trying to be snarky, how about you actually give some evidence? Russia has received some Su-57s, but gauging both by their limited deployment and the small batches, it is known that they are still only in small-scale production.

I don't think you understand Russian's production process , when they designate a model with M, that's when their real production will pickup steam, means they have thoroughly tested the product in real saturated environments and the product is ready for induction, they made 20 jets this year alone and wanted to produce 20/year from now on, there was a news a couple of days ago saying that SU-57 was used to take high value targets in Odesa Ukraine.

 

[Raj Reddy]

Su-57 the way it exists is not going to be useful for India.

the radar is less capable than the one that we will have on our Super Sukhoi's.

The only way is to MKI the Felon.

Indian designed and produced Computer, Radar(One front looking radar, two side looking radars and one backwards looking radar. Two sets of L band array radars on the wing leading edge), RWR, MAWS need to be added to the Felon to help us Integrate Indian Weapons at a later date.

Software development for such a complex Fighter would be a task. Russia developed close to 4 millions lines of code for the main computer.

India has a huge task ahead if it wants to go ahead with procuring the Su-57 felon.

 

[PKPRS]

As for Rafale, they have significant surplus production. I have given the numbers multiple times here. We can get more Rafale’s per year than Su57. So backlog is not even an issue here.

yes definitely more Rafale's after 15 years when Dassault reduces all 228 order backlog at the rate 10/year, provided other Countries doesn't join the Backlog list ordering more, there are a lot of Countries in the Word that are not as technical as we are, those Countries believe what ever Dassault says like their product has the same capability as 5th gen F-35 and buy Rafale in flocks, we understood Rafale's capability after spending $10Bln and didn't order more.

 

[PKPRS]

I now wonder if we should have stuck to FGFA, to think we were going to order 214 of them and have had no major fighter acquisitions since, and the Su-57 may be the least stealthy of the fifth gen but the FGFA would have at least been this plus the some 43 improvements India was requesting. We should have at least been getting them by now, while AMCA probably won't be squadroning up until late 2030 or 2040 when China is not just 1000+ J20s deep but also probably having more sixth gen fighters than we have fifth even by then again.

FGFA could still be made, FGFA and AMCA are different class fighter jets, one is not the replacement for other.

 

[Anonymus]

Rafale is just a missile carrier interceptor.... It will be detected by enemies easily

same goes for kf21 it also not a stealth fighter jet it is also 4.5 gen means it is also a missile carrier easily detected by enemies

 

[PKPRS]

I have already said Bharat may Buy atleast 2 to 3 sqad of Su-57 & Super sukhoi may get some Tech from Su-57 too, second Bharat may buy Su-57 But will never buy F-35 .

It will never be given, there is no guarantee for GE engine also.

 

[PKPRS]

Yes, let's get that massive maintenance headache. That's what we need, isn't it?

36 Rafale's won't provide you maintenance headache.

 

[Akshat]

yes definitely more Rafale's after 15 years when Dassault reduces all 228 order backlog at the rate 10/year, provided other Countries doesn't join the Backlog list ordering more, there are a lot of Countries in the Word that are not as technical as we are, those Countries believe what ever Dassault says like their product has the same capability as 5th gen F-35 and buy Rafale in flocks, we understood Rafale's capability after spending $10Bln and didn't order more.

We are talking about Dassault, not HAL.

 

[Akshat]

It seems that almost no one covered this because "haha su-57 sucks" in western media, but they did just make a major new serial production expansion in preparation to switch to the Su-57M they'll be making much more quickly, Russian fighter development is a bit confusing but while they've been flying the Su-57 in combat, the "M" is when they consider a jet fully baked, and it comes with modernized avionics and the AL51 designed for it, while the AL41 was not designed for IR stealth.

All I'm saying is what's the harm in India taking a second look into their claims and seeing if it stacks up, they don't have Dassault's backlog

Firstly, I have already explained that Dassault has spare capacity. You couldn’t argue with those numbers. So if you are truly looking for an informed debate, Inwould expect you to stop using that as a negative for Dassault or tell us why not.

Now coming to Su57. I have read that report. But as the drone incident shows, Russia still doesn’t have the know how for stealth. And the price is super high. And the avionics are junk. Even Russia hasn’t placed any fresh orders. They have been claiming to increase production of various weapons but those weapons are still far behind the west. You can look at it all you want, but the fact remains that Russian weapons are a junk and there is no evidence to show that Su57 is any different.

 

[PKPRS]

We are talking about Dassault, not HAL.

They themselves said this that, they made only 13 in 2023 and anticipate to make only 12 in this year and anticipate to make 10 each for the next two years due to supply chain problems and then plan to gradually increase the production rate from 2027 onwards if conditions are good., so there is a lot of ambiguity in their statement.

 

[Akshat]

They themselves said this that, they made only 13 in 2023 and anticipate to make only 12 in this year and anticipate to make 10 each for the next two years due to supply chain problems and then plan to gradually increase the production rate from 2027 onwards if conditions are good., so there is a lot of ambiguity in their statement.

😂😂😂 They have said they will make 22. At least learn to Read. There is not just a statement but hard deliveries to prove that they have surplus capacity and a great product. I know you Russians think we are a poor country who should buy only junk weapons which no one else wants to buy, like Gripen and F18 or Su57. You want us to buy their junk because their production lines are closing. You think only the Europeans and Arabs have the right to fly great planes like Dassault Rafale. But we have moved ahead and won’t fall for your traps now. We will buy what our military wants. You can keep spreading your lies.

 

[Pad UwU]

Care to point put where you feel I am mistaken, or is that blanket statement all you are going to make?

Russian already know stealth technology their Soviet scientist developed the mathematical equation of it when you apply it when design aircraft.... The US scientist who works with the government ask the Russian dude to try to prove his research and viola it's real the result is reducing radar cross section to achieve stealthier profile... Sadly Soviet government at that time are bankrupt 😹😹😹 as times goes by many other steal feature added by other countries research... Only US is the only country applied all those feature the results is f22 and f35.... Fun fact most of RAM coating paint is supplied by UK company for f35...
other factors of stealth feature is small radar jammer that can jam enemies frequency. Su57 has tones of that same goes to f35 and f22. Other futuristic miniaturize radar and it's other subsystems will be producing low power plasma that can absorb radar signal of enemies that negates it's feedback... Those freaking Russian Orc's already knows that and their main big problem is where they can produce it's semiconductor that is a latest nodes foundry like from Samsung, ASML, Global Foundry, Intel and many more for military grade usage... The Chinese fetus eater is pre occupied to master 7nm for their local use.... That's why Russian Orc's instead focus on upgrading su35 into s version....

your comment about lacks many info😹😹😹 with lots of bias...why not apply to defend Ukraine and kick those Russian Orc's 😁🙃

 

[Pad UwU]

The Russian Airforce itself have received only 30 odd j SU57 jets against their 70 or 73 orders paced.

Buying Su35S is better while waiting to catch-up of localize western components and that's what Russian are doing for themselves

 

[tipoo2]

Firstly, I have already explained that Dassault has spare capacity. You couldn’t argue with those numbers. So if you are truly looking for an informed debate, Inwould expect you to stop using that as a negative for Dassault or tell us why not.

Now coming to Su57. I have read that report. But as the drone incident shows, Russia still doesn’t have the know how for stealth. And the price is super high. And the avionics are junk. Even Russia hasn’t placed any fresh orders. They have been claiming to increase production of various weapons but those weapons are still far behind the west. You can look at it all you want, but the fact remains that Russian weapons are a junk and there is no evidence to show that Su57 is any different.

I made both comments before your response. I'll look into it, but I thought most thinking has been they had a backlog and we'd take at least years till delivery. Again I'll look into it.

Russia has an order of 76 in, which is supposed to complete by 2028. They've delivered some 20 of the 76 order. At which point they may order more with the M variant more proven, there's no point in ordering more before the first order can be near complete.

The drone incident shows they don't have the S70 buddy drone down yet. But it's curious how close the Su-57 had to get to Ukranian and western AD to take the S70 down and got out unmolested, while western consensus is its stealth is junk. I'm under no illusion that it's anywhere near an F22 or F35, but going from a gargantuan 10-20m2 RCS of a Su-30 to sub 1M2 is still a massive cut to detection range, and again even if a clean Rafale is similar, a clean Rafale also can't shoot, and would also take RCS ballooning external fuel tanks for such a large internal fuel load as the Su-57.

 

[Anant]

36 Rafale's won't provide you maintenance headache.

Assuming the fleet isn't upsized, it will definitely be a maintenance headache a decade or two down the line. The Mirage 2000 is a good example.

 

[tipoo2]

FGFA could still be made, FGFA and AMCA are different class fighter jets, one is not the replacement for other.

Definitely not instead of AMCA, but as a bridge to AMCA. Seems like we'll just have to sit out fifth gen until the 2040s and that's just to get our first AMCA MK1 squadrons while China's 1000+ improved J20A and J20B's deep and probably ahead of us again on having a few sixth gen squadrons by 2040.

Even if it's the worst of the fifth gen, 214 Su-57's with 43 improvements over them in the FGFA would have made these coming two decades far less scary...

 

[tipoo2]

We should buy 90 Su-57 ans well as 90 Su-75 as US fighters are not for India !

The Su-57 has only just gotten fully baked 10 years later and the Su-75 hasn't even flown yet. That should tell you something. By the time the Su-75 gets the "M" we should be well into AMCA time.

The Su-57M is the only option for a fifth gen bridge to AMCA, unless the US suddenly offered the F35 with no caveats, but even then the IAF has expressed no interest in the latter.

 

[linus52]

I can't understand how Russians will supply to us since they are at war. They couldn't give SU30 to Armenia and S400 to India

They are still running production on All ammunitions and Aircraft production

 

[linus52]

Make a demand to Russia to produce SU57 on India too 50%

 

[Vasugali]

On any day, Russia is a better friend/ choice compared with USA. Also, Rafael is too costly, is a 4.5 gen plane with overflowing order book. As such, SU 57, if allowed full TOT, is a good choice since AMCA appears to be more than a decade away. Even Tejas MkIl has not materialised till date and MKI is being delayed and IAF is apparently heading for a crisis. Perhaps SU 57 could be customized to suit IAF just like SU 30 MKI. IAF must be strengthened to handle a two front war.