India Needs ToT for F-404 Engine like South Korea to Ensure High Production Rate

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India's agreement with GE for F-404 engines is facing significant challenges, highlighting the urgent need for India to secure Transfer of Technology (ToT) for these critical engines. Delays in the supply chain and a shrinking order book from other manufacturers are threatening the timely delivery of the remaining 99 engines, potentially impacting the production of Tejas Mk1A fighter jets.

South Korea's successful FA-50 program, which benefited from ToT for the F-404 engine, serves as a compelling example. By achieving ToT, South Korea established a secure supply chain and maintained a high production rate for its jets. In contrast, India, without ToT, faces dependence on external factors that are beyond its control.

The Indian Air Force's plans to procure additional Tejas Mk1A jets necessitate a substantial increase in F-404 engine requirements. Furthermore, factoring in engine replacement rates over the aircraft's lifespan, the need for these engines is even more pronounced. ToT for the F-404 engine would empower HAL with autonomy in engine production, mitigating future supply chain disruptions and delays.

While ToT involves an initial investment, it represents a strategic decision with long-term benefits. Self-reliance in engine production far outweighs the initial costs. Acquiring ToT would not only ensure a steady supply of engines for the Tejas program but also bolster India's indigenous fighter aircraft capabilities.

In conclusion, the current engine shortage underscores the critical importance of HAL pursuing ToT for the F-404 engine. This strategic move will address the IAF's immediate needs and propel India towards self-sufficiency in jet engine technology, solidifying its position as a leading aerospace power.
 
Kaveri with ~50 KN of thrust is on verge of being integrated in Ghatak. In another 5-6 years it may replace F404's in MK1's and there after in MK1A's. A ToT for F404 will kill our own engine.
 
It was IAF who was not interested in Tejas MK1A ever changing demands , Then Late Defence Minister Manohar parikar pushed Tejas MK1A below the Throat of IAF, after that IAF signed deal for 83 Tejas MK1A. IAF wanted GE to supply Engines & components for Tejas MK1A (GE-404 )while GE-414 For Tejas MK2 was to manufactured undr ToT in India.after some Time IAF found Tejas MK1A Good Fighter jet & wanted Further 97 Tejas MK1A order to place.But IAF never thought about Engine manufacturing Locally under ToT same as GE -414 & wanted Engine components to b supplied by GE for Tejas mk1a Engine GE404 over the Life span of Tejas MK1A. if ToTal 220 Tejas MK1A was going to inducted by IAF they should have clear vision about it.
 
Kaveri with ~50 KN of thrust is on verge of being integrated in Ghatak. In another 5-6 years it may replace F404's in MK1's and there after in MK1A's. A ToT for F404 will kill our own engine.
In another 5 years we won’t be making MK1A, we will switch to MK2 in 2028, Kaveri could be fitted in Twin engine ORCA or TEDBF.
 
Kaveri with ~50 KN of thrust is on verge of being integrated in Ghatak. In another 5-6 years it may replace F404's in MK1's and there after in MK1A's. A ToT for F404 will kill our own engine.
No not at all In entire Life span of Fighter it Require 3.5 Engine. 220 Fighter jets of Tejas are going to b Inducted by IAF then see the potential it will require 880 Engines in Mid Life upgrade Kaveri derivative can b replace once it is developed with desired Thrust & weight.

i always said and again i will say GTRE is fine Tunning the Kaveri derivative to produce 90 kN Thrust. with Reducing weight
 
It was IAF who was not interested in Tejas MK1A ever changing demands , Then Late Defence Minister Manohar parikar pushed Tejas MK1A below the Throat of IAF, after that IAF signed deal for 83 Tejas MK1A. IAF wanted GE to supply Engines & components for Tejas MK1A (GE-404 )while GE-414 For Tejas MK2 was to manufactured undr ToT in India.after some Time IAF found Tejas MK1A Good Fighter jet & wanted Further 97 Tejas MK1A order to place.But IAF never thought about Engine manufacturing Locally under ToT same as GE -414 & wanted Engine components to b supplied by GE for Tejas mk1a Engine GE404 over the Life span of Tejas MK1A. if ToTal 220 Tejas MK1A was going to inducted by IAF they should have clear vision about it.
Blame IAF for govts incompetence..Great.
 
DO NOT need ToT for F404 AT ALL. Just make F414's and during 1st upgrades of MK1A jets put in F414 engines and modify the air intake ducts for 4vanes push-inlet air intakes [like in Jaguars]... It will be sufficient to power these F414 engines....
 
In another 5 years we won’t be making MK1A, we will switch to MK2 in 2028, Kaveri could be fitted in Twin engine ORCA or TEDBF.
Not by a country mile. Even if you take HAL's ridiculously overstated delivery numbers, by 2028, there'll still be a 100 or so Tejas Mk 1As left for delivery. Or are you not taking the 97 aircraft order into account? In practice, going by HAL's performance, we'll have 130-150 Tejas Mk 1As awaiting delivery.
 
In another 5 years we won’t be making MK1A, we will switch to MK2 in 2028, Kaveri could be fitted in Twin engine ORCA or TEDBF.
Tejas Mk1 and 1A will also need, engine replacements, mid-life upgrades. There will be huge requirement.
 
In another 5 years we won’t be making MK1A, we will switch to MK2 in 2028, Kaveri could be fitted in Twin engine ORCA or TEDBF.
MK2 will have it first flight in 2027. Four prototypes will be built, tested and undergo some certifications. It won't be production ready before 2035. TEDBF is still stuck with design review phase. Only god know when will it be produced. IN should go for a deal for 26 Rafales with provision of 26 more at same rates.
 
The reason why didnt go for ToT for F404 is because we plan on putting Kaveri in tejas mk1 and mk1A fighters.
 
DO NOT need ToT for F404 AT ALL. Just make F414's and during 1st upgrades of MK1A jets put in F414 engines and modify the air intake ducts for 4vanes push-inlet air intakes [like in Jaguars]... It will be sufficient to power these F414 engines....
Not possible to put F414 in mk1a fighters.

if you make changes in tejas mk1a to accomodate F414, you get tejas mk2.
 
Not possible to put F414 in mk1a fighters.

if you make changes in tejas mk1a to accomodate F414, you get tejas mk2.
GEF404 and F414 are 100% SAME family of engines with EXACT same dimensions and fittings. GE website itself states that these two engines are 100% interchangeable without any need for any modifications in the fittments....
 
GEF404 and F414 are 100% SAME family of engines with EXACT same dimensions and fittings. GE website itself states that these two engines are 100% interchangeable without any need for any modifications in the fittments....
If this was the case then no one would be buying F404 engines anywhere in the world, and all those who had once operated 404 would have replaced them with F414.
 
MK2 will have it first flight in 2027. Four prototypes will be built, tested and undergo some certifications. It won't be production ready before 2035. TEDBF is still stuck with design review phase. Only god know when will it be produced. IN should go for a deal for 26 Rafales with provision of 26 more at same rates.
That will cost us $30Bln, for 3-4 squadrons of 4th gen jets spending $30Bln is ridiculous, we just need to make MK1A or SU-30 until MK2 is ready, with some used Mirages we could easily wait till MK2 is ready.
 
If the U.S can't deliver now, then they will cause huddles even after ToT.
Invest that money in building up capability, and capacity in India instead.
 
This shows our defense and civilian bureaucracy has not brains at all. Its so surprising that with 100 of :LCA teajs mk1A in pipeline with F-404 engine , we should have gone for TOT.
This why we could have produced in India itself and have control over production timelines plus extra benefits of not directly depending upon foreign supply chains.
Seems like Rajnath Singh is a useless defense minister along with Airforce official.
 
MK2 will have it first flight in 2027. Four prototypes will be built, tested and undergo some certifications. It won't be production ready before 2035. TEDBF is still stuck with design review phase. Only god know when will it be produced. IN should go for a deal for 26 Rafales with provision of 26 more at same rates.
Mk2 is 90% MK1A and shares all the component from MK1A, only engine and dimensions are different, so it doesn’t require much testing.
 

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