India Unlikely to Join FCAS and GCAP 6th-Gen Fighter Jet Programs, Seeks to Focus on Indigenous AMCA Development

India appears poised to decline offers to join international 6th-generation fighter jet programs, opting instead to concentrate on its own Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) project.

Despite receiving proposals from Germany and Spain to participate in the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) and an invitation from the UK-Japan-Italy consortium to join the Global Combat Air Program (GCAP), India remains committed to its indigenous AMCA.

While official discussions with the UK regarding GCAP have been confirmed, India has not publicly acknowledged the German and Spanish proposals. This suggests a strong inclination towards self-reliance in developing its next-generation fighter capabilities.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and the Indian Air Force (IAF) have emphasized their focus on the AMCA, a 5.5-generation fighter designed to bridge the gap between current 5th-generation technology and future 6th-generation platforms. The AMCA is expected to incorporate advanced stealth capabilities, supercruise functionality, and cutting-edge avionics.

DRDO asserts that the AMCA will integrate technologies often associated with 6th-generation fighters, such as artificial intelligence, advanced sensors, and low-observability features. The AMCA is slated for initial induction by 2035, with its development providing valuable experience for a full-fledged 6th-generation project post-2040.

The AMCA's design philosophy aims to position it as a “5.5-generation” platform, incorporating significant advancements over existing 5th-generation fighters. This includes features like directed energy weapons and AI-assisted mission management systems.

Although declining to join the FCAS or GCAP programs at this stage, India recognizes the importance of developing a 6th-generation platform in the long term. The AMCA's success is expected to lay the groundwork for future projects, with the development of a 6th-generation fighter anticipated to commence in the 2040s, targeting induction by 2050.

 

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[DirectorPrime007]

What about the critical time period between its induction and now? Even Pakistan will have 5th gen fighters from China before 2028. While we would have only 4.5+ and 4.5++ at max until 2035. I know the good infrastructure surrounding the air force like Air Defence systems etc. is just as important to serve as a deterrent (something that Pakistan clearly doesn't have.) But still, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Wouldn't joining the FCAS or GCAP (I know the cost argument) better our chances of achieving accelerated completion of AMCA, especially since it will be a 5.5 gen fighter?

 

[PKPRS]

No need of foreign 6th gen jets.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Either we should plan indegenous jet engines for 5th and 6th gen tech or join co development of jet engines or do both. Doing nothing will be too costly.

 

[Steel Mathi]

India is a growing economy. We should not buy a sixth generation aircraft. We can participate in the research of sixth generation aircraft as a supervisor. Their effort to develop a sixth generation aircraft will help India's research in many ways, as will their effort to develop our fifth and sixth generation aircraft. We can spend a few billions generously for that.

 

[Admiral kanhoji angre]

This program is only on paper right now. I doubt india would be an idiot to revive EU ecosystem on cost of it's own.

decline of Europe is a feature not a bug.

 

[sanket]

AMCA is a very important fighter jet project for Atmanirbhar. Joining either project will make Bharat depend on the import of these fighter jets. Engine development is planned with a foreign partner, with 100% of components to be manufactured in Bharat. Tech/features are already being developed or have already been developed for AMCA, so there is no point in joining the Tempest or FCAS projects. Both consortia want a funding partner plus a 100 to 150 6th-gen fighter jet order, which they think Bharat is the perfect country for to make these projects viable. There is only one way for the 6th-gen project to be viable: Both consortia should come together and develop one fighter jet instead of FCAS & Tempest. Simple. No need to pull Bharat into two separate projects. Both consortia want Bharat to depend on them forever for future fighter jets & engines & to milk the money. A recent example is the Meteor missile, which this European consortium denied integration on other indigenous platforms developed by Bharat & even on the Su-30 MKI. They want Bharat to buy Gripen, Eurofighter, or Rafale; that's why they denied the Meteor BVR missile & even denied integrating it on the Mirage-2000 fighter jet too. Don't fall into this trap with both fighter jet projects; it will prevent you from becoming Atmanirbhar in developing top-notch fighter jets.

 

[Alok Gupta]

I think India will be foolish to not join as an observation partner. That much ego for a country that is still desiging 4.5 gen planes and it's 5th gen is still a dream is not good. It will behove India and give a big boost to be a part of a 6th gen plane development program. I am not sure when they will sign the deal to develop the 5th-6th gen engine. Without this, even talking about AMCA is rubbish. Every day lost in delay of signing the deal for developing an advanced engine is equal to that many months in developing an engine. Today, China is able to defelop advanced fighters is because they put 10s of billions of dollars in developing the jet engines. Without that, every thing else is just a fantasy.

 

[Anant]

Refuse the offer? Are we still going to cling to the false hope that something like AMCA will be in service by 2035, given all of the delays in all our projects?

I don't like saying this, but this step is utterly idiotic. We are willingly sacrificing learning opportunities. No one is forcing AMCA to be cancelled or scaled down if we go for a sixth generation project. Heck, this aircraft would be the replacement for the older Su-30MKI fleet, for which we have absolutely no plan right now. Mind you that the IAF plans to retire about 100 of the older Su-30MKIs starting 2040 or so.

 

[Anant]

This program is only on paper right now. I doubt india would be an idiot to revive EU ecosystem on cost of it's own.

decline of Europe is a feature not a bug.

Well, considering they already have wind-tunnel testing underway, mockups ready, and engine development underway, they are far ahead in this than you think. That is besides the fact that literally all participants of both programs have already penciled the program into their long-term force goals.

 

[Anant]

No need of foreign 6th gen jets.

Oh, what's the alternative? See, there is a lot of learning to be had there. If it would be permissible for us to join with no obligation to buy the final product, then this is something we should join.

 

[Anant]

India is a growing economy. We should not buy a sixth generation aircraft. We can participate in the research of sixth generation aircraft as a supervisor. Their effort to develop a sixth generation aircraft will help India's research in many ways, as will their effort to develop our fifth and sixth generation aircraft. We can spend a few billions generously for that.

Yeah, we can't develop a 4.5th generation aircraft on anything that even remotely resembles a reasonable tineline, and you want us to supervise a 6th generation fighter's development.

A toddler who is yet to learn to count has a better chance at solving complex calculus problems than what you suggest.

 

[Anant]

Either we should plan indegenous jet engines for 5th and 6th gen tech or join co development of jet engines or do both. Doing nothing will be too costly.

Sir, the first of those options doesn't seem feasible given realities. It has to be one of the other two.

 

[sanket]

No need of foreign 6th gen jets.

Yes, Bharat opted out of the Su-57 to develop AMCA. These Western countries want Bharat to never become Atmanirbhar and forever depend on them for fighter jets and weapons. Meteor is a great example; they denied this BVR for integration on indigenous platforms like Tejas MK1A & MK2. The European consortium wants Bharat to either buy one of three European fighter jets in MRFA (Gripen, Rafale, or Eurofighter). They also denied Meteor integration on Mirage-2000, and now they want a funding partner first, then after development of this so-called 6th-gen fighter jet, they want Bharat to purchase 100 to 150 fighter jets. This way, this 6th-gen project will become automatically viable. They want to kill three birds with one stone (Russia, the US, and Bharat not becoming Atmanirbhar) and for the next 40 to 50 years, keep Bharat dependent on them by halting the AMCA project.

 

[Steel Mathi]

Yeah, we can't develop a 4.5th generation aircraft on anything that even remotely resembles a reasonable tineline, and you want us to supervise a 6th generation fighter's development.

A toddler who is yet to learn to count has a better chance at solving complex calculus problems than what you suggest.

I definitely agree... 2049 is going to be the 100th anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party... In the 100th year, they must have achieved all kinds of goals. The second goal in that is to annex Indian territory to them. We must definitely engage in a direct war with China by 2049. Even if we don't want it, the war will come looking for us...

We are not proud of their quality. But their production capacity is huge. They have the capacity to produce a fighter plane even in a day. They can easily produce a thousand suicide planes even in a day.

Even though India has quality aircraft and skilled personnel, our production capacity must be equal to that of the Chinese.

 

[Rinku Pandey]

There are no funds to join any 6th gen prog. India can't afford it. So better concentrate on our 5.5th gen AMCA with GE414 engine. I request GOI to sign GE414 engine asap as signing today it will take 3 to 4 years to develop it.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Sir, the first of those options doesn't seem feasible given realities. It has to be one of the other two.

We can go for parallel expedited development for Kaveri, a 110 KN engine and a derivative of AL31FP. Once one of them is built, we should go for indigenous 5th/6th gen engine as well.
If we form a JV for 5/6th gen tech engine, we don't know if the foreign JV partner will transfer the tech to us at a later stage. May be two different 5/6th gen jet engine programes with different thrust class can be planned. One with foreign partner and the other indigenous.

 

[Rational Guy]

Oh, what's the alternative? See, there is a lot of learning to be had there. If it would be permissible for us to join with no obligation to buy the final product, then this is something we should join.

These guys just want to milk money from India. What can India a country which hasnt even properly mass produced 4.5 Gen fighters offer to a 6th Gen program? We will become like Indonesia in it's KF21 Boramae program lol.

 

[Bikramjeet Goswami]

Well, considering they already have wind-tunnel testing underway, mockups ready, and engine development underway, they are far ahead in this than you think. That is besides the fact that literally all participants of both programs have already penciled the program into their long-term force goals.

But should the Americans come up with a 6th Gen fighter before them, they will be "persuaded" to abandon their own project and buy American.

 

[PARTHAJIT JANA]

Only thing india should join is their engine programme and bring those technologies here, nothing more.

 

[Vijigishu ( विजिग्शु )]

Things may not be as obvious as people are thinking. There may have been some strong point why govt isn't choosing to join them. FGFA experience comes to mind. May be costs are too high. Normal logic say we should join one of them but it doesn't seem as obvious.

 

[Surendra Barsode]

Why India does not invite countries like Brazil, South Africa, Egypt, Singapore, Indonesia, Philippines to join AMCA Project? This will reduce our costs and will have ready export market too.

 

[Anant]

But should the Americans come up with a 6th Gen fighter before them, they will be "persuaded" to abandon their own project and buy American.

Considering that the NGAD program is facing an uncertain way ahead, almost certainly will be export-banned, and has a truly ridiculous price tag, I am fairly certain none of these nations would buy those, even if given the choice.

As for the F/A-XX program, that is yet to start. As it happens, the US may be the second or third power to field a sixth generation fighter.

 

[Anant]

Why India does not invite countries like Brazil, South Africa, Egypt, Singapore, Indonesia, Philippines to join AMCA Project? This will reduce our costs and will have ready export market too.

Because we are inept enough as it is when it comes to aircraft development. No one will join, even if invited, unless we can show that we can do a whole project by ourselves on schedule.

As for the nations you mentioned, well, here goes: Brazil doesn't have enough money. South Africa is a failed state and a failing economy. Egypt is too busy enriching the political class using IMF funds. Singapore is a close US ally and operates jets like the F-35. Indonesia doesn't spend a lot on its military and appears to be working with South Korea. The Philippines is also a close US ally and has no money.

 

[Suhas]

We can't event make our own Kaveri jet engine even after spending so much of money and washing tremendous time.
It would be prudent if we join the GCAP to develop Tempest.
We can put our terms to make it in India.

India must join this project.

 

[Surendra Barsode]

Because we are inept enough as it is when it comes to aircraft development. No one will join, even if invited, unless we can show that we can do a whole project by ourselves on schedule.

As for the nations you mentioned, well, here goes: Brazil doesn't have enough money. South Africa is a failed state and a failing economy. Egypt is too busy enriching the political class using IMF funds. Singapore is a close US ally and operates jets like the F-35. Indonesia doesn't spend a lot on its military and appears to be working with South Korea. The Philippines is also a close US ally and has no money.

Agree with you about the conditions of various countries. But each of them can join and fund about 40-50 percent, and that should be good enough for the project. We will have to do it on time and with focus as other countries are involved too.

 

[Sandeep]

India should definitely join as an observer to see the technology, ideas and capabilities that they are designing and developing.

The main problem that India will face will be the cost if we partnered with them and who manufactures what parts or technology along with who has access control to the software etc.

India should definitely focus on developing the AMCA as a 5th generation jet and quickly get the job done. Also let them develop their jet and we can always just import a squadron or two to bolster our air defence and 5th generation fighters.

 

[Anant]

These guys just want to milk money from India. What can India a country which hasnt even properly mass produced 4.5 Gen fighters offer to a 6th Gen program? We will become like Indonesia in it's KF21 Boramae program lol.

Last I checked, none of the GCAP participants except Japan have developed a 5th generation jet either. The simple fact is that this is a very costly endeavour, hence you have multiple nations teaming up. Do remember that even the F-35 was a multi-national program.

 

[Raja Raja Cholan]

Remain committed to indigenous AMCA which is touted as a 5.5 gen fighter and aiming to bridge the gap between 5th and 6th gen fighters all that is fine, the objective is good. But how is it to collaborate with group of engineers from countries with vast knowledge in advanced technologies is going affect Indian defence industries indigenous planned progression to 6th gen fighter aircraft. It is not going to affect the learning curve to enhance knowledge of the Indian engineers in anyway either. So why shy away from collaborating in GCAP project which will bring wealth of knowledge which could be very valuable in our AMCA, TEDBF and other future projects. Hopefully HAL will be there in 2035 with AMCA taking to the sky.

 

[ramdas]

Collaboration offers significant advantages; we shouldn't reject or overlook these opportunities. This government seems to have a big ego and an attitude that the country can advance in sixth-generation capabilities independently. However, programs like the LCA MKIA, MK2, and AMCA are all running behind schedule. Delays in decision-making have dramatically increased costs, resulting in a lack of tangible achievements for the government to showcase to the public.