Indian Army Ignored ATAGS Superior Range and Firepower in Favour of Lighter TGS Artillery for High-Altitude Ops, Say Some Analysts

Some defence analysts have criticized the Indian Army's decision to prioritize lighter towed artillery systems over the indigenously developed Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) for high-altitude warfare.

They argue that the ATAGS, with its superior range and firepower, could provide a significant advantage in mountainous terrain, surpassing any comparable Chinese artillery systems.

The ATAGS boasts a 155mm/52-caliber gun with an extended chamber size, enabling it to achieve an impressive range of up to 50 kilometers. This extended range is particularly valuable in high-altitude regions where thinner air enhances projectile trajectory. Analysts contend that the ATAGS could outperform any lighter 155mm artillery fielded by China in such environments.

However, the Indian Army has reportedly scaled down its ATAGS requirements, citing its 18-ton weight as a major obstacle for deployment in high-altitude areas. This necessitates the use of more powerful towing vehicles, which the Army deems less practical for rapid mobility and logistical efficiency in mountainous terrain.

Instead, the Army has opted for the procurement of a lighter 155mm artillery system, known as the Towed Gun System (TGS), with an expected weight of 15 tons or less. This preference for a lighter system is driven by the need for improved operational flexibility and reduced logistical burdens in challenging high-altitude environments.

Critics argue that this decision to prioritize lighter artillery may compromise firepower and range. They emphasize that the ATAGS is a strategic asset that could provide the Army with a significant edge in long-range precision strikes, particularly in the challenging terrains of Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh.

While acknowledging the logistical constraints of high-altitude warfare, these analysts suggest a more balanced approach. They propose integrating the ATAGS into specific roles where its extended range and superior firepower can be fully utilized, alongside lighter systems for rapid deployment. This would allow the Indian Army to leverage the strengths of both systems, maximizing its artillery capabilities in diverse operational scenarios.

 

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[abhinav srivastava]

Thier requirement is tailored around importing Israeli howitzer.

 

[Deepak Hegde]

All the armchair gyaanis will preach as usual. At the end of the day it is the army which has to do the logistics in the tough terrain. So best to let them decide as users !!

 

[Rinku Pandey]

Army can't tell their side of story being a disciplined force, Armchair critics think they know better. " Vocal for Local" is good but national security can't be compromised.

 

[Raj Bhandarkar]

Army can't tell their side of story being a disciplined force, Armchair critics think they know better. "Vocal for Local" is good but national security can't be compromised.

Correct. Also, another thing is, does the army who use weapons and know their efficiency know better, or the guys who have never seen them in action?

 

[rsb]

If towing large guns up difficult then the army made the right decision. Otherwise give a solution for towing the heavy guns in the terrain.

 

[neil]

Its not just a question of achieving the 50km range with ATAGS. The army knows that it must also redeploy subsequent to firing it's burst to avoid counter battery fire from the sophisticated enemy. For a 18 ton heavy howitzers to move in Himalayan terrain is difficult... That's why army is prioritising light guns for the mountain warfare.

 

[DB_NE_Guy]

Correct. Also, another thing is, does the army who use weapons and know their efficiency know better, or the guys who have never seen them in action?

You're right. Army has first hand experience in field. But arm chair critic's opinion depends on available specifications and 3rd party opinions.

 

[DB_NE_Guy]

Ever been to Himalayas? Roads are not wide and straight, in forward areas there is hardly any black topped roads. And those kind of heavy artillery is also difficult to be transported through air. Being heavy means less mobile, more time to prepare, and operate as well. That's the drawbacks. And yes, it indeed offer better range through.

 

[Kira]

Thier requirement is tailored around importing Israeli howitzer.

That 15 ton limit seems eerily destined for the Israeli gun, although since Israel can't fulfill its delivery obligations for large contract due to the current conflict in the Middle East, I believe that IA may have to settle with an slightly lighter Indian gun.

 

[Kira]

All the armchair gyaanis will preach as usual. At the end of the day it is the army which has to do the logistics in the tough terrain. So best to let them decide as users !!

But even if ATAGS is overweight, it provides a substantially larger range and even a higher firing rate than lighter or usual 155mm guns. Besides, the IA will require heavy-duty trucks to haul any larger 155mm howitzer anyway.

If weight issues are the foremost concern, then the IA should also consider ordering more of the lighter M777 guns, besides considering procuring newer 105mm guns, which provide their own advantage in steeply mountainous terrain.

I can understand the IA giving preference to self-propelled or truck-mounted 155mm guns over ATAGS (due to learning from the Ukraine war), but they are just dilly-dallying over a tree in a big forest.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

That 15 ton limit seems eerily destined for the Israeli gun, although since Israel can't fulfill its delivery obligations for large contract due to the current conflict in the Middle East, I believe that IA may have to settle with an slightly lighter Indian gun.

They may prefer waiting. For larger orders Israel may offer setting up entire assembly line here.

 

[ASHOK CARROL]

Using Titanium alloys and steel, carbon composites the ATAGS gun can weight can easily be reduced to less than 15 tons.

 

[Terminator5000]

Logistics is the key for survival in artillery now. Specially after the evolution of drone warfare and counter artillery radars and firepower. He already acknowledged it needs powerful towing vehicles. May be he can help the army adapt to those new towing vehicles and drive it for them in challenging terrains.This is the same reason army didn't adopt Arjun on a large scale. They need to change all their logistics and protocols for war which was initially adapted for Russian tanks which were lighter.

 

[Sridhar]

Ever been to Himalayas? Roads are not wide and straight, in forward areas there is hardly any black topped roads. And those kind of heavy artillery is also difficult to be transported through air. Being heavy means less mobile, more time to prepare, and operate as well. That's the drawbacks. And yes, it indeed offer better range through.

Another factor we need to consider: since these guns are planned to be used on mountain ranges, trajectories need to be constantly calibrated. The position of the guns needs to be changed frequently to avoid getting hit by counter-battery attacks or attacks from aerial platforms.

Deploying a heavy gun will be a big disadvantage for the Indian Army.Ideally, lightweight howitzers, SPH, and MGS would be most ideal for that kind of terrain. ATAGS would be more suited to plains, provided it is given adequate air cover.

The army is thinking about deploying the best weapons for different terrains. That's it. And it's completely agreeable. There is nothing to raise hue and cry about.

 

[DB_NE_Guy]

Using Titanium alloys and steel, carbon composites the ATAGS gun can weight can easily be reduced to less than 15 tons.

Titanium, alloys carbon composites are difficult to fix when broken.

 

[Rick Golder]

We would have already ordered ATAGS if this was Navy, airforce and army have no clue on what they want and how they want it.

 

[Puneet]

A lighter version of the ATAGS should also be developed. Any product can be modified or fine tuned after user feedback.

 

[Alok Gupta]

ATAGS is not ideal anymore. With FPV drones available in abundance, the ATAGS can be taken out very easily.

 

[Gaon ke chhoro]

Fail to understand why we all feel so compelled to dish out gyan where the subject matter experts (here it's the Indian Army) have decided upon something. It's their budget, their plan (for which they are responsible and accountable) and more than anything else it is their own life that's on the line. One mistake and their men on the front will get wiped out. So who has more on stake here? They have chosen their weapon to fight and in that too the gyani baba's feel compelled to abuse them and sermonize on the right choices that they apparently failed to make! Amazing we are...

 

[asthoughtleader]

Thier requirement is tailored around importing Israeli howitzer.

Unfortunately, the track record of the army brass is like that only.

So even if and when they cry "wolf" about a domestically manufactured weapon for genuine reasons, .their view engenders distrust