India's MRFA Tender May Expand to Include 5th-Gen Fighter Jets, Opening Prospect for 'Made in India' Su-57 or F-35 for IAF

India's MRFA Tender May Expand to Include 5th-Gen Fighter Jets, Opening Prospect for 'Made in India' Su-57 or F-35 for IAF


Reportedly, a high-level committee within India's Ministry of Defence has approved a recommendation from the Indian Air Force (IAF) to potentially broaden the scope of the Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) tender to include 5th-generation fighter jets.

This significant development, confirmed by sources, opens the door for the first time to potential offers of 5th-generation platforms within the MRFA framework, which calls for 110 aircraft with provisions for technology transfer (ToT) and domestic manufacturing.

The key uncertainty remains which 5th gen fighter will agree on ToT, and a Final Assembly Line (FAL) in the Country.

The MRFA tender, estimated to be worth over US$20 billion, is intended to address the IAF's declining number of operational squadrons. The IAF currently operates 31 squadrons, significantly below its sanctioned strength of 42. The new aircraft are meant to replace aging fleets of MiG-21s, Jaguars, and Mirage 2000s.

While the tender initially focused on 4.5-generation fighters, such as the Dassault Rafale, Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet, and Eurofighter Typhoon, the expansion to include 5th-generation options is a response to evolving regional security challenges, particularly the growing presence of China's J-20 stealth fighter and the development of 6th-generation prototypes.

Currently, Russia appears to be the only nation explicitly offering a 5th-generation aircraft with a ToT component. The Sukhoi Su-57E, an export version of Russia's stealth fighter, has been proposed with the possibility of local production at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited's (HAL) facility in Nashik.

The Su-57, which entered service with the Russian Aerospace Forces in 2020, features advanced avionics, the ability to cruise at supersonic speeds (supercruise), and features designed to reduce its radar signature.

Russia has ordered 76 Su-57s for its own forces, with deliveries expected by 2028. The proposal for the Su-57E leverages India's existing infrastructure for the Su-30 MKI, potentially streamlining logistics and maintenance.

The Russian offer, expected to be structured as a government-to-government (G2G) agreement, could see the Nashik facility, already a center for MiG and Su-30 maintenance, become a production hub. This aligns with India's long-standing defense relationship with Russia.

However, past issues with spare parts delays and the impact of sanctions following the conflict in Ukraine raise potential concerns.

A ToT agreement for the Su-57E could also potentially benefit India's own Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program, which is projected to be ready by 2035, by providing valuable knowledge in areas like stealth technology and sensor fusion. However the amount of sharing of proprietary technology by Russia remains uncertain.

In contrast, Lockheed Martin has expressed strong interest in offering its F-35A Lightning II, the most widely deployed 5th-generation fighter globally. However, sources indicate that the U.S. proposal is for a direct, off-the-shelf purchase through a G2G agreement, circumventing the local assembly requirement of the MRFA.

The F-35A, showcased at Aero India 2023, boasts unparalleled stealth capabilities, advanced sensor fusion, and network-centric warfare capabilities. With over 1,100 units delivered worldwide, the F-35's conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) variant is well-suited for IAF bases. The F-35C, a carrier-capable variant, might also be of interest to the Indian Navy.

The United States' strict policies on technology sharing present a significant obstacle. Unlike Lockheed Martin's previous offer of the F-21 (an upgraded F-16 variant) with full production in India through a partnership with Tata, the F-35A's most sensitive technologies, such as its AN/APG-81 AESA radar and stealth coatings, are highly unlikely to be included in any ToT agreement or local assembly line.

Regarding South Korea's KF-21 Boramae, sources have clarified that the current production model is a 4.5-generation fighter. A 5th-generation variant is not anticipated before 2030. The KF-21, which first flew in 2022 and is scheduled for induction in 2026, incorporates advanced avionics.

An insider indicated that it is up to the vendors to decide whether to respond to the tender, suggesting that Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) could potentially propose a future 5th-generation KF-21EX with ToT. But it's development timeline, and dependence on U.S supplied components make it improbable for the current needs of MRFA.

The decision to consider 5th-generation jets in the MRFA tender, approved by a Defence Ministry committee, signifies a two-pronged approach: to meet the IAF's urgent requirement for approximately 450 aircraft by 2040 and to acquire cutting-edge technology.

Given the delays in the Tejas Mk1A program and the long-term development timeline of the AMCA, the addition of a 5th-generation fighter could serve as a deterrent to China's People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) and Pakistan's potential acquisition of J-35 fighters.

Local manufacturing, through a potential agreement for the Su-57E or another contender, holds the promise of boosting India's domestic defense industry.
 
Exactly what I said earlier, and also highlighted for several times, once again, I am 100% right. I have already said the Su-57 is a dark horse. The F-35 is likely to be offered in a fly-away condition, unlike the Su-57, which will be manufactured with the local ecosystem and final assembly line, and customized according to needs. This will put enough pressure on Dassault to rethink starting a Final Assembly Line with local private players, plus a local ecosystem for the fighter jet and engine. And, most importantly, Dassault was unwilling to share ToT. Virupaksha & GANDIVA would be ideal for the Su-57, where Dassault & LM would not be allowed sensors & indigenous weapons on their respective fighter jets, especially the F-35. F-22 + F-35 = Su-57. Earlier, I said the Su-35 was going to be a dark horse if Dassault was unwilling to start and share local assembly with ToT, with autonomy in integrating indigenous as well as third-party sensors and weapons, sharing source code. Ha ha ha! Dassault will definitely bend with its offer, with no other option left. Arrogant Dassault will lose if it fails to meet the MRFA criteria. RR is likely to win the engine project for the 5th Gen with 100% IPR to Bharat.
 
Who will give 110 5th-gen jets for $20 bln, with TOT and a final assembly line? It definitely means no F-35.
 
I request the GOI to stick to our world-class products like MK1, MK1A, MK2, AMCA, TBDEF, etc. Use Kaveri engines in them. So what if they are underpowered? At least they will make our fighters fly. After 20 years, we will have the required squadron strength, and Kaveri can also be made 5th gen. Atmanirbharta is the only way forward, however much time it takes.
 
Su-57 will be cheaper than Rafale and local assembly and engine tech will be cherry on top.
Also, Su-57 tech will assist in accommodation in the AMCA project & fine-tuning the AMCA jet. Russia, too, will help in the AMCA project, unlike Dassault, which gave a sour experience in the 36 Rafale jet purchased (offset clause where it failed in making the Kaveri Engine flight-worthy). Dassault promised big, big things but delivered nothing, doing dilly-dally after clinching the deal.
 
Su-57 will be cheaper than Rafale and local assembly and engine tech will be cherry on top.
Yeah... not quite. We got ToT from Russia from the AL-31FP as well back in the early 2000s. Now, two decades down the line, we are still being robbed in daylight by Russia over new AL-31FPs.
 
The Sukhoi Su-57 could be a good option, provided:
  • There are improvements in the design, as desired by India.
  • Technology transfer (ToT).
  • "Make in India" initiative.
India is not impressed with some of the technology available in the Su-57. If purchased, India would likely replace those components with Indian and Israeli components.

Regarding the F-35:
  • ToT is unlikely.
  • "Make in India" is not possible due to DT's economic policy.
  • Stringent rules and regulations come with the F-35.
 
114 × SU-57 under MRFA - $80 million ($40-45 million per aircraft + other accessories and installations) = $9-10 billion

90 × F-35 off the shelf - $160 million ($80-85 million per aircraft + other accessories and installations) = $14-15 billion

Together, it will cost around $25 billion, which is the same price as for 114 Rafales.

In such a joint purchase of both aircraft, we can avoid CAATSA and also make the Trump administration happy. Furthermore, we won't have to buy Stryker. Swift integration of the F-35 in the IAF is a large issue, along with the anticipation of a kill switch, but then we will have the leverage of the SU-57. Also, we have to bargain hard to take complete control of the software and integration of indigenous weapons. I don't think the Trump administration will make it difficult for a country like India.
 
SU-57 written all over the place, will be probably signed when Putin visits India.
IAF probably will not buy another Russian combat aircraft. The whole ToT from Russia is of little worth, as we have seen after the ToT for MIG-21, Su-30 MKI, etc. In those earlier days of ToT, assembly was all we used to do. The first contemporary ToT discussion, based on IC content, was for the Ka-226. Russia could not go beyond 30%. Here also, something similar is likely to happen. Final assembly is what we will get from Russia. Dassault may or may not offer something more than final assembly. The F-35 will offer none. So, the final outcome may be a two squadrons of F-35, bought under G2G, and four squadrons of Dassault, made (assembled) in India, with the offset component applied to the forex portion – a model similar to the C295, executed in a G2G model. I do not foresee a tender.
 
Price of 26 Rafale: ₹60k crore

Price of 97 Tejas: ₹60k crore

Cancel MRFA.

114 Rafale would cost $30 billion.

We can order 400 Tejas Mk2 at this price.

Let the production be 50:50 between HAL and a private company.

HAL producing 20 jets per year.Private company: 20 jets per year.

Total: 40 jets per year. Delivery complete in 10 years.

Rafale will also take 10 years to complete the 114 order.
 
Su-57 will be cheaper than Rafale and local assembly and engine tech will be cherry on top.
LOL... Please go and read the cost estimates of the FGFA. It is way more expensive than the Rafale, and Russia has refused to do any ToT. They agreed for less than 25% ToT. Heck, they refused to go beyond 35% even for the Ka-226, which even their air force refuses to fly, and you think they will give tech for their latest engine, however useless it might be? 🤣🤣
 
The Sukhoi Su-57 could be a good option, provided:
  • There are improvements in the design, as desired by India.
  • Technology transfer (ToT).
  • "Make in India" initiative.
India is not impressed with some of the technology available in the Su-57. If purchased, India would likely replace those components with Indian and Israeli components.

Regarding the F-35:
  • ToT is unlikely.
  • "Make in India" is not possible due to DT's economic policy.
  • Stringent rules and regulations come with the F-35.
Russia has refused any significant ToT or Make in India. And India, specifically, IAF, has categorically stated they will rather buy Mig 35 but not Su57. Not under any circumstances. This is the explicit statement from GoI.
 
Best option: purchase 2 squadrons of F-35s with the India-specific package.
Then, Make in India, with TOT and IP rights, either twin-engined Su-57 or single-engined Su-75 with the Al-51 engine.
Continue with indigenous AMCA and its 110 kN engine; co-development with GE.
 
114 × SU-57 under MRFA - $80 million ($40-45 million per aircraft + other accessories and installations) = $9-10 billion

90 × F-35 off the shelf - $160 million ($80-85 million per aircraft + other accessories and installations) = $14-15 billion

Together, it will cost around $25 billion, which is the same price as for 114 Rafales.

In such a joint purchase of both aircraft, we can avoid CAATSA and also make the Trump administration happy. Furthermore, we won't have to buy Stryker. Swift integration of the F-35 in the IAF is a large issue, along with the anticipation of a kill switch, but then we will have the leverage of the SU-57. Also, we have to bargain hard to take complete control of the software and integration of indigenous weapons. I don't think the Trump administration will make it difficult for a country like India.
Lol... 40-45 M per jet for Su57? 🤣🤣🤣 What are you smoking, bro? The price, even a decade back, was estimated at well over 100 million USD. Today, it has gone far above that. As for the F35, you are again taking the price that is given for a vanilla plane, for the USAF. We will never get that. If you are taking that price, then even the Rafale comes for about 65 million USD only. So, at least compare apples with apples.
 
Yeah... not quite. We got ToT from Russia from the AL-31FP as well back in the early 2000s. Now, two decades down the line, we are still being robbed in daylight by Russia over new AL-31FPs.
They are even costlier than the AL41 when made in India. No Russian jet, the Su-57, is not even comparable to the EFT and Rafale. I don't know why people are calling it a 5th generation jet. If it was a real 5th generation jet, they would have achieved total air superiority over Ukraine, with France and Germany shitting themselves.
 
Who will give 110 5th-gen jets for $20 bln, with TOT and a final assembly line? It definitely means no F-35.
Select anyone but don't involve HAL in any way. This should be an opportunity to build up private competitor to HAL.
 
Price of 26 Rafale: ₹60k crore

Price of 97 Tejas: ₹60k crore

Cancel MRFA.

114 Rafale would cost $30 billion.

We can order 400 Tejas Mk2 at this price.

Let the production be 50:50 between HAL and a private company.

HAL producing 20 jets per year.Private company: 20 jets per year.

Total: 40 jets per year. Delivery complete in 10 years.

Rafale will also take 10 years to complete the 114 order.
The usual brain dead Frank comment.
  1. The prices mentioned by you are nothing but media estimates at this point, but still, lets assume they are true.
  2. You are comparing price of fully locked and loaded Rafale, that too marine version, with offsets and ToT and ISE, versus the price of a plane with nothing but ground support included.
  3. Cost of 114 Rafale is not mentioned anywhere. So another estimate.
  4. Tejas Mk1A costed us 73 million, again barebones, 4 years back. And you want us to believe Mk2 will cost that much only?
  5. Where is Mk2, anyways? Not getting inducted at least till 2040, in the most optimistic scenario.
  6. HAL delivering 20 jets annually? They haven't delivered those many in the last 6 years. Combined.
  7. If you are talking from the date of the first delivery, which Dassault can confirm today if you ask them but HAL can't, then Dassault can deliver all 114 jets in 7 years. Not 10. HAL will take 50 years to deliver the said 200 Mk2. And those 50 years will start sometime after 2050.
But hey, it's Frank. Why expect reason or logic or facts from him? So chill, you can spread all the lies you want. No issues.
 
Best option: purchase 2 squadrons of F-35s with the India-specific package.
Then, Make in India, with TOT and IP rights, either twin-engined Su-57 or single-engined Su-75 with the Al-51 engine.
Continue with indigenous AMCA and its 110 kN engine; co-development with GE.
Lol...Russia refuses to give even 35% of ToT for KA226 and you think they will give TOT and IPRs for Su57 or Su75? Haha...

Not to mention, IAF has outright refused to buy any Su57 or Su75 under any circumstances. IAF chief is on record saying they won't buy it come what may.
 

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