Javelin Co-Production Doesn't Hinder India's MPATGM Programme

India's exploration into the joint production of the American Javelin anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) is currently under evaluation, sparked by the Indian Army's pressing need for a rapidly deployable, man-portable anti-tank weapon. This development occurs while India continues to diligently advance its indigenously developed Man-Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile (MPATGM) program.

One of the Javelin's most compelling features is its weight. At a total of 22.3 kg (including missile, launcher, and sights), it significantly undercuts the weight of India's MPATGM. The latter, while still in development, is estimated to weigh around 29 kg, excluding its tripod. This makes it a heavier system requiring a two-person operation, unlike the shoulder-fired Javelin.

Notwithstanding the Javelin's advantages, India is strategically adopting a two-pronged approach. The Javelin's quick availability and lighter weight position it as an ideal choice for rapid deployment, especially considering current border tensions. Concurrently, India remains committed to the development and eventual procurement of the MPATGM, which may fulfill distinct roles within the army's arsenal in the long run.

The MPATGM has been undergoing trials since 2018, but its development and user trials are anticipated to take another 2-3 years. In contrast, the Javelin is a combat-proven system with a track record in various conflicts.

Reports suggest that India is contemplating a substantial order of nearly 40,000 Javelin and MPATGM 3rd generation ATGMs in the future. This move aims to phase out the current inventory of 70,000 2nd generation ATGMs (Milan of French origin and Russian Konkurs ATGMs), which are considered outdated against modern armor. Both the Javelin and MPATGM are likely to replace these older systems within the Indian Army.

 

[Sandeep]

Whatever happened to Atmanirbhar

Has the government or military said they are buying it? The USA have been trying to sell it to us for over 10 years now but it’s been denied.

 

[Akshat]

Undoubtedly.. however the generals assigned to procurement process only are still driven by a process & philosophy of colonial era, initiating all evaluations with a negative & fault funding mindset

Exact opposite bro. Army has a set of requirements. While testing, they only test if those bare minimum requirements are met or not. This is exact opposite of finding faults. In fact, when it comes to domestic items, most of the times they give concession even on those bare minimum standards.

Look at Insas, for example. Army kept sending complaints about it but still kept using and ordering more and more guns for almost 2 decades. And it’s not as if army alone was complaining. BSF DGP came out in the media and gave actual hard numbers of how faulty it was, pleading for alternatives. Even Nepal army hurt blamed the rifle and said that they wouldn’t have lost so many soldiers if they hadn’t chosen Insas. But army still kept buying it.

 

[Akshat]

But CRPF is very happy in the same terrain... And ready to place repeat order...

Their requirements are different. As soon as a war breaks out CRPF will be out but army will have to use those machines in the peak of the battle. There is a reason why military tech is usually at the bleeding edge and paramilitary usually gets passed down variants.

And no one really knows if they are happy either. Remember Insas? MHA forced BSF to buy it and they used it for years and placed repeat orders. It was a decade later that BSF DGP came out with hard numbers on just how cr@ply the product is and pleaded to get it changed.

 

[Akshat]

MCIWS, Arjun tank, ATAGS...

Arjun tank failed to meet the requirements. ATAGS too doesn’t meet the requirements but we are still buying it as proven by the new GTVs we are buying for it. And MCIWS also never cleared user trials. So no one knows if it worked or not. If it did, why has it never been pitched to any foreign entity either? It wasn’t even submitted to army for certification which shows that the product never finished developmental trials either.

 

[White T POISON]

Import army has a nice way of saying bye bye to indigenous Naag ATGM & it's MANPATGM version.

Nag is a 40kg missile. It's not even in the same class. The Javelin is a very proven system. The only superior systems are the MMP(atgm5) and the spike Mr,lr and nlos. They are far mire expensive.

 

[Sandeep]

The USA have been trying to sell the Javelin to the military for over 10 years now but the military and government have rejected it. Even if they produce the javelin in India we would be producing the very basics and not any of the critical technology like the actual missile, sensors or components.

They are firmly behind the indigenous MPATGM missile and it will be inducted and used. Even if the missile and launcher weigh a bit more then we should still buy and use our indigenous ATGM as nobody else will give us the technology or knowledge in knowing why or knowing how.

 

[GMR]

Exact opposite bro. Army has a set of requirements. While testing, they only test if those bare minimum requirements are met or not. This is exact opposite of finding faults. In fact, when it comes to domestic items, most of the times they give concession even on those bare minimum standards.

Look at Insas, for example. Army kept sending complaints about it but still kept using and ordering more and more guns for almost 2 decades. And it’s not as if army alone was complaining. BSF DGP came out in the media and gave actual hard numbers of how faulty it was, pleading for alternatives. Even Nepal army hurt blamed the rifle and said that they wouldn’t have lost so many soldiers if they hadn’t chosen Insas. But army still kept buying it.

If DRDO os failing for IA only, why IA is not doing constructive collaboration st development stage itself for big ticket platforms, during development trials atleast.. why wait for end of 4-5 yrs of famous trial to reject??

 

[Akshat]

If DRDO os failing for IA only, why IA is not doing constructive collaboration st development stage itself for big ticket platforms, during development trials atleast.. why wait for end of 4-5 yrs of famous trial to reject??

Who said it is failing for IA only? Forgot the CAG report that said that DRDO’s towed array sonar failed the trials from Navy but DRDO submitted fake success report? IAF’s fighter squadron deficiency is legendary. LCA mk2 was supposed to enter production in 2016. Where is it?

So no bro. DRDO is failing everyone.

 

[sandy 007]

Very Surprisingly country like Iran is developing so many small weapons it may be cheap but if provided with good navigation technology in their drone technology it can bogdown country like Israel also. What about India we still fly kids drone. Chinese drone like DJI can pernitrate deep into India and can fly high also ,I think our vendors also buy Chinese drone component and fix it and has sell it Indian Army. What is the need of the hour is buy cheap drone technology from Iran and ask Indian private players to buy a few advance Iranian drone with ammunition and apply some navigation technology and make it stealthy and try to manufacture and rename them that can work well with some DRDO borrowed technology. I think indian Firms must work with Iranian companies and learn some tech on drone technology what if russia and chinese can do the same why not india.

 

[ASHOK CARROL]

Whilst building the Carl gustaf MK-4 Swedish rockets and Launchers lessons must be learned and indian anti tank launcher and tripod weight reduced , using titanium aluminium lightweight alloys and extensive carbon composites and fibres so that 5 to 8 kgs of weight can be reduced . The Javelin will be helpful in mountains and consultancy can be sought to reduce the weight of launcher and tripod from the Americans .

 

[SK]

Javelin has been able to reach such specifications due to continous investment & improvement in technologies by its National Military the same needs to done for MPATGM by Indian Military.

Till then Indian Military should continue operating the existing Russian & French systems.

 

[Baiju Bhaskaran]

Most of the US weapons are not suitable for our high altitude operations . We are already facing issues with Apache and stryker also has the same problems.We should instead collaborate with South Korea as they have the same high altitude conditions like us and their weapons are designed for such operations. The best example is K9 Vajra.

 

[kumar]

IA as usual going for imports even after having local systems. This is our country's atmanibharatha.