Lockheed prioritizes F-21 despite F-35A display in India

Lockheed Martin, America's defense giant, faces a strategic crossroads in its ongoing campaign to secure India's massive Medium Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) tender.

The company's initial focus has been on the F-21, a customized F-16 variant marketed exclusively to India. However, the dazzling appearance of two F-35A stealth fighters at Aero India 2023 has reignited discussions about Lockheed potentially offering its premier technological marvel to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The F-21: A Familiar, Upgraded Option​

The F-21 builds on the F-16's proven legacy. With a production line buzzing in Greenville, South Carolina, Lockheed promises ease of integration and "Make in India" opportunities.

The F-21 offers enhanced capabilities, including advanced avionics and weapons systems, positioning it as a cost-effective modernization workhorse. This approach aligns with the IAF's stated goal of 114 new fighters and substantial technology transfer within India.

The F-35: A Technological Disruptor​

The F-35's arrival on Indian soil was a calculated move. Its fifth-generation stealth, sensor fusion, and network-centric warfare capabilities represent a quantum leap over the F-21.

Offering the F-35 could dramatically alter the Indian fighter landscape and cement Lockheed as India's long-term strategic partner. But this path has hurdles – the F-35's price tag, potential export restrictions, and disruption of India's focus on domestic manufacturing.

Factors Influencing Lockheed's Strategy​

Several variables will likely shape Lockheed Martin's ultimate play:

• The RFP Wording: The specifics of India's Request for Proposal will be crucial. Does it place a heavy emphasis on cost and "Make in India", or is there room for higher-tech, higher-priced options?
• US-India Relations: The geopolitical context matters. Is the US willing to offer the F-35 to further solidify a strategic partnership with India, potentially offsetting the cost?
• Competitors: Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet, the French Rafale, and others are in the fray. Lockheed must tailor its offer accordingly to maintain a competitive edge.

The Stakes Are High​

The MRFA tender is more than just a lucrative contract – it speaks to India's future defense posture and the delicate equilibrium of regional power. For Lockheed Martin, winning would cement its position in an immensely valuable market.

Failure to secure the contract, however, could be a significant blow as other global aerospace giants gain influence.

 

[Akshat]

That's were negotiations always falter. Only SAAB has clearly agreed to it.

So did every other participant in the MMRCA or MRFA tender.

 

[Akshat]

Gripen would have been an excellent choice if India had fully committed to it. Have purchased 36 Rafales already there is absolutely no point in another tendering and evaluation process. Buying more Rafales is the only logical choice left. But given the high demand for Rafales, Dassault would have to set up another production line to supply India.

Excellent choice? It failed the trials. Not sure how a jet that can’t even meet your basic needs can be called excellent.

 

[Akshat]

India wont let Americans anywhere near AMCA..let alone getting it manufactured in the same plant.
Regarding GE engines, they wont need any integration support as that is ADAs job since they know the interfaces.

Wrong. You need the OEM to integrate the engines. Even for LCA mk2, GE engineers will come to India and integrate it, which has been officially stated by GE itself. So probably you need to do a bit more research while investing.

 

[Akshat]

That is the problem with the Americans, they can neither be trusted nor have any understanding of India, and the ones guiding them are supposedly "Indians" who left India with their parents 30-40 years ago...but its fun to watch the comedy

US’ military’s head of Indo Pacific region had said that various platforms (he was asked specifically for F35) can be offered to India, if India sent a formal request. But with the acquisition by f S400, those opportunities were closed.

 

[Bikramjeet Goswami]

Inflated price? GoI said that the price is actually a 25% discount. The same was attested by the independent auditor, CAG. Of course, if you think RaGa or his band counts as a valid ‘observer’….

The French authorities are still probing the case despite all that. The Indian side has reportedly refused with co-operate with French judiciary on several occassions. I don't know the truth but " bribery/ illegal commissions" are common in defence procurement the world over.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

If US had a even a simple understanding of India, they would have long back offered F-35A (with lower ToT) and closed the deal, but their G-7 attitude that "let the 3rd world country fly what we plan to junk anyways" has runied all their chances of winning anything but dissappontments.

Stop day dreaming. F-35 tech transfer is neigh impossible. Even the closest US allies dont get one. There are just 2 more F-35 Final Assembly and Check-Out (FACO) facilities outside US. There is one in Nagoya Japan and another in Cameri Italy, both for the most part controlled by Lockheed Martin. Nobody, I repeat nobody gets a tech transfer.

 

[Akshat]

The French authorities are still probing the case despite all that. The Indian side has reportedly refused with co-operate with French judiciary on several occassions. I don't know the truth but " bribery/ illegal commissions" are common in defence procurement the world over.

So clean chits by multiple agencies, including by French authorities in the past, count for none but an ongoing case and unnamed reports are enough? Cool.

 

[Anant]

Both sides couldn't agree on price and negotitions were going nowhere. So India opted to buy 36 jets direct from France at a price which "many observers" said was inflated. Programs going nowhere is the principle problem in India.

MMRCA was cancelled because of stupidity. Dassault had formed DRAL wuth Reliance back in early 2012 for MMRCA. This was days after the Rafale was announced as the winner, and the announcement that exclusive negotiations would proceed. The government insisted that HAL be the production partner, and after some negotiations, Dassauly agreed, with DRAL being allowed to play a role in wing production.

Now, the tender never included a fixed price clause, and with inflation everywhere, the price started increasing. There was also the fact that Dassault started escalating the prices for the India-specific enhancements, but inflation was the larger culprit here.

To start with, the IAF had budgeted some 10.5 billion USD (42000 crore INR) for the fighters back in 2007 (assuming an exchange rate of 40 INR per USD for the time). By 2014, this had risen to some 17 billion USD (106000 crore INR) by 2014, at which point the government requested a price review by Dassault was done. Finally, in 2015, the government decided to pull the plug and order 36 Rafales off the shelf.

Now, as for part of why the negotiations were going nowhere: The government wanted to limit Dassault's role in the overall production process to an advisory capacity. On top of that, they wanted Dassault to take responsibility for the quality and timely delivery of Rafales manufactured by HAL. Dassault very reasonably refused, and offered to set up a joint team that would conduct these studies, after which any blame could be split between Dassault and HAL. Of course you cannot expect Dassault to bear the responsibility for HAL's work or lack thereof.

The main problems, therefore, were that the IAF started with a low budget to start with, the fact that no fixed-price clauses were put in, and the refusal of the government to let HAL take any responsibility for any delays in the process.

The first of those problems has not changed. Even just a few days back, when the Army issued that tender for the FMBT, they want a tank that is better than a 10 million USD K-2 Black Panther for 4 million USD apiece.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

60 year old Design India Need Latest design/contempoarary .Similar claims were made when india was scouting for Naval version with Advance Avionics ,,AESA Radar,weapon package etc. But at the end Rafale won the Race . US aat the moment dont have Latest design to offer compare to EuroFighter Rafale or even Gripen (which is not likely to win). some times article comes on F-15Ex Now its Rebranding F-21 .IAF needs Twin Engine Medium category Fighter. Way back it was issued single Engine Tender then it was again cancelled.US is expecting either one may win by putting some pressure if possible

Thats rich coming from us, when we are the only air force to still use the SEPECAT Jaguar, which if my memory serves me right is a third-generation fighter aircraft. Not only that we still continue to employ the Mirage 2000, which has been out of production for more than 155 years now. F-16 is a contemporary to Mirage and was developed about the same time. In fact the Mirage 2000 came a bit later than F-16, while F-116 were first introduced in 1978, the Mirage were introduced in 1984. That itself is a testament to longevity of design.

Its perfectly fine if we don't want to buy it, but to ridicule it by calling it old does disservice to the legacy of the aircraft and when even our latest fighters are incapable of reaching standards of networking and sensor fusion set by F-16, we ought to not comment carelessly, lest we make a fool of ourselves.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Boeing offered to help with Indian 5th Generation fighter AMCA design and manufacturing.
Boeing want India to use the local F-15EX plant to manufacture AMCA too.

Boing already manufactures stuff in india as well. Boeing and India has good relations.

 

[Bikramjeet Goswami]

So clean chits by multiple agencies, including by French authorities in the past, count for none but an ongoing case and unnamed reports are enough? Cool.

Ongoing investigation is by the French authorities and the reports are widely available in both Indian and Western media. I remember reading it in Dec' 23.

 

[Sudha]

Not quite. Even during MMRCA, Dassault had agreed to a production line for 108 Rafales in India, with the first 18 being built in France due to time constraints. Of course, with almost a decade gone since then, MRFA hasn't gone anywhere.

Don't bet on it. France is more cooperative than before & HAL (reason for failure of MMRCA.1) will not be involved this time round. Moreover rafale will need 2nd line of production to meet demand.

 

[Puneet]

The MRFA is not for 5th generation aircraft. Rafale is most suitable and will be chosen in all probability. AMCA is being developed and will not take as much time as LCA Tejas. The ecosystem has been developed and will benefit the future aircrafts.

 

[Sudha]

The French authorities are still probing the case despite all that. The Indian side has reportedly refused with co-operate with French judiciary on several occassions. I don't know the truth but " bribery/ illegal commissions" are common in defence procurement the world over.

If you don't know the truth why are you spreading rumour? India refused to cooperate with French judiciary? Where did you read this "story"? Checked on Google & what did I found? The news is originating from a french media "mediapart" (which is publishing fake news without any evidence, sounds familiar? It's like scamgress all over again) & picked up by "wire" (a world famous fake news media) & India today (a media which has a bias against current regime ruling Delhi).

 

[Bikramjeet Goswami]

Excellent choice? It failed the trials. Not sure how a jet that can’t even meet your basic needs can be called excellent.

The Gripen is widely regarded as a very effecient platform, both in terms of capability and price. That the Indian Air Force had envisioned a twin engined aircraft for their needs is the issue. It was regarded very welĺ by the IAF.

 

[Bikramjeet Goswami]

Thats rich coming from us, when we are the only air force to still use the SEPECAT Jaguar, which if my memory serves me right is a third-generation fighter aircraft. Not only that we still continue to employ the Mirage 2000, which has been out of production for more than 155 years now. F-16 is a contemporary to Mirage and was developed about the same time. In fact the Mirage 2000 came a bit later than F-16, while F-116 were first introduced in 1978, the Mirage were introduced in 1984. That itself is a testament to longevity of design.

I agree. F16 is still a potent aircraft. The Americans have been continually upgrading the F 16.

 

[Anant]

Don't bet on it. France is more cooperative than before & HAL (reason for failure of MMRCA.1) will not be involved this time round. Moreover rafale will need 2nd line of production to meet demand.

Oh, I agree with you. I am merely countering Mr. Goswami here.

 

[Bikramjeet Goswami]

If you don't know the truth why are you spreading rumour? India refused to cooperate with French judiciary? Where did you read this "story"? Checked on Google & what did I found? The news is originating from a french media "mediapart" (which is publishing fake news without any evidence, sounds familiar? It's like scamgress all over again) & picked up by "wire" (a world famous fake news media) & India today (a media which has a bias against current regime ruling Delhi).

I don't know the truth "government ptograms" any more than you do. But I keep my mind open while others bury it in the ground. I read about it The Print. It was also carried by India Today and The Wire. You needs links?

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

I agree. F16 is still a potent aircraft. The Americans have been continually upgrading the F 16.

A full-spec F-16V Block 70/72 is a monster and is still a very very capable aircraft. Yes there are better aircraft such as Rafale and Typhoon available. But for the cost, it kind of delivers on most propositions and is still fairly modern with avionics derived from F-35. In the era of stealthy low observable aircraft such as the F-35, the venerable F-16 is still a fairly robust bomb truck, particularly useful for mud-pushing ops, after air superiority has already been established.

What's more its sheer volume of operational inventory ensures a robust supply chain for spare parts, with a very mature maintenance and logistics infrastructure available globally.

 

[Bikramjeet Goswami]

A full-spec F-16V Block 70/72 is a monster and is still a very very capable aircraft. Yes there are better aircraft such as Rafale and Typhoon available. But for the cost, it kind of delivers on most propositions and is still fairly modern with avionics derived from F-35. In the era of stealthy low observable aircraft such as the F-35, the venerable F-16 is still a fairly robust bomb truck, particularly useful for mud-pushing ops, after air superiority has already been established.

What's more its sheer volume of operational inventory ensures a robust supply chain for spare parts, with a very mature maintenance and logistics infrastructure available globally.

People often underestimate the role of maintainability of any weapon system. The F 16 scores very weĺl in that respect for the reasons you have mentioned. But the Indian armed forces are reluctant to fully commit to an American system. Also in the kind of conflict India might find itself, achieving air superiority might be far from possible.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

People often underestimate the role of maintainability of any weapon system. The F 16 scores very weĺl in that respect for the reasons you have mentioned. But the Indian armed forces are reluctant to fully commit to an American system. Also in the kind of conflict India might find itself, achieving air superiority might be far from possible.

As I previously mentioned, its perfectly fine to not want it. but that would be a political decision. Any way what people who keep complaining about the age of the air frame design, don't realize is that the F-16 design form the outset was almost perfect. You cant improve a design that was almost flawless to begin with. In such a scenario, modernization efforts would obviously have to revolve around avionics and sensor upgrades.

Mind u the US thoroughly tested the concept of thrust vectoring for F-16, in their experimental F-16 Vista program with Multi-Axis Thrust Vectoring (MATV). However, after thoroughly testing the aircraft in such a configuration, they came to the conclusion that the extra maintenance costs involved were just not worth the effort.

 

[Ajath]

Thats rich coming from us, when we are the only air force to still use the SEPECAT Jaguar, which if my memory serves me right is a third-generation fighter aircraft. Not only that we still continue to employ the Mirage 2000, which has been out of production for more than 155 years now. F-16 is a contemporary to Mirage and was developed about the same time. In fact the Mirage 2000 came a bit later than F-16, while F-116 were first introduced in 1978, the Mirage were introduced in 1984. That itself is a testament to longevity of design.

Mirage 2000 is a derivative of Mirage 3 and 5 . Tweaking was done to suit multirole missions. Ofcourse new computers , FCS , RADARS , Avionics and sensors were added.

 

[Fresh Water]

The U.S. has the tendency to push its buyers into war, by escalating conflicts through back-channels.

 

[ABHIJIT APSINGIKAR]

Mirage 2000 is a derivative of Mirage 3 and 5 . Tweaking was done to suit multirole missions. Ofcourse new computers , FCS , RADARS , Avionics and sensors were added.

Oh, what about the airframe? Mind u our mission computers themselves are obsolete and have just 8GB ram, based on a 28nm processing core. With such avionics upgrades, that increase the overall weight of the airframe without the possibility of engine upgrade, I would expect the re-run of the horrid DARIN III upgrade package, which increased the weight of the airframe well beyond what its engines could sustain.

Any way u undercut the argument that the F-16 is old since the F-16V essentially has all those upgrades as well as support and new more powerful engines.

 

[WarTech]

Politics and stupidity aside, F-15EX is the best 4th Gen fighter on the market. If we want to have a strong fighter backbone, F-15 with AWACS would be a good counter for not only now but future Chinese weapons which the Chinese will bring, as US is looking to dominate Chinese weapons for long term.

 

[Pink Panther]

Both the F414 and the MQ-9 deals are well on the way to being signed, and progress is being made. As for the F404, the Americans are saying that they can ramp up production from late 2025. Hence, I find it highly unlikely that anything will be held hostage to the F-16V winning MRFA.

We have to wait and see, we never know..

 

[Akshat]

Ongoing investigation is by the French authorities and the reports are widely available in both Indian and Western media. I remember reading it in Dec' 23.

Has there been an adverse verdict? There have been several favorable verdicts for sure. Till when will we keep investigating and doubting? Forever?

 

[Akshat]

The Gripen is widely regarded as a very effecient platform, both in terms of capability and price. That the Indian Air Force had envisioned a twin engined aircraft for their needs is the issue. It was regarded very welĺ by the IAF.

No. If that was the case, they wouldn’t have invited F16 or Gripen in the first place. MMRCA was open for all categories as per the tender documents.

IAF tested the plane in field trials and declared that it failed to meet their operational requirements. Not sure how that can mean ‘regarded very well’ in any manner what’s. IAF officially declared it a failure.

As for well regarded globally, how many orders have they even received in the last decade? Only Brazil bought it, and that too when it was told that Saab would open an assembly line to serve the whole Latin American requirements, but not a single order came.

To be well regarded one must have orders, no? And clear trials.

 

[Amit Ray]

If US had a even a simple understanding of India, they would have long back offered F-35A (with lower ToT) and closed the deal, but their G-7 attitude that "let the 3rd world country fly what we plan to junk anyways" has runied all their chances of winning anything but dissappontments.
I mean, lets face it, you plan to sell the same weapons platform to arch rivals, lol...someone was smoking up something pretty high quality to live in that fallacy.
And add to that the GE engine fiasco
That is the problem with the Americans, they can neither be trusted nor have any understanding of India, and the ones guiding them are supposedly "Indians" who left India with their parents 30-40 years ago...but its fun to watch the comedy

Well we all can fathom that you have seen much going by the comments you make. You just don't have the basic idea about how things go, the IAF which has mostly flown French and Russian aircrafts will suddenly start flying F-35A, you think flying fighters is some sort of joke?? Are you aware that operating F35A requires highly advanced infrastructure and special training. Pilots who has never flown earlier versions US fighters won't be able to fly these aircrafts.

 

[Amit Ray]

They successfully sold us Sig-716, F-404, Hellfire, Harpoon, MQ-9, P-8I, MH-60R, Apache, Chinook, Hercules & made billions. Currently we are in the process of begging them to re-open the Globemaster production line. So is F-35 the newest addition in the wishlist of the begging bowl ?
Logic says it is, because the US has no compulsion to sell bleeding-edge VLO Stealth technology to a country which operates potentially malwared Russian AD. They already have more than enough orders from NATO as well as several Non-NATO allies, keeping aside their own which is the largest in the world.

Hey, every thing is paid for and by the way we ain't begging they have come running. You might come of the line of begging clan, don't think India belongs to your class. We have many alternatives.