Project-75I Faces Hurdles as Indian Navy's AIP Requirements Remain Unmet by Navantia and TKMS in Submarine Trials

The Indian Navy's ambitious Project-75I, aimed at acquiring six advanced diesel-electric submarines, has encountered significant roadblocks concerning the crucial Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems.

Trials conducted by the two leading contenders, Spain's Navantia and Germany's ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), have reportedly fallen short of the Navy's stringent requirements for operational readiness and scalability.

Project-75I seeks to bolster India's underwater capabilities with the procurement of six next-generation submarines equipped with advanced AIP technology. This technology is pivotal for extending a submarine's underwater endurance, significantly enhancing its stealth capabilities and operational effectiveness.

Navantia, partnering with Larsen & Toubro, presented its AIP solution based on a land-based prototype. While the demonstration showcased technological advancements, it failed to satisfy the Indian Navy's demand for sea-proven AIP technology.

The Navy emphasizes the critical need for operational trials under actual submarine conditions, recognizing that land-based tests cannot fully replicate the complex challenges of underwater operations.

TKMS, in collaboration with Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited, demonstrated its AIP system onboard a submarine. However, the showcased system was designed for smaller, 2000-ton submarines, whereas Project-75I mandates AIP capabilities for the larger 3000-ton U-214NG submarines on offer.

This discrepancy necessitates the development of a significantly larger and more powerful AIP system by TKMS to meet the Indian Navy's specifications, potentially leading to delays in the project timeline due to the required technical adjustments and subsequent testing.

The current situation leaves the Indian Navy at a critical juncture. Neither Navantia nor TKMS has fully met the Navy's stringent criteria for AIP technology in the context of Project-75I.

The trials have exposed a gap between the demonstrated capabilities and the Navy's expectations regarding operational readiness, scalability, and endurance under real-world conditions.

The Indian Navy's next steps remain to be determined. Potential options include requesting further demonstrations from both vendors, urging them to revise their systems to meet the specific requirements regarding size and underwater endurance, or potentially reopening the tender to other international players capable of developing or possessing the required AIP technology.

The success of Project-75I hinges on securing a suitable AIP system, underscoring the significance of these upcoming decisions for India's naval modernization efforts.

 

[Akshay]

Hard decision to make in favour of any. Both lacks the requirements proposed by indian navy.

 

[sanket]

This is how foreign OEMs operate. Not only are they delaying the project, but the project cost will also be hiked when they know the specifications and requirements. Why do they come with half-baked tech? That too in an international order.

 

[swatkats_razor]

Mere do anmol ratan, aek MRFA, aek Project-75I.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Mere do anmol ratan, aek MRFA, aek Project-75I.

There is a difference. MRFA is dead while P75I is in coma

 

[Baiju Bhaskaran]

Right from the beginning approach of two projects MRFA and P75I had been in the wrong direction. It is time to cancel this both projects.

Indian Navy should order additional ten Scorpene Submarine instead of three . They should concentrate on indigenous P77 project.

Indian Air force should order additional 36 Rafales and 72 Sukhoi's and concentrate more on Kaveri, Tejas and AMCA.

 

[Akshay Bisht]

Right from the beginning approach of two projects MRFA and P75I had been in the wrong direction. It is time to cancel this both projects.

Indian Navy should order additional ten Scorpene Submarine instead of three . They should concentrate on indigenous P77 project.

Indian Air force should order additional 36 Rafales and 72 Sukhoi's and concentrate more on Kaveri, Tejas and AMCA.

I can agree with your opinion on the Navy side. But Rafales cannot be delivered in time; by the time they arrive, we might have ongoing trials of the Tejas Mk2.

Sukhoi or any other 4.5 gen fighter isn't worth it. We should be in talks for a 5th-gen fighter right now.

 

[Ajay Singh]

It is imbecilic. They knew from the start that there was no proven AIP on a sub the size they want - it is public knowledge. One does not need to wait all these years and conduct formal evaluations of submarines to find that out. If they want an AIP-fitted sub of a size that doesn’t currently exist anywhere in the world then it is obvious that they must accept an unproven system / new design; or else they must change their requirement to a proven system of a size that exists. It is nothing but wishful writing of specifications and then lacking the courage to take decisions. The Pakistan navy has been operating AIP subs for decades, while India’s submarine fleet dwindles.

 

[kumar]

Either do G2G deal with Germans or go the indegenization route. This cannot go on.

 

[Enforcer]

There is a difference. MRFA is dead while P75I is in coma

MRFA should be cancelled if its not already. Who is even thinking about 4th gen aircrafts? Everyone is either switching to 5th gen or has already. Why waste 20 billion on 114 4th gen aircraft when you can buy 100 or so F35 for roughly the same price. F35 is exactly what we need to counter Chinese and Russian SAMs used by our enemies.

 

[Enforcer]

Right from the beginning approach of two projects MRFA and P75I had been in the wrong direction. It is time to cancel this both projects.

Indian Navy should order additional ten Scorpene Submarine instead of three . They should concentrate on indigenous P77 project.

Indian Air force should order additional 36 Rafales and 72 Sukhoi's and concentrate more on Kaveri, Tejas and AMCA.

While rafale is a good aircraft, its becoming harder and harder to fly 4th gen aircraft in a contested airspace with varieties of SAMs. There is no point in wasting more money on rafale and air force should opt for 100 or so F35. Yes F35 are expensive but that is what we need to operate in contested air space and claim air dominance. Whoever rules the skies, typically wins the war. F35 is particularly designed to operate in chinese and russian airspace.

 

[Bharat Tailor]

If you can't buy with exact matching specs then go for nearest, but for God sake don't delay.
Our enemies are getting stronger day by day

 

[op gupta]

This is in regard to the recent commissioning of two surface and one underwater combatant for the Indian Navy. I don't think there is any significant value addition to India's naval might, not to undermine India's efforts in indigenization. Look at what is happening in the Black Sea: once the almighty Russian Navy has withdrawn all its submarines and warships from that area due to the tactical use of not more than 20 million dollars worth of drones, one may argue the area is small, but Ukrainian tactics have surprised not only Americans but also British defence experts. The Indian Navy should learn from the Ukrainian Navy.

 

[Akshat]

There is a difference. MRFA is dead while P75I is in coma

MRFA is far from dead buddy. It is still an active project with likely approval for RFI coming this year.

 

[Akshat]

MRFA should be cancelled if its not already. Who is even thinking about 4th gen aircrafts? Everyone is either switching to 5th gen or has already. Why waste 20 billion on 114 4th gen aircraft when you can buy 100 or so F35 for roughly the same price. F35 is exactly what we need to counter Chinese and Russian SAMs used by our enemies.

Because we can't even make 4.5 gen planes on our own as of now, thanks to HAL and DRDO?

Because most of the world, including our adversaries, are still buying far more 4th gen planes than 5th gen planes?

Because F35 is not even on offer, let alone with any ToT or local manufacturing or no strings attached?

 

[Akshat]

I can agree with your opinion on the Navy side. But Rafales cannot be delivered in time; by the time they arrive, we might have ongoing trials of the Tejas Mk2.

Sukhoi or any other 4.5 gen fighter isn't worth it. We should be in talks for a 5th-gen fighter right now.

Lol...Rafale can't be delivered on time? Dassault has promised deliveries within 3 years of deal signing. And apart from minor slippages (the only one that actually comes to mind is last year when they delivered 13 instead of 15 promised planes), when has Dassault ever defaulted on delivery timelines?

 

[Akshat]

Right from the beginning approach of two projects MRFA and P75I had been in the wrong direction. It is time to cancel this both projects.

Indian Navy should order additional ten Scorpene Submarine instead of three . They should concentrate on indigenous P77 project.

Indian Air force should order additional 36 Rafales and 72 Sukhoi's and concentrate more on Kaveri, Tejas and AMCA.

Lol...72 more Sukhois? What for? They are more expensive than even Rafale and come without any advanced features like AESA or AI or GaN suite, or with missiles like Meteor, or with high serviceability rates. And 36+72=108, almost the exact amount of planes IAF wants to buy in MRFA. So we would rather use that money to buy whichever plane wins the MRFA. Why waste it on Su30?

 

[Akshay Bisht]

Lol...Rafale can't be delivered on time? Dassault has promised deliveries within 3 years of deal signing. And apart from minor slippages (the only one that actually comes to mind is last year when they delivered 13 instead of 15 promised planes), when has Dassault ever defaulted on delivery timelines?

Last time I heard from Dassault, their production lines were full for the next 3-5 years (at maxed production, since a lot of orders were banging on their door). Also, how can we say that the USA isn't going to interfere with the deal? The world is becoming quite unpredictable for now. Waiting for the Trump government and how they are going to react to our falling squadron numbers and MRFA.

Even if we get Rafale in the next 5-7 years (hypothetically), we still need 5th-gen fighters!

 

[Chinese eater]

Yesterday, it was reported that the Pakistan Navy will outnumber the Indian Navy in AIP submarines even after 2030, while Pakistan has already signed to fly the J-35 and Kaan from Turkey, and India is in analysis paralysis.

 

[Sandeep]

Yesterday, it was reported that the Pakistan Navy will outnumber the Indian Navy in AIP submarines even after 2030, while Pakistan has already signed to fly the J-35 and Kaan from Turkey, and India is in analysis paralysis.

They haven’t signed any 5th generation jet and they can’t afford it either. As for AIP submarines from China you should read more about it’s terrible technology and unreliability reports from Pakistan itself.

We will be installing our own AIP on our submarine during their refit and upgrade stage. Also we have a brilliant and vast number of anti submarine corvette, frigates and destroyers.

 

[Sandeep]

If both companies failed to demonstrate a AIP module based on the specifications and requirements then both have failed.

The danger is that if we decide on a submarine that doesn’t meet the requirements then the other company will just go to court and it will then take even longer to resolve given how the courts work.

The best and quickest option is to just cancel the tender and make a government to government deal and manufacture the submarine in our government owned shipyards. The long delay doesn’t help as soon the technology will be old by the time they manufacture the submarines and it enters service which will take at least 3-4 years to construct the first one and at least 10 years or more to complete all submarines. The tender is already based on technology requirements issued in the last 10 years so it might already be outdated. If they want the latest technology and advanced equipment then making a government to government deal for the latest technology is the best option that cuts down on any delays and money.

The best submarine deal in my opinion was with South Korea as they offered a VLS and AIP for their submarines and nobody had a VLS on any of the submarines on offer. Also the price and technology transfer was reasonable but unfortunately they got tired of waiting for a deal and withdrew from the competition. I’m sure if we made a government to government deal with them then they would be very interested although we won’t get the same technology transfer and price.

 

[Baiju Bhaskaran]

I can agree with your opinion on the Navy side. But Rafales cannot be delivered in time; by the time they arrive, we might have ongoing trials of the Tejas Mk2.

Sukhoi or any other 4.5 gen fighter isn't worth it. We should be in talks for a 5th-gen fighter right now.

Dassault have always delivered Rafales on time, that is delivery starts from three years after confirmed order. Sukhoi is the only aircraft which can fill our squadron shortage without any delay. So if we give order of Rafales this year, the delivery can be completed by 2031. Also if we order additional 72 Sukhoi's that delivery can also be completed by 2031. By that time we can expect the Tejas MK2 production to start and AMCA design to be completed.

 

[Baiju Bhaskaran]

While rafale is a good aircraft, its becoming harder and harder to fly 4th gen aircraft in a contested airspace with varieties of SAMs. There is no point in wasting more money on rafale and air force should opt for 100 or so F35. Yes F35 are expensive but that is what we need to operate in contested air space and claim air dominance. Whoever rules the skies, typically wins the war. F35 is particularly designed to operate in chinese and russian airspace.

The F35 has never been tested for high altitude operations, while Rafales, Tejas and Sukhoi's are perfectly suited for that. I think the F35 will have the same problems the Apache helicopter faced in high altitude.

 

[Akshat]

Last time I heard from Dassault, their production lines were full for the next 3-5 years (at maxed production, since a lot of orders were banging on their door). Also, how can we say that the USA isn't going to interfere with the deal? The world is becoming quite unpredictable for now. Waiting for the Trump government and how they are going to react to our falling squadron numbers and MRFA.

Even if we get Rafale in the next 5-7 years (hypothetically), we still need 5th-gen fighters!

Well if USA is gonna interfere, they might interfere even with the Russian planes with sanctions too, can't they?

As for Dassault, I can pretty much bet that you won't be able to produce a single official statement from Dassault that says they can't take on any new orders. In fact, just last year their CEO said the exact opposite. He openly said that while they do have some challenges in ramping up, their production rate is good enough for new orders, let alone struggling with older orders. And this year, they have actually beaten their own projection. They have significant surplus production capacity already, and are set to ramp it up even further.

So if we do sign a deal today, we can get Rafales in just 3 years, or even lower if we use our heft as a buyer.

 

[Baiju Bhaskaran]

Lol...72 more Sukhois? What for? They are more expensive than even Rafale and come without any advanced features like AESA or AI or GaN suite, or with missiles like Meteor, or with high serviceability rates. And 36+72=108, almost the exact amount of planes IAF wants to buy in MRFA. So we would rather use that money to buy whichever plane wins the MRFA. Why waste it on Su30?

We have to be more practical. Suppose if we give order for MRFA this year, and if everything goes according to plan, still the first aircraft can be delivered only by 2031-32. Three to four years for setting up the assembly line and another two to three years for the first aircraft to roll out. Sukhoi is the only aircraft, where we are least dependent on any other country and immediate production can be started. So if we order 36 Rafales and 72 Sukhoi's, by 2031-32 we can expect complete 108 aircrafts or at near to it.