Russia Resists HAL's Plan to Increase Indigenous Content in AL-31FP Engines, Cites ToT Agreement and IP Rights

India's efforts to boost domestic production of the AL-31FP aero engines, which power the Indian Air Force's Su-30MKI fighter jets, have encountered resistance from Russia.

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) currently produces these engines under license at its Koraput division, with an indigenous content level of less than 54%. HAL aims to increase this to 63% in the coming years, but Russia's reluctance to approve further localization efforts poses a significant challenge.

The primary obstacle lies in the original transfer of technology (ToT) agreement, which stipulates that HAL must source raw materials for the AL-31FP engines exclusively from Russia. This restriction limits HAL's ability to substitute components with locally manufactured parts or utilize Indian alloys without Russian approval.

Although HAL and the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) have formulated plans to replace certain assemblies and sub-assemblies with indigenously produced equivalents, Russia has cautioned that such modifications could void the engines' warranty.

Russia's stance is rooted in its desire to protect its intellectual property (IP) rights over the AL-31FP engines. Moscow seeks to safeguard its proprietary technologies and maintain a degree of control over the production process.

Despite these hurdles, HAL and GTRE remain committed to increasing the indigenization of the AL-31FP engines. Replacing key assemblies with components manufactured using Indian alloys and raw materials is seen as crucial for enhancing the engines' durability and reducing dependence on foreign suppliers.

However, if HAL proceeds with these modifications without Russian authorization, it will have to assume full responsibility for the engines' performance, including providing warranties and after-sales support. This could potentially increase the cost and complexity of maintenance for the Indian Air Force.

 

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[s James]

Good move let's increase the Self reliance
Every year 10%
If need pay one time cost to Russia settle it now .
Hope all property Rights india Holds ,as good will we can support Russian too
Keep moving forward ✨️ Kill the fear

 

[R. Singh]

Better HAL and Sukhoi make a new lighter version of Super Su-30 MKI ( 18 ton) single seat twin engine ! This picture look a like single seat Su-30 !

 

[KVS]

Why not try for a compromises? 🤔
If HAL is confident about its ability to make/get all components locally, why not settle with Russia on TOT entirely through additional payment?🙂

 

[Mithu Roy]

We have got money now therefore we can manage warranty without Russians

 

[sanket]

HAL-GTRE should go ahead and take responsibility for engine performance and after-sales service support. It will be a good move. Already, some components have been produced locally from IAF feedback. The performance was improved after HAL/GTRE-designed components for AL-31FP replaced Russian components. Another eye-opener for naysayers: ToT for the AL-31FP engine.

 

[Anant]

We have got money now therefore we can manage warranty without Russians

Um, what? The simple thing about warranty is that if the engine fails, Russia reimburses us for the engine. Are you saying we should skip the warranty entirely? Do mind that the AL-31FP is a ridiculously expensive engine.

 

[swatkats_razor]

AL-31FP is a ridiculously expensive engine.

I am certain things can be done on the side by GTRE to produce, test, and commission reverse-engineered engines to replace Russian engines. The cost would be justified by the knowledge base this would build, and a warranty can be provided by GTRE.

 

[Arin Kumar]

Why can't we have a secret facility where we will replicate all the russian made parts of AL31FP and integrate them with our already indigenized parts and then test it in our wind tunnels and also with our Su 30 MKI testbed ?
THe fact that we have already indigenized 54% of AL31 FP is highly encouraging. But the remaining 46% must be completed by us only.
China has been doing this since last 15 to 20 years - and they have much deeper and profitable relationship with Russia that India can ever imagine.

It we can have fully indigenously manufactured AL31FP engine - that would be a MASSIVE, MASSIVE achievement for Indian defense industry. Because i believe all other parts of the Su 30 MKI is made in India only - even the weapons and reconnaissance package.

 

[Transhumanist]

First Indian government delinked kaveri engine with Tejas,which then stopped engine's funding. Gladly there were some brilliant engineers who thought that first we could use this for Ghatak UCAV, and then use afterburners to power Tejas. When the kaveri engine was tested it performed better then what was expected. It gave 62 kN thrust instead of expected 58 kN. Now we have to buy expensive engines along with strategic dependency.

 

[desigandu]

Screw the Russians, time to cut the cord and be atmanirbhar! We really need to learn from the Chinese and reverse engineer everything in the name of national security!

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

Su30 russian ignored indian colloboration and without indian permission they sold. Similarly we ignore their legal terms and maximize indigenious content.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

We should create test infra and procure a flying test bed as well. Investing mote on R&D will entually lead us to design and make our own engines. Go ahead with 64+% of indeginization. Test it on few planes. If it works indegenize further.

 

[Baiju Bhaskaran]

Time for HAL, GTRE to take full responsibility of the Sukhoi project. Every time you cannot put on someone else head.

 

[P.K Senapati]

We HAL and DRDO can work to increase indigenious content of Al31F engine.At the same time we also need to take responsibility and challenges involved in putting local material and process.
There will be initial problems but we can
overcome it.

 

[Sos]

Which country is dumb enough to let their profit decrease for sake of friendship with a country who is also ally of its biggest enemy

 

[AK S]

We source all the raw materials and key assemblies for AL31FP form Russia. Unless and until we are near 100%, we cannot cut Russian dependency. In many areas, we have better tech, but Russia doesn’t want to certify. One key area is the blades. Koraput uses Russian liquid crystal blades - it’s at least 1.5 generation behind. DMRL, PTC etc. now has powder crystal blades, which improvs both performance and MTBF. Russians are resisting these deep improvements. My understanding is that Russians, for a handsome fee, will agree to certify. In fact, we are further working on micro cooling holes in powder crystal blades using laser drill - it’s harder problem. Drilling holes in a single crystal without deformation is incredibly tough.

Let’s see.

 

[kumar]

All the more reason to invest in our own engine test infrastructure. When will the government understand that platforms are built around the engine and not the other way around? Even after the GE fiasco, they won't learn.

 

[Rajesh]

Neither the government nor their chamchas are interested in self-reliance except fooling the public and taking their money. If the government had shown the same brain in looting the public as they do with popcorn taxation, we would have an engine ecosystem at least similar to China's by now. We can't achieve results without putting in the effort and money. Create the testing ecosystem first, then employ the right people and fund them appropriately. Anyway, the government is doing the right thing, at least now, by reorganizing the DRDO organization. Utilize public companies properly.

 

[KP]

Um, what? The simple thing about warranty is that if the engine fails, Russia reimburses us for the engine. Are you saying we should skip the warranty entirely? Do mind that the AL-31FP is a ridiculously expensive engine.

Can't we say or do the experiment on 1 or 2 jets only. Thereby limiting the risk and we experiment on the 2 jets and take responsibility of these 2 jets fully. Remaining engines we go by standard agreement as per deal?

 

[Anant]

Can't we say or do the experiment on 1 or 2 jets only. Thereby limiting the risk and we experiment on the 2 jets and take responsibility of these 2 jets fully. Remaining engines we go by standard agreement as per deal?

Not quite. Once you start reverse engineering, the old agreements may even be voided if the IP protection clauses have been violated.

Essentially, this is a one-shot street. Either you commit to reverse-engineering and go with it regardless of the result, or you play safe. If you fail in reverse-engineering, then there'd be penalties to pay or restricted ToT, etc.

 

[Sandeep]

Neither the government nor their chamchas are interested in self-reliance except fooling the public and taking their money. If the government had shown the same brain in looting the public as they do with popcorn taxation, we would have an engine ecosystem at least similar to China's by now. We can't achieve results without putting in the effort and money. Create the testing ecosystem first, then employ the right people and fund them appropriately. Anyway, the government is doing the right thing, at least now, by reorganizing the DRDO organization. Utilize public companies properly.

You’re absolutely wrong. We managed to learn a lot about jet engines and its metallurgy, metal composition, manufacturing processes, engineering, pipes, wiring, fan blades etc because of this deal. There are strict IPR rules and regulations along with the signed contract agreements which makes it clear on what we can do and what we cant do. Also nobody else was prepared to even sell us a western engine so we had no choice and we got a good deal back then.

Under this government we reduced our foreign expensive imports with military weapons, technology, equipment etc. Yes we still buy some weapons but they are only advanced weapons which we are still developing ourselves or will start to soon. We have also increased the amount of indigenous manufacturing and exports which is growing very quickly. We still need to do a lot more but a lot of progress is taking place.

 

[animesh]

I am living in Russia. We must plan to establish joint establishment in India with USA for F seris. Rather than working with Russia. Russia is not a country now for India to work with. They are now so close to China, not only politically, but fully. Even not a single citizen in Russia selects India, if there is and selection between India or China. I have not seen even any good news about Indian progess in Russian journals, but a lot about China. Even the Russian thinks that the GDP calculation is wrong that India is in third place,accoring to them India is a country of third world, from whom nothing to take, only sale diesel, crude oil, arms and take money.

 

[Vikas Yadav 007]

"India's defence sector is poised for a significant leap forward. By establishing a collaborative ecosystem with public and private participants, India can develop and manufacture advanced aircraft engines, such as the F404/F414 for the Tejas, AL31/AL41 for the Su-30MKI, and Safran M88 for the Rafale. This initiative, led by HAL-GTRE, aims to achieve 100% Transfer of Technology (ToT) and Intellectual Property (IP) rights, with 80%to 90% indigenous material usage.

As India strengthens its defence manufacturing capabilities, it will be well-positioned to export these engines to countries purchasing Indian-made aircraft, such as the Tejas, Su-30MKI, or Rafale. Furthermore, this expertise will pave the way for future collaborations with global leaders like Safran or Rolls-Royce to develop sixth-generation engines for next-generation fighter jets, including India's AMCA Mki and mkii, TEDBF, and Tejas .

By 2040, India's defence industries are expected to take a significant leap forward, driven by collaborations between Indian and global companies, as well as expertise from defence R&D, think tanks, ISRO, DRDO, ADE, IITs, and private aviation players. This synergy will enable India to design and develop 100% indigenous engines for defence aircraft, incorporating cutting-edge technologies like deep learning AI, unmanned and manned capabilities, swarming drones, directed-energy weapons, virtual cockpits, and hypersonic weapons."

 

[Amit]

Indian goverenment must spend more money and get GTRE a MIG 29 to test Kaveri engine we have been facing issues with engine since decades yet we are not able to solve this and I do not see any country helping us..we need not beg other countries and need to show pragmatism and spend money and resources to build this engine. We should hire foreign engineers who have made similar engines...we need to be pro active.

 

[sandy 007]

We have got money now therefore we can manage warranty without Russians

We have bought more then 272 SU -30 i think russia must give the technology and Since Russia has made more advanced AL41 engine, it should give free hand to India now, Since We are buying 100 Rafael and french providing engine technology and even supporting kaveri and next Generation engine development then what is the use of buying Russian technology.
What i see Russian doesn't want us to do so that is the real problems with russia.

 

[sandy 007]

We have got money now therefore we can manage warranty without Russians

better reverse the technology no issue. Since we have the technology we can make our own.

 

[Senapati]

If HAL and DRDO are confident they can go ahead with indigenious material and process to replace Russian components with Indian equivalent.
If it violet any cluse of TOT agreement then renegotiate it and if required pay and settle the matter for ever.
We need to increase indigenious content and willing to take responsibility for indigenious components.
They need business.

 

[Mithu Roy]

better reverse the technology no issue. Since we have the technology we can make our own.

That can't happen for an engine since metallurgy,forging, machining and coating technologies required.This is deeply protected and development takes time and huge resources.With GE India will get machining and coating technologies.We had forgings tech to an extent due to adour engines but metallurgy is what no one will give.

 

[Jagroshan singh]

We HAL and DRDO can work to increase indigenious content of Al31F engine.At the same time we also need to take responsibility and challenges involved in putting local material and process.
There will be initial problems but we can
overcome it.

Ya, certainly.
Russia is not saying you can't do that, they are saying it will violate the warrenty and don't come to us later.