Russia's Rostec Pitches Izdeliye 177S Engine as Seamless, Powerful Replacement for Su-30MKI's AL-31FP, Also Scalable for AMCA

Russia's Rostec Pitches Izdeliye 177S Engine as Seamless, Powerful Replacement for Su-30MKI's AL-31FP, Also Scalable for AMCA


At Aero India 2025, held at Yelahanka Air Force Station from February 10th to 14th, Rostec officials confirmed the Izdeliye 177S (Product 177S) engine is being offered to India for both Sukhoi Su-30 MKI fleet upgrades and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) fifth-generation fighter program.

Displayed prominently at the United Engine Corporation (UEC) stand, the Izdeliye 177S is a fifth-generation engine designed for tactical aircraft.

Rostec representatives emphasized its advanced features, including increased thrust compared to the AL-31FP engines currently powering the Indian Air Force's (IAF) Su-30 MKI fleet.

The 177S boasts a service life of up to 6,000 hours, a threefold increase over the AL-31FP, and incorporates modern technologies for improved fuel efficiency and lower operational costs.

The engine's design incorporates elements from the AL-51 (Izdeliye 30), the second-stage engine developed for Russia's Su-57 stealth fighter. While the AL-51 remains under testing, the 177S utilizes some of its advanced features, such as an improved thrust-to-weight ratio and enhanced reliability.
 
Why not izdeliya 30 itself? But still it is much more powerful than f414 and 6000hr is also good for russian engine if true, not sure about its stealth profile though.
 
That's good option & it will make pressure on US who is delaying & holding Engine even after signing contract. I still think for Super sukhoi upgrade IAF should consider Izdeliye-177S after upgrade not Only Thrust to weight Ratio increases but it can also fire Heavy weapons too.
 
Offers are coming at record numbers but our govt is not evaluating a single of this...common for god sake speed up the process...how a govt can be so lethargic for its national security...wtf our defence officials doing...speed up AMCA...
 
If this is true that it's offered for local manufacturing, and if the service life is 6000hrs with fuel efficiency improvements of 15%, then it's only logical that we go for it!

It does not make any sense to go with AL-31F with 2000hrs of service life just because after 20 years we are able to assemble it with only 54% indigenous content!

We need sensible, educated and knowledgeable experts in the decision making who are shielded and the procurement process is protected from the arms dealers and OEMs!
 
Our requirement is full TOT, manufacturing process with IP rights. Will Russia provide those.. if yes then we must consider it
That’s not happening either with Russia or the US. Only France or UK would do because they don’t have it and would like to use our money to get there.
 
If this is true that it's offered for local manufacturing, and if the service life is 6000hrs with fuel efficiency improvements of 15%, then it's only logical that we go for it!

It does not make any sense to go with AL-31F with 2000hrs of service life just because after 20 years we are able to assemble it with only 54% indigenous content!

We need sensible, educated and knowledgeable experts in the decision making who are shielded and the procurement process is protected from the arms dealers and OEMs!
It will cost a lot more … license fee, training, and infrastructure. Though the benefits are very much there, the tech itself is comparable to the GE F414. It’s not a generation ahead. So, tech-wise, we might be better off with the GE F414. The only problem is Americans are not reliable partners.

In my opinion, the current course is just fine. Maybe even better than jumping to new engines for the Su-30MKI. We are continuously improving the Indian version of the AL-31, and MTBH is now well over 3000 hours. We are changing the blades from a liquid crystal process to a dry one with micro-holes. It will further improve the MTBH … maybe over 4000 hours. This is a decent number.

Things will change radically if the Su-57 wins the MRFA.
 
Why not izdeliya 30 itself? But still it is much more powerful than f414 and 6000hr is also good for russian engine if true, not sure about its stealth profile though.
If the engine is coming with full ToT, it will bring enormous benefits. When I say full ToT, the ToT should include the Pumps, FADEC, AGB in addition to the core engine ToT. The most important factor is the total life cycle costs which should include installation and removal from the aircraft, the extent of field repairability etc.,
 
That’s not happening either with Russia or the US. Only France or UK would do because they don’t have it and would like to use our money to get there.
France/Safran is hesitant to provide full IP rights. RR is more open and more experienced in the field, hence being reported as the frontrunner for the engine deal.
 
We need to finalize the manufacturing ASAP so our pilots can focus on fighting and use the AMCA in the skies to train with the loyal wingman, other drones, and planes.
 
This is a very good offer..IAF must install in it's Super Sukhoi which will give it more power for it's AESA radar, heavier weapons payload including hypersonic missiles , doubled engine lifecycle and allow 5-gen tech access to our engineers ..
 
Offers are coming at record numbers but our govt is not evaluating a single of this...common for god sake speed up the process...how a govt can be so lethargic for its national security...wtf our defence officials doing...speed up AMCA...
The lethargy is from defense department side not from elected Govt.
 
While the offer is mouth watering, we have 2 major problems.

First is from reliability. Russian equipment have been easier to get but difficult to maintain. High number of Russian fighter jets spend time in maitenance hangers than on the field. With recent sanctions, the parts are also not coming easily.

Second if from United States. They will try more and more to prevent India getting access to superior Russians to preserve their monopoly and control. They already have put on sanctions where Russian can no more have $$ transactions. Now it has given warning to India to not evade sanctions by making transactions in INR and bypassing dollar. This way they will either want India to buy US jets or engines and will keep it steeply priced along with delayed deliveries.
 
This engine 177S is a 5th generation stealth technology engine with stealth features in airintake inlet and exit nozzle.
It has been offered for Sukhoi upgradation super sukhoi program.
It can also be considered for AMCA as ithas sufficient dry thrust for super cruise.
 
India has already made it clear that they don’t want to use any Russian engines. They won’t transfer 100% of the technology or allow us to manufacture that amount of the engine.

So far Safran and Rolls Royce have offered 100% of the technology and manufacture it indigenously using raw materials. So now we need to quickly make a deal as it will take about 6-8 years to design, develop and manufacture a brand new engine.
 
A known friend comes to your house and makes you an unusually favourable offer. You are initially taken aback and you are sceptical. To prove his point he brings the jet fighter in question to participate in your festival called Air show. True to his word, he show cases the capabilities of the jet, which performs very well. He has another friend who you don't get along with and the jet he has brought to your home defeats the other persons self made jet of the same category. Sportingly the crowd stands up and applauds your friend and his equipment.

So here in your house, the friend also exhibits an advanced Engine which can be used in your existent jets and also in his new jet. He further remembers and visits your production line to make a site visit. Turns out your production line already has much of the equipment needed to produce the jet he wants to sell. Some tool and die machines need to be made. Your friend agrees to complete ToT including the engine , and details of the new jet.

The engine he exhibits has already undergone extensive tests and production ready. It perfectly fits your modernisation programme for 259 jets. And for the twin engines of the new jet. He is already testing another advanced jet which he is prepared to give to you when it is production ready. He also offers you a partnership in a civilian jet manufacturing programme and to set up a separate production line for that.

Since both of you belong to the same club, your friend is willing to take Rupee payments. There is another new friend of yours who has not fulfilled an existing contract. He is supposed to have the best 5 gen planes in the world.( his claims). The jet is in the news for bizzare accidents like wheels not lowering on time, the cockpit canopy opening suddenly. The most bizzare of all, your two friends were supposed to engage in mock combat, but the new friend withdraws suddenly with no reasons mentioned. And he owes you a supply of 179 engines, running behind schedule , seriously affecting your defence capability. And you need to pay him in dollars.

The new friend is known to provoke proxy wars all over the world, he feels threatened by your neighbour who he considers his no 1 enemy. In another part of the world he forced his friend to fight a proxy war and ensured his complete destruction, including loss of money, lives, soil fertility, economy and he turned him into a basket case, and simply walked away. Who will you trust? I leave the judgement to you.

Tail Piece:The SU-57's appeal has increased because of the unique level of combat testing it underwent in the Ukrainian theatre, with operations including air defence suppression, air to air combat, and operations in heavily defended enemy airspace, as well as a range of precision strike missions using both internally and externally deployed missiles. The Indian Air Force, as part of it's assessment of an aircraft's performance, takes into account it's service record in the Russian Air Force before placing orders.
 
Lets make it easier to understand - More service life means more training hours for the pilots which means better chances to shoot down enemy planes.

Example -Pak's F16 pilots will be more trained and more lethal due to American engine with life of 8000hrs+.Pak's JF-17 pilots will be less trained and less lethal due to Russian engine with life of 2000hrs.

Russia itself wouldn't have too much worry about the short engine life span for training because they can make new engines and swap them out.

BUT short engine life is a huge problem for Russia in times of war because jets have to be grounded for long periods of time to do maintenance. Hence it VERY VERY bad for operational availability of air force. You can rectify the problem by having more planes but then the cost goes up.

Example-India has over 250 SU30 - 50 percent readiness means only 125 are airworthy anytime.
 
If we don't invest (like China has done) in building up educational and research organisations from college/university level towards the study of materials science, precision engineering (for aero-engine development), and aeronautical engineering, we will still be beholden to Russia or the USA 50 years from now. And this engine-buying cycle will never stop. One of the reasons why ISRO is so successful now is that it was forced to develop its own rocket engines (CE20) when the USA and the West put sanctions on India.

We should rather cut funds from these Ladli Behen Yojana schemes and fund the completion of the Kaveri engine, using our own engineers – not some foreign technology + Kaveri, but the full engine developed by our own. Then we will have a working testbed from which we can take our developments further.
 
A known friend comes to your house and makes you an unusually favourable offer. You are initially taken aback and you are sceptical. To prove his point he brings the jet fighter in question to participate in your festival called Air show. True to his word, he show cases the capabilities of the jet, which performs very well. He has another friend who you don't get along with and the jet he has brought to your home defeats the other persons self made jet of the same category. Sportingly the crowd stands up and applauds your friend and his equipment.

So here in your house, the friend also exhibits an advanced Engine which can be used in your existent jets and also in his new jet. He further remembers and visits your production line to make a site visit. Turns out your production line already has much of the equipment needed to produce the jet he wants to sell. Some tool and die machines need to be made. Your friend agrees to complete ToT including the engine , and details of the new jet.

The engine he exhibits has already undergone extensive tests and production ready. It perfectly fits your modernisation programme for 259 jets. And for the twin engines of the new jet. He is already testing another advanced jet which he is prepared to give to you when it is production ready. He also offers you a partnership in a civilian jet manufacturing programme and to set up a separate production line for that.

Since both of you belong to the same club, your friend is willing to take Rupee payments. There is another new friend of yours who has not fulfilled an existing contract. He is supposed to have the best 5 gen planes in the world.( his claims). The jet is in the news for bizzare accidents like wheels not lowering on time, the cockpit canopy opening suddenly. The most bizzare of all, your two friends were supposed to engage in mock combat, but the new friend withdraws suddenly with no reasons mentioned. And he owes you a supply of 179 engines, running behind schedule , seriously affecting your defence capability. And you need to pay him in dollars.

The new friend is known to provoke proxy wars all over the world, he feels threatened by your neighbour who he considers his no 1 enemy. In another part of the world he forced his friend to fight a proxy war and ensured his complete destruction, including loss of money, lives, soil fertility, economy and he turned him into a basket case, and simply walked away. Who will you trust? I leave the judgement to you.

Tail Piece:The SU-57's appeal has increased because of the unique level of combat testing it underwent in the Ukrainian theatre, with operations including air defence suppression, air to air combat, and operations in heavily defended enemy airspace, as well as a range of precision strike missions using both internally and externally deployed missiles. The Indian Air Force, as part of it's assessment of an aircraft's performance, takes into account it's service record in the Russian Air Force before placing orders.
But the new friend has danda in his hands and threatens to bring down your house, what do you do? Have you got courage to stand up to this bully? GOI is the deciding authority not IAF.
 
That’s not happening either with Russia or the US. Only France or UK would do because they don’t have it and would like to use our money to get there.
France already told GyOI that they can offer only partial IPR, with a life-long license fee payment. This is why we are talking with the UK.
 

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