Russia's Rostec Pitches Izdeliye 177S Engine as Seamless, Powerful Replacement for Su-30MKI's AL-31FP, Also Scalable for AMCA

At Aero India 2025, held at Yelahanka Air Force Station from February 10th to 14th, Rostec officials confirmed the Izdeliye 177S (Product 177S) engine is being offered to India for both Sukhoi Su-30 MKI fleet upgrades and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) fifth-generation fighter program.

Displayed prominently at the United Engine Corporation (UEC) stand, the Izdeliye 177S is a fifth-generation engine designed for tactical aircraft.

Rostec representatives emphasized its advanced features, including increased thrust compared to the AL-31FP engines currently powering the Indian Air Force's (IAF) Su-30 MKI fleet.

The 177S boasts a service life of up to 6,000 hours, a threefold increase over the AL-31FP, and incorporates modern technologies for improved fuel efficiency and lower operational costs.

The engine's design incorporates elements from the AL-51 (Izdeliye 30), the second-stage engine developed for Russia's Su-57 stealth fighter. While the AL-51 remains under testing, the 177S utilizes some of its advanced features, such as an improved thrust-to-weight ratio and enhanced reliability.

 

[AK S]

If the Su-57 wins the MRFA and we get acceptable ToT and rights to modify the AL-51, then the Izdeliye 177S Su-30 MKI makes sense. Without that, the AL-31 is just fine. Besides, we have been improving the MTBF of the Indian version of the AL-31. As such, a cost-benefit analysis doesn’t favour the new engine overwhelmingly. In fact, licence fees and costs of training and infrastructure go against the new engine.

 

[beencensured]

It will cost a lot more … license fee, training, and infrastructure. Though the benefits are very much there, the tech itself is comparable to the GE F414. It’s not a generation ahead. So, tech-wise, we might be better off with the GE F414. The only problem is Americans are not reliable partners.

In my opinion, the current course is just fine. Maybe even better than jumping to new engines for the Su-30MKI. We are continuously improving the Indian version of the AL-31, and MTBH is now well over 3000 hours. We are changing the blades from a liquid crystal process to a dry one with micro-holes. It will further improve the MTBH … maybe over 4000 hours. This is a decent number.

Things will change radically if the Su-57 wins the MRFA.

It has a higher thrust-to-weight ratio and fifth-generation capabilities, meaning a lower IR/radar signature. Again, there's probably no need to replace Su-30MKI engines, but I am not against getting the best deal, as we cannot be stuck at another nation's whims. These MOD/babus and others should really invest in the development of engines, give proper testing facilities, instead of being loyal to their commissions and foreign agents. Certainly, if the GOI was run correctly, they would have kicked 90% of foreign purchases like the MQ-9 ($4 billion), German experimental subs ($8 billion), Stryker, cancelled the MRFA as outdated, Naval Rafale ($8.3 billion), and so on, and invested in indigenous weapons. Start four to five engine programs—civilian/cargo/MTA/military planes—and work on a sixth-generation program. Instead of destroying our military budget, buy some American oil, energy plants, water treatment plants, etc.

 

[beencensured]

But the new friend has danda in his hands and threatens to bring down your house, what do you do? Have you got courage to stand up to this bully? GOI is the deciding authority not IAF.

Why buy something you do not need as Trump wants to balance trade and so buy oil, power plants, water treatment plants, and etc. Why destroy the countries development because of junk as defense budget is limited.

 

[Varaaah]

Make your own engine, with or without help. "Videsh ki murgi, daal baraabar."

 

[Raakbas]

But the new friend has danda in his hands and threatens to bring down your house, what do you do? Have you got courage to stand up to this bully? GOI is the deciding authority not IAF.

The new friend always had a Danda in his hands, ever since we built our house! He is a "new" friend because for most of the time after our independence and building our new home, he has been inimical to us and siding with our western neighbour.

Now with his sweet, seductive words, he is trying to pull us to his side because he fears our Eastern neighbour and wants to make use of us like he used Ukraine against Russia. Just because we have border wall dispute with our Eastern neighbour, our new friend thinks he could exploit the situation and seduce us to become his camp follower. The friend however has a well earned reputation for use and throw, as Ukraine and the EU are finding out now.

One important trait of our new friend is he can be nobody's friend as he thinks he is born to rule the world which he hides behind using words like "democracy" " human rights" and " women's rights". He will make a big fuss about these things but in reality, these are only sticks he uses to beat others with.

About 4 years ago, our Eastern neighbour threatened us and tested us, as they thought they had got a measure of our PM and his party. Note however, they treated Vajpayee Ji and his Govt with respect! When we were in trouble, our armed forces responded quickly and with alacrity, and they did not flinch or show fear, when they were in a eye ball to eye ball confrontation. Our new friend , at best would have shared some intelligence, but otherwise he did nothing.

In the same way as we took on our Eastern neighbour, we have to tackle our new friend with the Danda. It begins with our understanding that our new friend can be nobody's friend (so no more fawning and learning to protect our interests) as he knows only two kinds of relationships that of a master and a slave, or that of being an enemy. We also need to understand his big house is on fire because of neglect, wastage and poor management. Anyway, he is not unduly bound to give us technology or help us and we have to pull ourselves by our bootstraps. Moreover his ideology of Neo liberalism is such a big failure that his own people are beginning to realise that.

Make no mistake, our new friend is very self aware so much that he himself hums the proverb" to be an enemy of America can be dangerous but to be it's friend is fatal." You decide now.

 

[Rajesh]

Until there is a 100 percent technology transfer and India is able to manufacture that engine in-house, there is no use going for a new engine, though it would be better for the Su-30 in the longer run because Russian engines are not on par with the West. There are no gains in taking a risk unless its reliability and performance prove otherwise. And if they somehow agree to our terms, then the Su-30 fleet can have a better engine and performance, and we can make our jets around this engine, at least the Mk2, similar to the J-10 or F-16.

 

[legolas4444]

I think Russian technology is overrated. We saw them in the Ukraine war.

 

[हरिः व्योम]

The 177-S is a beast compared to AMCA requirements by size and dimensions. It is not a fit, unless the AMCA expands to a larger platform.

I honestly think the BrahMos afterburner, along with Midhani and GTRE, should be used. We must do this ourselves. Why Rolls-Royce, Safran, nonsense? Take your time, as we have delinked the Kaveri and Ganga projects.

Now focus on the GE 414 deliveries, and develop the 110kN (flat rating, by the way – so, ~125kN) engine all by ourselves.

 

[beencensured]

France already told GyOI that they can offer only partial IPR, with a life-long license fee payment. This is why we are talking with the UK.

It is always cheaper and more logical to give proper facilities to scientists and engineers to test engines, conduct flight tests, and perform high-altitude tests, rather than doing these types of one-off deals. By developing proper facilities, we can test several classes of engines, make more experimental designs, and perhaps eventually lead in the field. After all, even if this deal is said and done, we still have no facilities for flight testing or high-altitude testing. And if this deal, which is strange in that it takes ten years to complete/develop, fails for geopolitical reasons, sanctions, changes in government (Modi, then who in 4.5 years, and the UK too?), or many other reasons, then we are back to zero. A huge investment, yet no guarantee of success. But investing in India, at least we would not be at a loss.

 

[Scooter2000]

The best solution for India is to collaborate with South Korea on their new engine for the KF-21, as it would fit both aircraft (AMCA and KF-21). They both need partners, too.

 

[Scooter2000]

It can easily fit in AMCA if it fits in MIG-29.

No, the RD-33/RD-93 are much bigger than the F414 class of engine.

 

[Scooter2000]

If the Su-57 wins the MRFA and we get acceptable ToT and rights to modify the AL-51, then the Izdeliye 177S Su-30 MKI makes sense. Without that, the AL-31 is just fine. Besides, we have been improving the MTBF of the Indian version of the AL-31. As such, a cost-benefit analysis doesn’t favour the new engine overwhelmingly. In fact, licence fees and costs of training and infrastructure go against the new engine.

The Su-57 is the least capable 5th Generation Fighter and hardly better than existing 4.5 Generation Fighters and actually inferior in some respects. Honestly, the best solution without a doubt for the MRFA is the KF-21 as it checks all of the boxes! Its more advanced and offers technology transfer. Plus, it can be built with the highest Indian content (F414s, Uttam AESA Radar, and armed with Astra Missiles) and most of the same systems as the AMCA!