Why India Chose US LM2500 Engines for Naval Ships Despite Having Indigenous Kaveri Engine or Other European Alternatives

The Indian Navy's recent agreement with GE Aerospace for the supply of LM2500 gas turbine engines has ignited a debate across the country, particularly on social media. While the deal aims to bolster the Navy's capabilities and promote local assembly by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), critics have voiced concerns about India's continued reliance on US defence technology amidst recent Pannun row.

This decision comes at a time when India is striving for self-reliance in defence production under its "Make in India" initiative. Many argue that prioritizing indigenous development or exploring alternatives from friendly European nations would better serve the nation's long-term strategic goals. The core issue lies in the perception that despite efforts to foster domestic production, India continues to depend heavily on foreign solutions.

The LM2500 engines, however, boast a proven track record within the Indian Navy, powering key vessels like the Shivalik-class frigates, Nilgiri-class frigates, and the INS Vikrant aircraft carrier. These engines are renowned for their reliability, efficiency, and durability, having been refined over decades of use in diverse maritime environments. This extensive experience contrasts with past issues faced with Zorya gas turbine engines sourced from Ukraine, which have suffered from reliability and support challenges, particularly in light of the ongoing conflict in that region.

Proponents of the deal highlight the local assembly aspect, emphasizing its contribution to India's burgeoning defence manufacturing ecosystem. While not fully manufactured in India, this arrangement is seen as a step toward self-reliance, fostering job creation, industrial capacity building, and technology transfer.

The LM2500's high power-to-weight ratio, fuel efficiency, and ease of maintenance make it a compelling choice for a range of naval platforms. Its 30 MW power output is well-suited for frigates and aircraft carriers, fulfilling the Navy's immediate needs.

However, domestic alternatives like the Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine (KMGT), currently under development by DRDO, are not yet mature enough for widespread naval deployment. Developing a gas turbine engine from scratch is a complex endeavor, and achieving a domestically produced engine that meets the Navy's stringent requirements will take time.

European options, such as Rolls-Royce's MT30 and Siemens' SGT-500, also present challenges. The MT30, while powerful, is larger and more expensive, potentially posing integration difficulties for Indian naval vessels. The SGT-500, primarily used for industrial purposes, lacks the extensive naval track record of the LM2500. Switching to a new engine supplier would also necessitate costly and complex reconfiguration of existing platforms and infrastructure.

While acknowledging concerns about defence dependence on US, the Indian government officials maintains that the LM2500 deal represents a pragmatic and strategically sound choice in the absence of a readily available indigenous or European alternative with comparable power, efficiency, and proven reliability. The local assembly by HAL is considered a bridging gap until domestic engines like the KMGT reach maturity.

 

[R. Singh]

Better we power of ACs with electric power seeking tech from BAE !

 

[sanket]

Mfg Locally is First step But developing own Engine should b priority , In Future never know US mood can change , Only way is Atmanirbar

 

[Mithu Roy]

I think Bharat forge had bought stakes in zorya in Ukraine and slowly this firm will get into engines since core competencies converge.Bharat forge is renowned for forging and machining and this is what any modern engines require.once we learn forging and machining metallurgy can follow

 

[Sridhar]

Mfg Locally is First step But developing own Engine should b priority , In Future never know US mood can change , Only way is Atmanirbar

I agree. But somewhere the learning should start.
This deal can help in the indigenous version.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

No other viable option other LM2500. Maybe things will change when kaveri Marine gas tuebine gets active.

 

[Anant]

No other viable option other LM2500. Maybe things will change when kaveri Marine gas tuebine gets active.

It won't. The KMGT is not exactly a LM2500 alternative. The KMGT is rated at 12 MW, which makes it unsuitable for anything larger than a small corvette. The only thing is that something like the KMGT could be used on the NGMV frigates (as discussed here), but for frigates and larger ships, the KMGT won't work.

 

[ramdas]

Don't know why the Indian Navy gives priority to US-manufactured engines when they know what happened to the IAF F404. RR manufactures the best marine engines. Even though it's costlier but worth it and less American arm-twisting due to geopolitics

 

[Bikramjeet Goswami]

I think Bharat forge had bought stakes in zorya in Ukraine and slowly this firm will get into engines since core competencies converge.Bharat forge is renowned for forging and machining and this is what any modern engines require.once we learn forging and machining metallurgy can follow

They purchased 51% in the Indian arm of Zorya, not the original firm in Ukraine. No production takes place in India. Lot of Ukrainian industrial facilities have been targeted by Russia, there were reports that the Zorya factory has been damaged. Not much hope in that direction.

 

[Srinivas]

Atmanirbhar is not achieved unless we indigenously build engines that replace GE or Rolls Royce. The Zorya engines are a piece of junk. HAL assembling engines is akin to screw driver technology. Kaveri Marine GT is another 25 years away. So GE is the only choice now.

 

[Bikramjeet Goswami]

Atmanirbhar is not achieved unless we indigenously build engines that replace GE or Rolls Royce. The Zorya engines are a piece of junk. HAL assembling engines is akin to screw driver technology. Kaveri Marine GT is another 25 years away. So GE is the only choice now.

Kaveri isn't in the same class either, has a much lower power output.

 

[GMR]

It won't. The KMGT is not exactly a LM2500 alternative. The KMGT is rated at 12 MW, which makes it unsuitable for anything larger than a small corvette. The only thing is that something like the KMGT could be used on the NGMV frigates (as discussed here), but for frigates and larger ships, the KMGT won't work.

The technology, once developed and matured, can always be scaled up / down as per requirement. But the inefficiency, lack of commitment, lack of accountability, burocracy, etc., etc.. are making everything decade long projects which is leading to rottenness in system..

 

[GMR]

The same was my reaction when read earlier published article... our whole system is more comfortable in the easier way of importing. Come on, we are still importing engines for Tanks, armored vehicles, forget about aero or marine ones and dreaming about becoming defence super power.... not happening,

 

[ASHOK CARROL]

Since 1984 Indian navy started sending brilliant naval officers for Mtechs and Phds in gas turbines to American Ivy league institutes . Talent was allowed to retire and go waste . Indian public, private companies with navy and IAF must conceive develop and produce Aero engines , gas turbines and ship based engines within a time period .Till that time the GE -2500 a proven work horse be indegnised and used in corvettes , frigates and destroyers for common spares , maintenance and logistics and the British MT built under licence be used for heavy destroyers and bigger ships planned .

 

[The_rED_dEVIL]

Mfg Locally is First step But developing own Engine should b priority , In Future never know US mood can change , Only way is Atmanirbar

According to Next Generation Corvette article in Wikipedia, these corvettes will be fitted with indigenous marine diesel engines. The development and manufacturing of the engines will probably be carried out by Kirloskar Oil Engines Ltd and GRSE.

So, this maybe followed by gas turbines for larger category ships.

 

[The Presence]

The same was my reaction when read earlier published article... our whole system is more comfortable in the easier way of importing. Come on, we are still importing engines for Tanks, armored vehicles, forget about aero or marine ones and dreaming about becoming defence super power.... not happening,

Let the hardware sector alone.

Even the so called "Software Superpower" India can't develop any viable alternatives to the softwares produced by Google/Microsoft, but relegated to do 15k/Month IT Coolie-work which will soon be gobbled up by AI-ML.

Any promising product turns out to be an overhyped Ola or Byjus.

 

[obiwankenubi jedi]

Yes then let's get an Indian or European engine made in India for our naval ships.

The fact remains that there are none, the Ukrainian Zorya-Mashproekt gas turbines, despite being used for decades in frontline Indian ships, were never made or assembled in India.

Not sure if Kalyani will do MRO or manufacture these in India. But this is needed to maintain the existing Soviet and Russian ships in the fleet.

So best option would be to go with GE LM2500 which are used in the new indigenous ships of the Indian navy, and best would be to manufacturer them locally and setup MRO in India fast.

So the Navy is smarter than the airforce and deciding fast and going with a mix of tried and tested for the existing and new fleet, hopefully with local MRO atleast if not make in India, with HAL.

 

[Pad UwU]

Just buy alternative from German MTU, Wartsilla, UK BAE SYSTEMS MTU and others LMAO 😹😹😹

 

[A K Tiwari]

In India we wasted 70 years after independence. I was myself frustrated with lack of Government will & support during my stint at the Nuclear Fuel Complex. Most of us were eager to experiment with cutting edge technology. Those days, in their hearts the higher ups only wished to import.

 

[A K Tiwari]

They purchased 51% in the Indian arm of Zorya, not the original firm in Ukraine. No production takes place in India. Lot of Ukrainian industrial facilities have been targeted by Russia, there were reports that the Zorya factory has been damaged. Not much hope in that direction.

War does not damage the record of drawings and data sheets. My firm Sulzer Hydro in Ravensburg Germany was fully destroyed during WW2 only to rise from the ashes in 1945 and supply Turbines all over the world including the Bhakra dam in India during 1954.

 

[Bikramjeet Goswami]

War does not damage the record of drawings and data sheets. My firm Sulzer Hydro in Ravensburg Germany was fully destroyed during WW2 only to rise from the ashes in 1945 and supply Turbines all over the world including the Bhakra dam in India during 1954.

Zorya's designs are no doubt stored safely - digitally or otherwise. But the loss of their production tooling and perhaps their personnel would be a severe blow. The city they are based in might end up in Russian hands. The Russians might be interested in restarting production given that pre-hostilities they were the primary customers. If it remains in Ukraine I doubt the West would provide the funds to revive a competitor. But if its ever up for sale I'd say it might be a good buy for some Indian company.

 

[Kira]

It won't. The KMGT is not exactly a LM2500 alternative. The KMGT is rated at 12 MW, which makes it unsuitable for anything larger than a small corvette. The only thing is that something like the KMGT could be used on the NGMV frigates (as discussed here), but for frigates and larger ships, the KMGT won't work.

Good explanation, there is a crucial reason why IN sticks with a proven design as it's the most pragmatic and progressive out of the 3 services.

 

[Anshuman Dev]

No viable alternative seems to be available at present.
Better, keep some extra spare engines and try to evolve Kaveri Marine engine on the lines of LM2500.
USA envisions itself as the most developed country in the world (Not totally wrong, it has worked hard to achieve that status since WWII), so it would undoubtedly twist India's arm to subdue it's independent (sometimes puzzling) stands....

 

[Jeevan]

GE s LM2500 has a long proven track record.
people who operate and maintain it know the pain it inflicts ,but of all the options it looks to be a better choice.

 

[Varaaah]

Attract some retired specialists from Russia, US or Europe to give the finishing touch to the Kaveri and its derivates.
When the West attracts Indian brains, why can India not get foreign brains? Without having the competent brains, you will not develop things quickly.