Why India Ditched FGFA 5th-Gen Fighter Jet Program with Russia? $25B Price, Limited Control and Stealth Shortcomings Were Major Factors

India's decision to withdraw from the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) program with Russia was a significant turning point in its pursuit of advanced fighter capabilities.

While concerns about the aircraft's technical limitations, particularly its stealth capabilities, were widely reported, the program's exorbitant cost appears to have been the decisive factor in India's withdrawal.

Initially, the FGFA program, based on Russia's PAK-FA or Sukhoi T-50 platform, was envisioned as a collaborative venture with a 50:50 design and work-share agreement. This promised India a significant role in developing a cutting-edge stealth fighter.

However, as the program progressed, India's participation became increasingly limited, with Russia retaining control over most of the design and development work.

Reports indicated that India would have needed to invest an estimated $25 billion to see the FGFA project through to completion and induct 127 fighters into the Indian Air Force (IAF).

This staggering cost included expenses for development, production, and operational deployment. The high price tag raised serious concerns about the program's affordability, especially when weighed against other pressing needs in India's defence budget.

Furthermore, India would have had to compromise on its initial 50:50 design and work-share arrangement, effectively reducing its role to that of a buyer rather than a co-developer. This diminished role significantly undercut the strategic and technological benefits India had hoped to gain from the partnership.

While financial concerns were central, technical issues with the FGFA also influenced India's decision. The aircraft faced criticism for its:

• Pseudo-stealth capabilities: The PAK-FA platform lacked true stealth features comparable to other fifth-generation fighters like the F-35 or F-22.
• Underwhelming performance: Concerns arose regarding engine reliability, radar cross-section (RCS), and sensor fusion, raising doubts about the FGFA's overall combat effectiveness.

These shortcomings suggested that the FGFA might not fully meet the IAF's operational requirements, making the substantial financial investment even harder to justify.

India's withdrawal from the FGFA program marked a shift in its approach to acquiring fifth-generation fighter capabilities. Instead of relying on foreign platforms, India has prioritized developing its own Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). This program aims to deliver a true fifth-generation fighter tailored to the IAF's specific needs and built with significant indigenous content.

By focusing on the AMCA, India aims to develop critical technologies domestically, reduce its reliance on foreign suppliers, and align its defence industry with the "Aatmanirbhar Bharat" (self-reliant India) vision. This strategic shift reflects India's growing ambition to become a major player in the global aerospace and defence market.

 

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[PKPRS]

You want us to spend $25 billion for a fighter jet which had RCS higher than a clean F18? Even our Tejas is almost as stealthy as this "5th generation" fighter which btw also lacks sensor fusion capabilities.

Most information about SU-57 is classified, Nobody other than the Russians know the exact RCS or the price, so you wanted us to fight 5th gen jets from three Countries with Tejas Mk1A and wait for AMCA endlessly, realistically HAL/ADA doesn't have any clue as to how to make a 5th gen jet, let alone 100% 4.5 gen jet, we can only make AMCA through partnership, Rafale F3 can't fight 5th gen jets, Chinese are improving day by day, SU-57 is better than Chinese stealth jets or French 4.5 gen jet any day, besides France is asking $300Mln for basic Rafale F3, we wont be offered F35 with S400 and Voronezh OTH Stealth Aircraft detecting Radar, the closest to 5th gen jet in this competition is Typhoon in Tranche 5 form with LTE, nothing else is closer to 5th gen.

 

[Rational Guy]

We spent $8.8 billion to buy 36 Gen 4.5 non-stealth fighters (4 fighters to $1 billion). We did not get any tech transfer. If we spent $25 billion and got 127 Su-57 starting in 2020 and ending in 2027, which are ~5th Gen aircraft, without any tech transfer, we are still better off - just on a cost-per-plane basis (5 fighters to $1 billion).

Lol SU57 is not even 5th generation it's RCS (in Sukhois own admission) is literally as much as a clean F18 AND it lacks sensor fusion capabilities. It's glorified 4.75 Gen fighter.

 

[Rational Guy]

The Su-57 is nowhere near the F-22, as we have already seen. If nothing else, the Su-57 only has a smaller RCS forward, while the other sides have a fairly large RCS. Oh, and the thrust vectoring engine thing is still some time away.

It is a potent fighter, yes, but to compare it to the F-22 would be to compare something like the MiG-21bis to a F-16C or something.

Russia lovers forget America has over 150 F22 and over 1000 F35 while Russia barely has 50 SU57, and 1 F22 can most likely kill 5-6 SU57 due to superior stealth hence first see first shoot!

 

[PKPRS]

Best option buy 36 more Rafales for like $10-15 billion spend rest $25 billion for Kaveri/Tejas MK2/AMCA (and also make sure DRDO HAL implements critical reforms).

36 more Rafales will cost us $15Bln now after adjusting inflation, and we have to wait for 10years to recieve the first Rafale due to it's excessive backlog of 254 jets, Dassault makes 10-11/year, we won't be needing a foreign 4th gen jet in 2035, we will be having hundreds of Tejas MK2 at that time.

 

[Muthukumar Ponnambalam]

Not sure how Russia was not willing to share technologies and provide a joint platform for co-delopement, considering its state economy and the 25 billion India could've brought in. Definitely a loss for Russia and good that India didn't fall prey for any arm twisting / luring / enticing / tempting efforts.

 

[tipoo2]

And now we'll pay even more for waiting an extra decade with no such fighter on our hands. The Rafale costs way more than when we found it with an empty line, so will this, everything will cost more the more we wait.

 

[tipoo2]

It was a good decision to leave the project at that point. What we missed is expediting our own project. We moved so slowly either thinking that our adversaries will wait till we match them or thinking that eventually imports will happen.

Yes, withdrawing from FGFA should have been simultaneous with clearing the AMCA funding, not waiting another decade to do that. Imagine where we'd be if AMCA got going in earnest a decade ago and not basically yesterday.

 

[tipoo2]

We spent $8.8 billion to buy 36 Gen 4.5 non-stealth fighters (4 fighters to $1 billion). We did not get any tech transfer. If we spent $25 billion and got 127 Su-57 starting in 2020 and ending in 2027, which are ~5th Gen aircraft, without any tech transfer, we are still better off - just on a cost-per-plane basis (5 fighters to $1 billion).

To think we were going to get 144 FGFA units, and have done basically nothing but 36 Rafales since and 40 Tejas. The Su-57 may not be the best of 5th gen on stealth but I'd sure feel a lot better about the situation today behind 144 FGFA units than 0.

 

[Hey]

Most information about SU-57 is classified, Nobody other than the Russians know the exact RCS or the price, so you wanted us to fight 5th gen jets from three Countries with Tejas Mk1A and wait for AMCA endlessly, realistically HAL/ADA doesn't have any clue as to how to make a 5th gen jet, let alone 100% 4.5 gen jet, we can only make AMCA through partnership, Rafale F3 can't fight 5th gen jets, Chinese are improving day by day, SU-57 is better than Chinese stealth jets or French 4.5 gen jet any day, besides France is asking $300Mln for basic Rafale F3, we wont be offered F35 with S400 and Voronezh OTH Stealth Aircraft detecting Radar, the closest to 5th gen jet in this competition is Typhoon in Tranche 5 form with LTE, nothing else is closer to 5th gen.

I don't know how that 300 million figure is coming up? Bro, you have been in this domain since at least 2021, and you still don't know that there is a huge difference between per-unit cost vs. unit cost + armaments + logistics + spares + offset clauses + TOT + training + specific upgrades (software + hardware) + cost of other hardware (flight simulators) + reserve engines, etc.?

I hope you know the difference between CapEx vs. OpEx. Look at the deals of other platforms bought under CapEx for F-35 & F-15Ex, as no new customer bought Typhoon, and the Russian platform is 0.5 generation behind Western jets, and F-16 comes in a different category.

 

[PKPRS]

I don't know how that 300 million figure is coming up? Bro, you have been in this domain since at least 2021, and you still don't know that there is a huge difference between per-unit cost vs. unit cost + armaments + logistics + spares + offset clauses + TOT + training + specific upgrades (software + hardware) + cost of other hardware (flight simulators) + reserve engines, etc.?

I hope you know the difference between CapEx vs. OpEx. Look at the deals of other platforms bought under CapEx for F-35 & F-15Ex, as no new customer bought Typhoon, and the Russian platform is 0.5 generation behind Western jets, and F-16 comes in a different category.

There was as an article most recently that said that France was asking $254-$260Mln after adjusting for Inflation, for Rafale-M F3 with India (Airfore)specific enhancement's, When Navy Specific enhancements is added to this price it will reach closer to $300Mln approximately, what ever it may be whether you take the price for barebones or add for other equipment's, don't you think $300Mln is ridiculous for a 4th gen jet, when 5th gen F35 costs much lesser, base price of 5th gen F35 is $80Mln compared to 4th gen Rafale's $150Mln.

 

[Hey]

There was as an article most recently that said that France was asking $254-$260Mln after adjusting for Inflation, for Rafale-M F3 with India (Airfore)specific enhancement's, When Navy Specific enhancements is added to this price it will reach closer to $300Mln approximately, what ever it may be whether you take the price for barebones or add for other equipment's, don't you think $300Mln is ridiculous for a 4th gen jet, when 5th gen F35 costs much lesser, base price of 5th gen F35 is $80Mln compared to 4th gen Rafale's $150Mln.

You never quote $300 million per unit price, etc., for any plane after the deal. Just because some stupid Indian media is doing it for views, it doesn't mean you have to do it.

See other Western media, etc., they rarely go with X amount for one jet after the deal.

Because it depends on the buyer, what he needs: X number of spares, X amount of TOT, X amount of software or hardware changes & upgrades, X amount of ammunition, X amount of everything else.

Again, compare CapEx cost with the CapEx cost of other deals, compare OpEx cost with OpEx deals.

It sounds so foolish that one jet is coming with X amount after the deal when mostly the price depends on the number of things you are involving with the per-unit cost of the deal. I hope you understand.

Plus, every country tries its best to extract as much money as it can from the buyer when it comes to buying defence equipment, unless you are buying some small artillery, guns, or small systems because everyone knows that you desperately need that system.

 

[Rp]

AMCA is India's own R&D, and Atmanirbharat is the only way to become self-reliant and relevant at this stage. We do not want manufacturers supplying old tech packaged as TOT. When India is capable of manufacturing cryogenic rocket engines, then so also are new-gen fighter jet engines. If stealth characteristics and advanced tech like EWS/AESA/Indian adaptable weaponry are to be developed to ensure supply chain capabilities, this means our budgeted funds are well spent. Let there be some delay. The IAF wants lots of imported hi-tech toys; India cannot invest, and ATMANIRBHARAT is for real. Rejecting all Indian-developed tech has become fashionable for the IAF. Our defence budget is not to promote foreign suppliers' export sales.

 

[tipoo2]

Lol SU57 is not even 5th generation it's RCS (in Sukhois own admission) is literally as much as a clean F18 AND it lacks sensor fusion capabilities. It's glorified 4.75 Gen fighter.

Literally no one just gives away their own combat RCS in a patent. That was surely talking about pure shaping, as are scatter simulations of it online, not accounting for substructure honeycomb and RAM and all.

While everyone was bashing the S70 for failing and flying towards Ukraine, it was notable that the Su-57 got in and out unmolested in some heavily contested airspace

 

[SR]

Nonsense. The Su-57 is nowhere near the F-22, as we have already seen. If nothing else, the Su-57 only has a smaller RCS forward, while the other sides have a fairly large RCS. Oh, and the thrust vectoring engine thing is still some time away.

It is a potent fighter, yes, but to compare it to the F-22 would be to compare something like the MiG-21bis to a F-16C or something.

Oh, and the Su-75 doesn't exist. Russia has little interest in the project, and only wants some idiot to finance it for them. Short of them finding such a nation, the Su-75 will almost certainly never exist beyond a set of mockups, some design drawings, and peoples' hopes and dreams.

The Su-75 cannot hold a candle to the F-35. The former doesn't exist. The latter, while having its flaws, is the most widely produced and operated fifth-generation fighter today.

I agree all your points but the point you missing is Russia built Su 57 with a view it should fight without entering battle field, operating in safe zones under full protection from S400 & S350. In this scenario what is the need of worring extremely about back rcs???. However they are doing many advancements to improve further.
F35 program name itself joint strike fighter, which is designed to enter battlefield, same F22 as air superiority fighter but designed to enter battlefield.

 

[SR]

In all defence deals, the Russians have repeatedly cheated India and never supplied any technology or expertise of worthwhile nature. Russian equipment is crude, unreliable, and failure rates are high.

Russia at least gave 47% jet engine technology; most of the technology we got from foreign sources is from Russia only. If it is NATO, they never share tech & instead enslave & colonize us.

Imagine you worked hard for nearly 100 years & lost thousands of valuable engineers and test pilots, now someone comes & asks for the tech, will you share?

 

[Anant]

I agree all your points but the point you missing is Russia built Su 57 with a view it should fight without entering battle field, operating in safe zones under full protection from S400 & S350. In this scenario what is the need of worring extremely about back rcs???. However they are doing many advancements to improve further.
F35 program name itself joint strike fighter, which is designed to enter battlefield, same F22 as air superiority fighter but designed to enter battlefield.

Boss, I know that Russian and American fighters have differing design doctrine. However, having a fighter that would have challenges if it had to enter a contested airspace isn't a good idea.

If you only wanted something that can sling missiles from stand-off ranges, just get those missiles, or fit an older aircraft with those. If you have SAM protection regardless, there isn't going to be much difference that a 4.5 generation fighter and a 5th generation fighter would have.

 

[Anant]

Russia lovers forget America has over 150 F22 and over 1000 F35 while Russia barely has 50 SU57, and 1 F22 can most likely kill 5-6 SU57 due to superior stealth hence first see first shoot!

Even 50 Su-57s is a stretch. Oh, and total F-35 production run is over 1,000. The US has something like 450 F-35s in service, with a final plan of having something like 2,450 F-35s overall over the course of the program.

 

[Anant]

Russia at least gave 47% jet engine technology; most of the technology we got from foreign sources is from Russia only. If it is NATO, they never share tech & instead enslave & colonize us.

Imagine you worked hard for nearly 100 years & lost thousands of valuable engineers and test pilots, now someone comes & asks for the tech, will you share?

And when was the last time we purchased anything from NATO in those kind of numbers? If you want to compare, have a fair comparison.

 

[rame]

We have enough of Rafale which is overpriced now. Since we have to go for imports immediately we should scout for such birds which have shown it's metal in ongoing wars. Look at Israel where they have effectively used F 35 in their ongoing wars. We can at least buy some F 35 A which US is offering to meet contigencies in case Pakis try to bomb with China sitting behind their back.

 

[Rational Guy]

36 more Rafales will cost us $15Bln now after adjusting inflation, and we have to wait for 10years to recieve the first Rafale due to it's excessive backlog of 254 jets, Dassault makes 10-11/year, we won't be needing a foreign 4th gen jet in 2035, we will be having hundreds of Tejas MK2 at that time.

If Dassault can somehow make it in India then we need to go ahead with it. Else we are stuck