Opinion Why India Must Reconsider Engine Choice for Tejas Mk2? Taking Lessons from F404 Engine Delays for Tejas Mk1A

Recent delays in the delivery of American-made GE F404 engines for the Tejas Mk1A fighter jet are raising significant concerns about India's growing dependency on foreign suppliers for critical military hardware.

According to defence analyst Pathikrit Payne, these disruptions should serve as a crucial lesson for the nation's more ambitious Tejas Mk2 programme, highlighting a strategic vulnerability that could impact the future of the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The current production schedule for the Tejas Mk1A aircraft has been affected by interruptions in the supply of its F404 engines. General Electric (GE), the manufacturer, has pointed to global supply chain constraints as the primary cause for the delay.

Mr. Payne, a Senior Research Fellow at the Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee Research Foundation, noted in a recent analysis that these issues cast doubt on the long-term dependability of relying on a single source for such vital components.

The Tejas Mk2 is a far more advanced and critical project for India's defence preparedness. This Medium Weight Fighter is engineered to be a cornerstone of the IAF, eventually replacing ageing fleets of Jaguar, Mirage 2000, and MiG-29 aircraft.

"The Tejas Mk-2 is a far more critical project than its predecessor," stated Mr. Payne. "Any uncertainty regarding the engine supply, especially at this scale, could have serious operational repercussions."

In an agreement signed during a state visit in June 2023, India and the United States finalised a deal for GE to jointly manufacture its more powerful F414 engines in India to power the Tejas Mk2. This deal includes a significant transfer of technology, estimated at around 80%.

However, Mr. Payne argues that despite this positive step, India must actively pursue alternative options to avoid potential bottlenecks and geopolitical pressures in the future.

As a measure of strategic hedging, experts suggest India should explore engine options from established defence partners like France and Russia.

France's Safran M88 engine, which already powers the IAF's fleet of Rafale jets, presents an option with logistical and maintenance advantages. Similarly, Russia's Klimov RD-93MA engine, an advanced variant of the engine used on MiG fighters, could be considered.

"The objective is not to replace the F414 immediately, but to have fallback options," Mr. Payne explained, adding that a diverse supplier base enhances India's negotiating power and strengthens its domestic defence industry.

Ultimately, the long-term solution lies in developing a homegrown engine.

For years, India's Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) has worked on the indigenous GTX-35VS Kaveri engine, though it has yet to achieve the required thrust for a frontline fighter.

There is a renewed focus on accelerating this programme, potentially through a joint venture with an international partner like France's Safran, to develop a next-generation engine for India's future combat aircraft.

The Tejas Mk2 is scheduled for induction into the IAF in the early 2030s and is expected to serve for several decades. Ensuring its production remains free from the influence of a single supplier is considered essential for maintaining India’s strategic autonomy and national security.

 

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[emgee]

A great pity India didn't buy the Mirage 2000 production line together with the M53 production line.
You guys could be punching planes and engines out like movie tickets.

 

[sanket]

Okay, the AMCA engine is an option with 120 kN thrust, which will make Tejas MK2 more agile in the sky. Now, there is a need to search for options; the focus should be on finalising a foreign partner for developing a 120 kN thrust engine with potential up to 145 kN and signing the deal at the earliest. One engine can be integrated into three fighter jets: AMCA, Tejas MK2, and TEDBF. If Safran wins the engine development race, then the same engine can be integrated into both variants of the Rafale.

 

[king dorm]

Safran and Rolls-Royce are ready to give us the full TOT of one of their engines, which we are planning to use in AMCA. So, why not put it in MK2 also? It will be a good test run, plus we will have our own working engine and not have to depend on the USA at all.

 

[Sunny]

We are already planning for 120 kN engine co-development, so we should design it to support both single-engine and twin-engine configurations. Also, hopefully, our engineers have already designed Tejas Mk2 airframes to handle 120 kN of thrust.

 

[Kira]

Since HAL is delaying Tejas production due to its own issues rather than the F404 issue itself, I don't think any change is needed from the F414, and choosing any other engine would mean significant modifications and retesting for the Tejas MK-2, which is already delayed.

 

[GhoshDiganta]

Unless we have our own engine, everything is uncertain.

 

[Krishnarao R]

Engines can also be sourced from Japan and Russia with TOT. Tejas's airframe and other parts should be compatible with any type of engine. This will enable wider participation by industries at a competitive rate, but adhering to the timeline is very important.

 

[Rajesh]

Fast-track the 120 kN engine deal, making them suitable for Mk2, TEDBF, and AMCA, leaving us with the Mk1 series.

MRFA should be selected in a way that the OEM puts its engine in a separate deal, like the AMCA engine. Most probably, Typhoon and Rafale would win, considering they both have engines suitable for Mk1 (Rafale must put their M88-3 engine in that place). Let us utilize the multi-billions we will spend on a 4th-gen jet into something useful.

If MRFA is won by Rafale or Typhoon (which they have won in the previous tender), put a condition that the engine should also be put in a similar deal like the proposed AMCA engine deal. When the EJ200, which was under consideration along with GE414, the Typhoon consortium was also willing to make the engines in India with ToT, so they won't be that hesitant, nor will the French.

Self-reliant in engines is a must, or we will be subjected to political bullying every time.

 

[Radha Ramanan]

Unfortunately, nothing can be done hereafter regarding the engine for the LCA series, including the MK2. The LCA internal structure has been designed to fit the GE engines only. No other engine can be integrated inside without redesigning the engine bay. Fuel lines, hydraulics, and electricals all have to be redesigned. Readers here are giving suggestions as though engines can be swapped like Lego bricks; the truth is, it cannot be done. The other hard truth is, if the US decided to sanction India, it can ground the entire LCA fleet! That is the reality...

 

[Vijigishu ( विजिग्शु )]

Safran and Rolls-Royce are ready to give us the full TOT of one of their engines, which we are planning to use in AMCA. So, why not put it in MK2 also? It will be a good test run, plus we will have our own working engine and not have to depend on the USA at all.

There is a long time before those engines will be made and put into use. Our entire Tejas platform hugely depends upon American GE. A mistake has been made already if they do not supply engines on time.

 

[sandy 007]

Okay, the AMCA engine is an option with 120 kN thrust, which will make Tejas MK2 more agile in the sky. Now, there is a need to search for options; the focus should be on finalising a foreign partner for developing a 120 kN thrust engine with potential up to 145 kN and signing the deal at the earliest. One engine can be integrated into three fighter jets: AMCA, Tejas MK2, and TEDBF. If Safran wins the engine development race, then the same engine can be integrated into both variants of the Rafale.

I think the Japanese engine can also be a big game-changer in this competition, and the Japanese can provide good technical assistance and assurance compared to GE, RR, and Safran. I don't know how much TOT they will offer, but indeed, they are more reliable than all of them. We must talk to them, as Japanese technology is far more advanced than European. In fact, the Japanese can be good aircraft manufacturers, better than Western countries, but they have certain constraints. I think if Japan provides technology and technical assistance, India should go with Japan.

 

[bonito]

Since HAL is delaying Tejas production due to its own issues rather than the F404 issue itself, I don't think any change is needed from the F414, and choosing any other engine would mean significant modifications and retesting for the Tejas MK-2, which is already delayed.

They still haven't done anything with regards to F414. Tejas MK2 is designed engine agnostic. Any engine should fit in. Do you really believe GE will be on time delivery?

 

[Hawkeye]

Engines can also be sourced from Japan and Russia with TOT. Tejas's airframe and other parts should be compatible with any type of engine. This will enable wider participation by industries at a competitive rate, but adhering to the timeline is very important.

Engine dimensions still matter. Russian engines are too big to fit in Tejas MK2. To adapt to Russian engine size, it will take more time to redesign and test. Tejas MK2 is already delayed. The only alternative engine that can fit as is without any design changes is the EJ200; it is more powerful than the GE F414 and slightly smaller also.

 

[Sandeep]

For Tejas MK2 we can’t switch engines because it will require some modifications to the jets air frames, fuselage, pipes, wiring, jet computer and software updates etc. We should quickly reach a deal for the F414 engines because that’s the engine that we selected when developing Tejas MK2.

Even if we have to pay a little bit more it will still be worth it in the long run. What’s important is that we learn how to design, develop and manufacture an engine. Also we get 80% of the technology along with manufacturing that amount from indigenous raw materials.

If we want to develop an engine then we should find a replacement for the F404. Our private sector companies can create a consortium and 100% indigenously design, develop and manufacture a replacement for the F404.

Overall we will need to develop and manufacture at least 600-800 engines as a jet uses around 3-4 engines over a period of 30-40 years. So developing an engine that’s equivalent or better than the F404 which can be achieved.

 

[Kira]

They still haven't done anything with regards to F414. Tejas MK2 is designed engine agnostic. Any engine should fit in. Do you really believe GE will be on time delivery?

Given that the F414 is already in production, unlike the F404, which GE had to restart production of, I don't think that will be an issue. Also, since the design of the MK-2 will have been concrete for at least the last few years, and the prototypes are in various stages of construction, I don't think you can simply change the engine now without significant redesigns, calculations, and testing that will set back the project even more.

 

[Madan]

You are absolutely right. But HAL will not do anything else but to go for the GE 414. Because it knows about the delays by GE and hence the excuse for doing nothing. Also there must be some other considerations like commissions etc.

 

[Madan]

Given that the F414 is already in production, unlike the F404, which GE had to restart production of, I don't think that will be an issue. Also, since the design of the MK-2 will have been concrete for at least the last few years, and the prototypes are in various stages of construction, I don't think you can simply change the engine now without significant redesigns, calculations, and testing that will set back the project even more.

If the delay is intentional on goading from US Government, then it won't be about in production or not (F 414). Americans can't be trusted.

 

[Muthukumar Ponnambalam]

As long as HAL is not brought under PMO or ordered to work with private players on a 50-50 JV or be privatized, it will never deliver anything on time with utmost quality.

I'm sure MK2 too was designed to be compatible with only GE engine and hence surrender the whole project at the feet of GE for its mercy.

It is highly pathetic and totally condemnable that GTRE couldn't bring up Kaveri to the required level to be used in all the Tejas platforms. Is India that much intellectually paralyzed/handicapped, that it always comes up with the same old lame excuse that "it is highly complicated; only West can do it; we don't have enough funds and resources"?

 

[Foxbat]

As long as HAL is not brought under PMO or ordered to work with private players on a 50-50 JV or be privatized, it will never deliver anything on time with utmost quality.

I'm sure MK2 too was designed to be compatible with only GE engine and hence surrender the whole project at the feet of GE for its mercy.

It is highly pathetic and totally condemnable that GTRE couldn't bring up Kaveri to the required level to be used in all the Tejas platforms. Is India that much intellectually paralyzed/handicapped, that it always comes up with the same old lame excuse that "it is highly complicated; only West can do it; we don't have enough funds and resources"?

I concur with most of your points. But I think it is about time we look for other better options available though we may have to spend more funds but India should seriously look at economic benefits and gains in the long run. India has already spent a huge amount of financial backing on indigenous Kaveri engine project but to date the project has not produced the desired results to produce an engine in the bracket of 100kN and above. The Kaveri progress after so many years of work in progres has only produced disappointing results. Enormous amount of funds and too much time has been spent thus far. If we don't have the knowledge and expertise in manufacturing an advanced technology fighter aircraft engines we should put aside our indigenous ambitions aside and seriously consider collaborating with a reliable foreign partner like RR and Japanese IHI XF9-1 engines to power Tejas Mk2 and AMCA. If we have adequate knowledge and experience like our missile systems we can develop new variants of indigenous missile products. But in the case of advanced technology engines it's like blind leading a blind and struggling to reach our destination. I find that the people at the helm in HAL and GTRE are poor planners bcoz they lack foresight so this results to poor decision making. In a recent news GTRE has announced that they have the knowledge and capability to produce an engine to power AMCA and they are looking for a foreign partner to produce 6th gen fighter engine. GTRE has spent a considerable amount of time negotiating with RR, Safran and Japanese. It seems that they are undecided on the selection of a right foreign partnership. My point is that planners should focus on a specific objective and work towards it to achieve their goals. The way I look at things it seems like the top people in HAL especially GTRE are clumsy and confused bcoz they are not focused on critical issue in hand. I hope AMCA and 5th gen fighter engines will not suffer the same fate as Tejas and Kaveri respectively. However from the past experiences I am sceptical Tejas Mk2 engine collaboration with GE and AMCA 5th gen engines will materialise to power Tejas Mk2 and AMCA.

 

[Nik68]

One more point, can we think of equipping naval LCA with 120 kn engine this can fill the gap till tedbf becomes operational.

 

[Sun Beam]

Since HAL is delaying Tejas production due to its own issues rather than the F404 issue itself, I don't think any change is needed from the F414, and choosing any other engine would mean significant modifications and retesting for the Tejas MK-2, which is already delayed.

See HAL is not the only organisation involved in the production of Tejas... Different branches of DRDO is also involved in the integration of different portions like avionics, weapon integration, AESA radar from LRDE etc., .... So Now comes the GE engine too.... It seems GE has been restarting the production of F404 engine for us..... Better to immediately go for or make fast the production of Kaveri2.0 or Kaveri engine with 85Kn which will help us a lot in indigenisation rather than running behind other OEMs..... We may get the GE engines in a slow process only as we could see from the current situation.... Or US may pressure for other products too.... It's quite natural from the technologically advanced country.....

 

[Sun Beam]

One more point, can we think of equipping naval LCA with 120 kn engine this can fill the gap till tedbf becomes operational.

120Kn.....? Have you come accross ORCA.... 4th Gen fighter plan from ADA & DRDO? I think, because of the bottle necks in 120Kn engine, it has been reduced to LCA-MK2 with F414, 98Kn engine......

I don't know why are we not going with Russia for the engine technologies though we license produce them......

 

[Sun Beam]

As long as HAL is not brought under PMO or ordered to work with private players on a 50-50 JV or be privatized, it will never deliver anything on time with utmost quality.

I'm sure MK2 too was designed to be compatible with only GE engine and hence surrender the whole project at the feet of GE for its mercy.

It is highly pathetic and totally condemnable that GTRE couldn't bring up Kaveri to the required level to be used in all the Tejas platforms. Is India that much intellectually paralyzed/handicapped, that it always comes up with the same old lame excuse that "it is highly complicated; only West can do it; we don't have enough funds and resources"?

A deep analysis is required before commenting on any issues.... It's my humble request....

GTRE is not a failure but it's sure that it's not able to come with an 80+ Kn engine(K8+) as of now.... The Brahmos afterburner with around 30KN can help us.... But DRDO chief had said that it closed as of now.... Not knowing future outcomes..... It may take some time....

Why for 50-50 partnership with private companies? See if capable private companies can produce their own areo engines? It's very good for our country.... Private organisations now supply the complex aeronautical materials & spares to foreign OEMs wherein Govt. Organisations never come accross them..... So Aero engine production is not a simple job & is very complex..... R&D investment is very high....

GE or Safran too took more than two decades.... See now it's for everyone to join hands & go for next level.....

MIDHANI is now able to produce super Alloys for Single Crystal Blade..... I think HAL &/or GTRE has given a big order in hundreds of crores to MIDHANI for the required metellargy & other alloys..... It goes on.....

We still don't have High altitude test facilities for testing aero engines & FTB as of now or we may have it in the near future.....

GTRE is going for testing the Kaveri engine in the LCA prototype which IAF is not confident enough......

This is our present situation..... If Private organisations are able to come with areo engines they will be a global players.... I pray the god for their success....... They too are Indian bloods......

 

[Sun Beam]

As long as HAL is not brought under PMO or ordered to work with private players on a 50-50 JV or be privatized, it will never deliver anything on time with utmost quality.

I'm sure MK2 too was designed to be compatible with only GE engine and hence surrender the whole project at the feet of GE for its mercy.

It is highly pathetic and totally condemnable that GTRE couldn't bring up Kaveri to the required level to be used in all the Tejas platforms. Is India that much intellectually paralyzed/handicapped, that it always comes up with the same old lame excuse that "it is highly complicated; only West can do it; we don't have enough funds and resources"?

Tejas MK-1 & MK-2 are not dependent on the GE engines in their design, if Kaveri is successful, it can be used as an alternative.... Tejas can utilise any engine for the required thrust with some modifications as to the engine compatibility & it's structure......