With Rafale M Selected, Indian Navy May Face Challenges Similar to MiG-29K Regarding Non-Foldable Wings and Training Limitations on Decks

Concerns have been raised over the Indian Navy's selection of the Rafale M fighter jet, with a serving naval official pointing out potential operational limitations similar to those experienced with the MiG-29K.

A key issue lies in the Rafale M's non-foldable wings, which pose challenges for storage and maneuverability on the relatively confined decks of India's aircraft carriers, INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant. This design constraint could limit the number of aircraft deployable on a carrier at any given time, impacting operational flexibility.

Furthermore, the Rafale M's twin-seater trainer variant is not carrier-compatible. This necessitates land-based training for pilots, hindering the development of crucial skills required for carrier take-offs and landings. While simulations and touch-and-go training can partially compensate, they cannot fully replicate the real-world conditions of carrier operations.

This contrasts with the MiG-29KUB, the twin-seater trainer variant of the MiG-29K, which is carrier-capable and provides a more realistic training environment. However, due to a series of crashes and subsequent scarcity, the Indian Navy's use of the MiG-29KUB has been limited, increasing reliance on simulators.

The official, who remained anonymous, suggested that the decision to procure the Rafale M was influenced by logistical and financial considerations, echoing the rationale behind the earlier MiG-29K acquisition. This raises concerns that operational efficiency may have been compromised in favor of commonality with the Indian Air Force's Rafale fleet and potential cost savings.

These limitations could impact the Indian Navy's operational readiness, particularly in terms of aircraft handling and pilot proficiency on carrier decks. The lack of a carrier-borne trainer aircraft may necessitate increased investment in simulation technologies or alternative training solutions to ensure pilots are adequately prepared for carrier operations.

While the Rafale M undoubtedly brings advanced combat capabilities to the Indian Navy, these concerns highlight the complexities of integrating foreign technology into the unique operational environment of aircraft carrier operations. The Navy may need to explore further modifications to the Rafale M or invest in enhanced training programs to mitigate these challenges and ensure optimal operational effectiveness.

The decision to acquire the Rafale M, despite its limitations, may have long-term implications for the Navy's carrier operations and future fleet composition.

 

[Gentleman]

Why not go for more MiG-29Ks? Here's a hint: Production of the MiG-29K stopped back in 2016, and even production of the MiG-29M ended in 2021.

As for the folding wing part, I agree with you that it was quite possibly a misstep. The F-18 might have been better in that aspect, but both types would be considerably better than obsolescent MiG-29Ks.

What caused it to stop? The Mig-29 isn't that obsolete.

 

[Sandeep]

A mockup carrier does not move, so it is less suitable. Also the trainee pilots should see nothing else but sea and ship, which is not the case. So they might only learn the technicality, but not the real orientation on a moving object in the sea.

Obviously they will practice on the carrier before they pass the pilots training so they will gain a lot of experience on carrier flights. Practicing on land in similar conditions and simulators will give them a lot of knowledge and experience so it isn’t a big deal.

 

[Anant]

Well France also operates the same planes from carriers. And they have no other plane for carriers. So clearly lack of trainers is not severe at all and isn't required.

As for wings, Navy chief clearly said that Rafale - M meets all the operational requirements, so folding wings is not required either.

Finally, regarding price. It is the cheapest plane on offer, it was the L1. So it is not very very very expensive but very very very budget friendly.

Sir, do correct me if I am mistaken, but trainers normally have a lower payload capacity than single-seater variants of a jet, and the Rafale, when flying under STOBAR conditions, does have a reduced payload.

It could be that these two factors, when put together, may well be resulting in a scenario where a Rafale trainer flying off a STOBAR carrier may have to seriously comprise on either fuel or other payload.

 

[Anant]

What caused it to stop? The Mig-29 isn't that obsolete.

It pretty much is obsolete. Look at it this way: Even the MiG-29M is more comparable to the F-16C/D in terms of technological stand.

The baseline MiG-29 was no longer particularly technologically advanced by the late 2000s and early 2010s, and the MiG-29M has crossed that line by the late 2010s.

Moreover, with jets like the Su-27/30, JF-17, and others being fairly affordable now, the MiG-29 is just well past its prime. It is only some upgraded versions that can just about stay up from a technological standpoint.

 

[Akshat]

Sir, do correct me if I am mistaken, but trainers normally have a lower payload capacity than single-seater variants of a jet, and the Rafale, when flying under STOBAR conditions, does have a reduced payload.

It could be that these two factors, when put together, may well be resulting in a scenario where a Rafale trainer flying off a STOBAR carrier may have to seriously comprise on either fuel or other payload.

I don't think you are mistaken here, sir. Though I don't think the Rafale B, the 2 seater variant, is capable of taking off from carriers (Catobar or Stobar). It won't have the gear for Arrested landing or reinforced airframe. So there is going to be no scenario whatsoever where a trainer Rafale will fly off the STOBAR carrier, unless and until IN gets the first such custom made variants.

 

[BCharlie]

All because of watch lovers, F/A-18 has foldable wings or why not go for more MIG-29KUB’s, such a dumb decision by the Navy to select a jet with non folding wings for a tiny carrier.

Sir ji, my 2 bits worth... Rafale M, MiG29s, F/A-18s... are absolutely not fit for our carriers, and we need to look at a third option:

We must look very seriously at the SAAB Gripen JAS 39:

• Current marine fighters are very large, very heavy, very costly – F/A-18E/F, F-35C, Rafale M, Mig 29M, Su 33
• Only Sea Gripen fits on all existing aircraft carriers worldwide, and by definition, all future carriers
• Sea Gripen will offer maximum capability from STOBAR and CATOBAR carriers
• Only Sea Gripen will offer proven maximum cost-to-capability value.

 

[PKPRS]

We must look very seriously at the SAAB Gripen JAS 39

There is no naval version of SAAB Gripen yet, Tejas MK2 has more payload than Gripen, why not make Tejas Mk2 Naval.

 

[Vikas Yadav 007]

The 26 Rafale deal is indeed a massive one, with a total cost of around 7.15 billion euros, which translates to approximately ₹50,362 crore due to various (11)indian navy related modification.Extra fuel tank,ASEA radar and EW system.
Breaking it down, the cost of each single-seat Rafale is around ₹2481 crore, while the twin-seat version costs ₹2703 crore with ful TOT & life cycle cost, ⛽ , future modification Like Rafale 4.1 to Rafale5 & indian software and weapons intigration like supersonic brahmos2-K /NG, ,Astra 4NG, Nirbhay (likewise tom hawk cruise missile)and indian combating mission ,360 drgree Awacs system,islreal /indian verson jamming pod & SPEAR AECM Pod /AN/AAQ-28 Litening intigration.

However, the naval version of the Rafale, known as Rafale M, has some limitations. It's not a true aircraft carrier, and it takes up almost double the deck space due to nonfoldable wing. Additionally, the Rafale M has trainer aircraft with thru-deck facilities, and only four land-based Rafale B aircraft are being used, similar to the Air Force.

In comparison, the Boeing EA-18G Growler is a more advanced carrier-based electronic warfare aircraft, with a principal electronic combat system based on the two-seat Boeing F/A-18F Super Hornet . The FA 18 E/F is a true naval jet fighter with a foldable wing, making it a more versatile option.

It's worth noting that the Rafale M is considered a political choice, and it's around 1.5 times more expensive than the F18E/F. The Indian government has faced criticism for the high cost of the Rafale deal, with some arguing that it's not the best value for the country's defense budget. My point of view russia is trustworthy partner .US never allow any Indian weapons intigration.

 

[Mukesh]

Whenever any decision is to be taken for strategic military purchases, various so called experts of dubious credentials start their campaign that this is bad or that is bad and put back the purchases again and again. Government should not pay any attention to such people. No purchase is picture perfect.

 

[Shubham_51]

7 billion $ for 26 aircrafts is insane..govt should fast track tedbf..for the time being buy 24 Mig29Ks of Russian navy as their only carrier kuznetsov is out of action..India can get them at cheapest price..Navy won't involve in a direct war anytime soon so wasting 66,000 crores for only 26 aircrafts is not a viable option for India when our country's capex is less.