Beyond IPR Transfer for AMCA Engine, Rolls-Royce Pledges Deep Collaboration with India for Complete Self-Reliance and Exports

Rolls-Royce, the British aerospace and defence giant, has signaled its strong interest in a deep partnership with India to co-develop a next-generation engine for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program.

This collaboration aims to go beyond a simple transfer of intellectual property rights (IPR), focusing instead on building indigenous capabilities for India's long-term defence self-sufficiency and potential export opportunities.

Rolls-Royce is proposing a collaborative model designed to boost India's goal of "Atmanirbhar Bharat" (self-reliant India) in the defence sector. The company stated that its proposed engine co-development will offer India the chance to "create and own" the intellectual property for crucial combat engine technology.

This includes the potential not just to manufacture the engine, but also perform future upgrades and pursue export sales. This partnership aims to provide India with both the practical skills ("know-how") and the fundamental engineering understanding ("know-why") necessary for sustained technological advancement.

This comprehensive approach is crucial. Sharing both the "know-how" (the practical knowledge of building and maintaining the engine) and the "know-why" (the underlying engineering principles and design rationale) is intended to give India a strong foundation for future engine development programs. This level of engagement signifies a long-term commitment to fostering innovation within India's defence technology ecosystem.

The AMCA program, led by India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), is a crucial project to design and build a fifth-generation stealth fighter jet. Key features of the AMCA include advanced avionics, improved aerodynamic design, and cutting-edge weaponry.

The development of a domestically produced engine, potentially with the expertise of a company like Rolls-Royce, would represent a significant milestone for India's aerospace industry.

A successful partnership could have far-reaching consequences. It would allow India to acquire essential technologies, provide a foundation for future fighter jet projects, and potentially create new export markets for Indian-made defence equipment.

The Indian government's decision on the engine co-development will be a decisive factor in determining the trajectory of its indigenous fighter aircraft capabilities for decades to come.

Currently India is using GE made F404 and F414, engines in its LCA Tejas and Tejas MK2 program. The successful development of an indigenous engine would lessen India's reliance on foreign suppliers for this critical component.

 

[vyoma]

India must also fast-track Kaveri 81kN, and Kaveri 100kN as intermediary variant to replace Mk2 engines. If 110kN (BTW, all are flat rated), can be suitable for Mk2, and Mk1a, then why were we delaying to acquire GE 414 for all Tejas platform. I am sure, extra power could have been a design change, but one could de-rate and adjust few things to reduce thrusts.

 

[P2S2]

India must also fast-track Kaveri 81kN, and Kaveri 100kN as intermediary variant to replace Mk2 engines. If 110kN (BTW, all are flat rated), can be suitable for Mk2, and Mk1a, then why were we delaying to acquire GE 414 for all Tejas platform. I am sure, extra power could have been a design change, but one could de-rate and adjust few things to reduce thrusts.

Yes that too needs to speed up. As the mother ship, RR is far advanced in metallurgical knowledge and the most advanced in proven engine technology. India stands to further upgrade engine efficiencies and make them less power consuming.

 

[Senapati]

Better to continue relation with GE and take it further ahead.110kn engine can be jointly developed with GE based on F414 and negotiate for make in India with TOT and IP Rights.

 

[Foxbat]

Collaboration with a foreign engine maker in producing 110kN engine for AMCA has been on the news too many times more than any progression in negotiations actually taking place in reality. I understand the decision to conclude the deal will take time but every decision making in crucial deals takes too long causing the projects dragged to long years leaving Indian defence products lagging far behind turkey and S Korea and china is running out of India's sight. It is really pathetic that our bureaucrats and GTRE officials are not bothered about the delays causing setbacks in our self reliance policy. This is the reason why India took more than two decades to come up with a fully certified fighter aircraft, Tejas. Now still struggling to fulfil the contract deal with IAF. Do the bureaucrats and the top management people in HAL ever feel ashamed of the inefficiency in getting things done in an efficient and proactive manner. When will this foreign partner in collaboration with GTRE on 110kN engine for AMCA, GE engine 80/20 ToT partnership and Rafael M deals signed to move forward to stay in par with our adversaries? Always take ages to make decision to keep the pace progress.

 

[P2S2]

Better to continue relation with GE and take it further ahead.110kn engine can be jointly developed with GE based on F414 and negotiate for make in India with TOT and IP Rights.

GE has kept its promises and done the best in overcoming challenges. There's no reason to penalise them for anything. A 110kN is presently required they are in a good position for partnership.

 

[P2S2]

Collaboration with a foreign engine maker in producing 110kN engine for AMCA has been on the news too many times more than any progression in negotiations actually taking place in reality. I understand the decision to conclude the deal will take time but every decision making in crucial deals takes too long causing the projects dragged to long years leaving Indian defence products lagging far behind turkey and S Korea and china is running out of India's sight. It is really pathetic that our bureaucrats and GTRE officials are not bothered about the delays causing setbacks in our self reliance policy. This is the reason why India took more than two decades to come up with a fully certified fighter aircraft, Tejas. Now still struggling to fulfil the contract deal with IAF. Do the bureaucrats and the top management people in HAL ever feel ashamed of the inefficiency in getting things done in an efficient and proactive manner. When will this foreign partner in collaboration with GTRE on 110kN engine for AMCA, GE engine 80/20 ToT partnership and Rafael M deals signed to move forward to stay in par with our adversaries? Always take ages to make decision to keep the pace progress.

They have nothing to feel ashamed about. They are representatives of the society they are part of. They are evolving with the society, and as that society progresses so will they. Their job was to INSURE we don't get taken for a ride. They have performed well and as our society provides them with more resources finished products will become visible.

 

[sanket]

Nice, that's what I was saying. RR is the front runner, but a few days back there was an article which mentioned Safran is ready to share 100% ToT plus IPR. If RR is chosen as a foreign partner for engine development, then MRFA may have a different winner. It will directly impact the MRFA tender. If Dassault fails to meet the parameters set for MRFA: 1) Sharing ToT 2) Final assembly with a local Pvt partner, with a complete eco-system around, autonomy in integrating future upgrades in sensors, and weapons, whether it is indigenous or a third party, without OEM permission. Dassault has to wake up. They want a 100% stake in DRAL & want complete control for the production of Rafale in Bharat, & that's why they are unwilling to start a final assembly line with a local Pvt player.

 

[amit suri]

But by when will this engine happen?

Do they offer a fallback engine if the collaboration misses the deadline?

Have we started placement for the best engineering team once the deal is finalized?

Do we have the industry setup ready to go without wasting time once we are on the deal?

While the world is thriving for the 6th gen, we will begin with the 5th generation. What's the point then?

Why not buy the best they have and instead work on better drones and lasers, which are already the present and future?

 

[Paul]

Will we ever see our own engine in our lifetime? Tired of the same cycle—first Safran collaboration, then Rolls-Royce, then GE, and finally Russia.

 

[Rinku Pandey]

But by when will this engine happen?

Do they offer a fallback engine if the collaboration misses the deadline?

Have we started placement for the best engineering team once the deal is finalized?

Do we have the industry setup ready to go without wasting time once we are on the deal?

While the world is thriving for the 6th gen, we will begin with the 5th generation. What's the point then?

Why not buy the best they have and instead work on better drones and lasers, which are already the present and future?

Bharat will make its own 6th-gen engine once it masters the 5th-gen engine with one tech-advanced country like the US, UK, France, or Russia. Today, we can't even produce a 4th-gen engine. Kaveri has been a total failure for fighter jets.

 

[Anupom]

Bharat will make its own 6th-gen engine once it masters the 5th-gen engine with one tech-advanced country like the US, UK, France, or Russia. Today, we can't even produce a 4th-gen engine. Kaveri has been a total failure for fighter jets.

I think the new engine will incorporate some 6th gen technology. While Russia, UK & France far away from adaptive cycle technology.

 

[swatkats_razor]

When a lot is riding on this one technology, the secret to success would be to not count chickens before they hatch.

Rolls Royce will extract its pound of flesh before it transfers any bit of engine technology to India.

In the late 1960s, when the Americans were looking at the Soviets for technology on Titanium forging for their own SST aircraft, it was identified through diplomatic parleys that the Soviets would be interested in sharing the technology in exchange for American know-how regarding design elements of wing-mounted engines, where the Soviets were having trouble with their own aft-engined jet aircraft.

A meeting of the American and Soviet experts was organized at a neutral venue in a then-neutral Paris (France had withdrawn from NATO's military command in 1966).

During the meeting, set up at a hotel in Paris, the Americans provided the Soviets many sketches and drawings, drawn on napkin papers and table linen.

I wonder what it is that India would have to share with the Brits in exchange for their tech, which they will bring to the IPR table.

As and when this happens, we need to be prepared for our 'Paper Napkin' moment in history.

 

[Somnath Sinhababu]

I am watching this type of news for several times now, then why is our govt. not choosing anyone to start working? I mean, you are already decades late and still waiting and delaying... I mean, why is our defence establishment taking too much time?

 

[beencensured]

When a lot is riding on this one technology, the secret to success would be to not count chickens before they hatch.

Rolls Royce will extract its pound of flesh before it transfers any bit of engine technology to India.

In the late 1960s, when the Americans were looking at the Soviets for technology on Titanium forging for their own SST aircraft, it was identified through diplomatic parleys that the Soviets would be interested in sharing the technology in exchange for American know-how regarding design elements of wing-mounted engines, where the Soviets were having trouble with their own aft-engined jet aircraft.

A meeting of the American and Soviet experts was organized at a neutral venue in a then-neutral Paris (France had withdrawn from NATO's military command in 1966).

During the meeting, set up at a hotel in Paris, the Americans provided the Soviets many sketches and drawings, drawn on napkin papers and table linen.

I wonder what it is that India would have to share with the Brits in exchange for their tech, which they will bring to the IPR table.

As and when this happens, we need to be prepared for our 'Paper Napkin' moment in history.

We have already made considerable steps in developing high-temperature alloys, etc. We should, in any case, move to the development of several classes of engines. We cannot expect the best to be made immediately, and so a lower thrust-to-weight ratio could be acceptable, like China, which has developed engines that are far from fuel-efficient or perfection. But what is important is to start the road for development and not depend. Yes, take all help given, but do not depend, and have parallel programs to achieve several goals.

What I do not understand is our most egregious and regressive government cannot foresee the need to develop such an engine and give full support and test facilities, being the third-largest country by PPP, and close to the fourth-largest nation in the world by nominal GDP. It is very strange our R&D is close to that of Sub-Saharan Africa, and in critical areas, there are no proper facilities for testing and development of engines. It seems those in power do not listen to scientists and engineers and give them the proper tools, though scientists and engineers have moved on and fixed the problems of AL31F engines, which takes competency to fix such high-thrust engines and shows they may be able to develop such a class of engines.

Geopolitically, there are very much too many changes that the timeline to make such engines seems inconceivable, that it will come to fruition after ten years. As the old saying goes, you can only depend on yourself, maybe the hope of your family, but it is unlikely any stranger would help. So, it is best to make an effort and have proper tools and build engines instead of dreaming of holding hands and wasting time, as giving proper facilities to scientists and engineers is a less costly and most sound approach that has never been tried, like a flying test bed.

 

[vinod nair]

Should not blindly trust former colonizers. Basically, they need funds to develop their own 6th gen engine.

 

[Kira]

RR is a better bet overall due to having superior jet engine tech as compared to Safran and greater pressure to offer higher ToT as compared to GE.

 

[P2S2]

When a lot is riding on this one technology, the secret to success would be to not count chickens before they hatch.

Rolls Royce will extract its pound of flesh before it transfers any bit of engine technology to India.

In the late 1960s, when the Americans were looking at the Soviets for technology on Titanium forging for their own SST aircraft, it was identified through diplomatic parleys that the Soviets would be interested in sharing the technology in exchange for American know-how regarding design elements of wing-mounted engines, where the Soviets were having trouble with their own aft-engined jet aircraft.

A meeting of the American and Soviet experts was organized at a neutral venue in a then-neutral Paris (France had withdrawn from NATO's military command in 1966).

During the meeting, set up at a hotel in Paris, the Americans provided the Soviets many sketches and drawings, drawn on napkin papers and table linen.

I wonder what it is that India would have to share with the Brits in exchange for their tech, which they will bring to the IPR table.

As and when this happens, we need to be prepared for our 'Paper Napkin' moment in history.

Motherships stagnate but colonies prosper to start leading the way. We are their life support.

 

[P2S2]

Should not blindly trust former colonizers. Basically, they need funds to develop their own 6th gen engine.

For who ? Their people ? The demographics are changing

 

[positiveattitude]

Yes that too needs to speed up. As the mother ship, RR is far advanced in metallurgical knowledge and the most advanced in proven engine technology. India stands to further upgrade engine efficiencies and make them less power consuming.

Sab bevkuf bana rahe hai, pehle current total design and technology transfer,baad me aage ki baat...

 

[P2S2]

We have already made considerable steps in developing high-temperature alloys, etc. We should, in any case, move to the development of several classes of engines. We cannot expect the best to be made immediately, and so a lower thrust-to-weight ratio could be acceptable, like China, which has developed engines that are far from fuel-efficient or perfection. But what is important is to start the road for development and not depend. Yes, take all help given, but do not depend, and have parallel programs to achieve several goals.

What I do not understand is our most egregious and regressive government cannot foresee the need to develop such an engine and give full support and test facilities, being the third-largest country by PPP, and close to the fourth-largest nation in the world by nominal GDP. It is very strange our R&D is close to that of Sub-Saharan Africa, and in critical areas, there are no proper facilities for testing and development of engines. It seems those in power do not listen to scientists and engineers and give them the proper tools, though scientists and engineers have moved on and fixed the problems of AL31F engines, which takes competency to fix such high-thrust engines and shows they may be able to develop such a class of engines.

Geopolitically, there are very much too many changes that the timeline to make such engines seems inconceivable, that it will come to fruition after ten years. As the old saying goes, you can only depend on yourself, maybe the hope of your family, but it is unlikely any stranger would help. So, it is best to make an effort and have proper tools and build engines instead of dreaming of holding hands and wasting time, as giving proper facilities to scientists and engineers is a less costly and most sound approach that has never been tried, like a flying test bed.

Yes you're not wrong. But we're still ticking and picking up speed without over exertion.

 

[P2S2]

Sab bevkuf bana rahe hai, pehle current total design and technology transfer,baad me aage ki baat...

Dreams are free. But we have managed to prod a tiny weeny bit of action from our civil servants. We are starting to see action. Dreams are getting rosier by the day.

 

[Anshuman Dev]

This is Amazing News....

Few days back, Russians wanted to share their engine technology, now RR is ready!!!! Perhaps, never ever had we got so much attention than now, indeed an Amrit Kaal for collaboration...

But, it should be in a TIME-BOUND manner..

Best would be to collaborate with BOTH.

Half of AMCA will fly with Russian TOT Engines, half with RR TOT Engines...

Get the BEST and develop the rest...

Money? CROWD FUND them, lots of PATRIOTIC INDIANS will chip in...

 

[P2S2]

This is Amazing News....

Few days back, Russians wanted to share their engine technology, now RR is ready!!!! Perhaps, never ever had we got so much attention than now, indeed an Amrit Kaal for collaboration...

But, it should be in a TIME-BOUND manner..

Best would be to collaborate with BOTH.

Half of AMCA will fly with Russian TOT Engines, half with RR TOT Engines...

Get the BEST and develop the rest...

Money? CROWD FUND them, lots of PATRIOTIC INDIANS will chip in...

Patriotic Indians should go out and earn more money. We are on a roll. Make hay when the sun shines. This has probably happened many times before. Mohan Jaro was probably the most recent and nobody knows anything about it. Everyone looks down till the end of their noses.

 

[sanjiv]

Nice, that's what I was saying. RR is the front runner, but a few days back there was an article which mentioned Safran is ready to share 100% ToT plus IPR. If RR is chosen as a foreign partner for engine development, then MRFA may have a different winner. It will directly impact the MRFA tender. If Dassault fails to meet the parameters set for MRFA: 1) Sharing ToT 2) Final assembly with a local Pvt partner, with a complete eco-system around, autonomy in integrating future upgrades in sensors, and weapons, whether it is indigenous or a third party, without OEM permission. Dassault has to wake up. They want a 100% stake in DRAL & want complete control for the production of Rafale in Bharat, & that's why they are unwilling to start a final assembly line with a local Pvt player.

We had given Saffran a chance. Now we should give RR the chance to perfect our engines. One caution is to be incorporated in the agreement that, no matter what or any sanctions, the project must be completed and out of any sanctions.