Dassault's Hesitancy on ToT for Rafale May Further Delay India's MRFA Program

India's ambitious plans for acquiring 114 Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) under a new "Make in India" policy may face challenges due to the reluctance of Dassault Aviation, the maker of the Rafale fighter jet, to comply with technology transfer requirements.

The Indian government's new policy mandates that the chosen aircraft for the MRFA program not only be purchased but also fully manufactured within India. This shift in policy signifies a strong push for self-reliance in the defence sector.

Despite the Rafale being a frontrunner in previous MRFA bids and India's ongoing procurement of the aircraft, Dassault's hesitation to share critical technology for local production could be a major hurdle. This is despite the fact that Dassault is experiencing a surge in export orders for the Rafale, with a backlog exceeding 200 units.

The new MRFA policy aims to establish a robust domestic aerospace industry, going beyond mere assembly to include full production and technology transfer. This is in line with the government's "Atmanirbhar Bharat" (self-reliant India) initiative.

However, Dassault's reluctance could lead to potential delays in the MRFA acquisition timeline. Other contenders for the contract, including Boeing, SAAB, Lockheed Martin, Russia's MiG, and the Eurofighter Typhoon, may now have an advantage if they are more willing to meet the new policy's stringent requirements.

This situation presents a complex challenge for India, as it seeks to balance its immediate need for fighter jets with its long-term goal of developing a self-sufficient defence industry. The outcome of this negotiation with Dassault and other potential vendors will be crucial in determining the future of India's MRFA program and its broader aspirations for self-reliance in defence.

It remains to be seen how this impasse will be resolved, but it is clear that the stakes are high for both Dassault and India. The successful implementation of the MRFA program is crucial for India's national security, and Dassault's willingness to adapt to the new policy could determine its continued involvement in the Indian defence market.

 

[wallisk]

Perhaps Saab gripen E or SU 57 with 100℅TOT would be the better option

Russia will not part with AL41F or AL51F tech's at all.. Saab is now having a Very good chance even though 100% ToT is not there...

 

[wallisk]

Our foolish establishment is still hoping engine technology will be given easily... Instead open up Kaveri engine to private sector.. We can have 6 th Gen engines ASAP involve pvt sector they will address this within few months.

80% ToT on GEF414 engines deal will be signed hopefully this year. And this can give a solid push for Saab-HAL jv very next thing!

 

[desigandu]

If the French are unwilling to transfer technology, they should be disqualified from MRFA. As simple as that. ToT is a requirement. You either conform to it, or you offer alternatives for a compromise, or you simply don't get the contract. As simple as that.

Oh, and this news, if true, could also be a harbinger of what might happen in the engine co-development project. We need to tread carefully.

Good move by GOI; as eventually the French will play ball but may not give us 100% TOT, but set up domestic manufacturing with a JV partner and local ecosystem - could be workable as long as terms are good and we learn a lot…

 

[desigandu]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Akshat and Sanket are thrown into the dustbin trash can now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONLY Russia RAC-MIG can honor 100% ToT tech transfers now...

Russia has not given us 100% TOT even till today for Su-30 MKI and Brahmos - 100% tot is a dream…

 

[abhinav srivastava]

If dassault wont play ball, then pick boeing F/A 18, or F15 and give the naval order to boeing too.

Boeing has already shown its commitment to localisation. Factories in India build parts for all of Boeing's Apache helicopters, globally, even though we bought so few. Also, we build parts for the civilian boeing aircrafts too.

Lets not rely too much on US. You never know when will they impose sanctions.

 

[ramdas]

No country would willingly share its proprietary technology with other nations, especially when it comes to advanced technology such as engines. If all manufacturing takes place in India, it would significantly impact the profitability of the original seller. They would essentially have to start from scratch, which could take a minimum of 5 to 6 years. It's doubtful that India will achieve its desired aircraft goals under these circumstances.

 

[Philippe Picard]

Right now ONLY 2 viable options are there i.e., RAC-MIG MIG35 with 100% ToT's make in India- with all DRDO-BEL AESA radars fbw computers displays avionics and EW SPJ systems. And also, build using NAL-HAL developed latest polymer composites 95% of MIG35-i airframe for lowest RCS. Can pay MBDA and integrate Meteors also to Uttam AESA radar for this MIG35i next...
Other option would be to co-develop Saab Gripen-E similar to the MIG35i as mentioned above; by removing ALL European-USA makes of avionics radars etc. Only 80% ToT's of GE-F414 engines are the hurdles here...
BUT however, both of above options will invlove time and funds for the redevelopment process of these jets..

Can pay MBDA and integrate Meteors also to Uttam AESA radar for this MIG35i next...YOU DREAM!!MBDA is European and they will never agree to put that in a russian plane.

 

[Philippe Picard]

I am 100% sure Saab will emerge out of the ashes of MRFA, as the final winner- even though it will take a lot more time and funds to replace all European and USA make of avionics systems in Gripen-E. Then Saab-HAL jv can move faster on MK2 and AMCA programs also with Saab tech's.

Saab use the GE F414 engine....

 

[Philippe Picard]

NO country in the world is ready to give up engine tech's and radar ew systems tech's so easily. Might be Saab Gripen-E could emerge a winner as they showed a lot of interest for jv with HAL to make in India Indian-GripenE, it remains to be seen?

Saab Gripen-E use the GE F414 engine and the M88...

 

[PKPRS]

It would be nice if Boeing gives maximum possible TOT and the US government doesn't impose any restrictions for F-15EX. Then we can go for it. Either that or increase the number of Tejas every year.

It can, as F/A-18 has reached end of life cycle, but on F15EX unlikely.

 

[Philippe Picard]

Oh so that's why Australia got mad and ditch the french submarine deal and paid the penalty instead of continuing the deal🙀.... Meh, even I have relatives in Canada, their not keen on French speaking people in Canada especially because their too much reclusive and a more racist than the British origin people...

so what do think about the British (Celtic Germanic) folks and French (Celtic) dudes... Who do you think more reliable and not racist?

so what do think about the British (Celtic Germanic) folks and French (Celtic) dudes... Who do you think more reliable and not racist? The French are Celtic Germanic...NORMAN, FRANK, BURGANDY and Gaulish...Revise your history.

 

[PKPRS]

If dassault wont play ball, then pick boeing F/A 18, or F15 and give the naval order to boeing too.

Boeing has already shown its commitment to localisation. Factories in India build parts for all of Boeing's Apache helicopters, globally, even though we bought so few. Also, we build parts for the civilian boeing aircrafts too.

Dassault play balled 10 years ago, that’s the reason for the cancellation of MRCA 1.0, at-least at that time they didn’t have a single export order, they will definitely play ball with their order book full for another 10 years, there is no surprise, these guys at MOD wasted 10 precious years, dragging this, we should have jumped to Typhoon 10 years ago, dumping Rafale alltogether at that time.

 

[Pink Panther]

With SU-30 upgrade in the pipeline, I wonder if they will go for F15, we could make 200 Gripen and for the Navy we could go with 50+ F/A-18 made in India.

SAAB is also secretly developing 5th gen aircraft independently called FLYGSYSTEM 2020, may be they can help us with AMCA also, probably the private entity that makes Gripen can use the Production line for making Tejas MK2 or ORCA or both later on.

 

[PKPRS]

But sir, we do already have the Su-30MKIs, the equivalent to the F15s. Don't you think the Typhoon would be a better alternativeto the Rafales?

Typhoon or Gripen-E, we will be locally making GE-F414 engine that Gripen Has, so in that case making Gripen would be a lot cheaper and makes sense unless otherwise we go with EJ200 engine that ‘s in Typhoon.

 

[Anant]

Good move by GOI; as eventually the French will play ball but may not give us 100% TOT, but set up domestic manufacturing with a JV partner and local ecosystem - could be workable as long as terms are good and we learn a lot…

The deals mandated that most of the MRFA fleet would have to be locally manufactured. The idea was never 100% ToT. It has long been known that'll any local production will involve, atleast to an extent, screwdrivering.

However, this article now, if true, would suggest Dassault has some issue with the pre-existing level of ToT that was in place had they won the order. If that is the case, then we need to look deeply at it.

Complete production won't happen, boss. The timelines simply do not allow for it. As it is, I have a feeling it'd just be 96 locally built plus 18 purchased off-the-shelf.

 

[Anant]

Because Govt and IAF only paid for 5 hangars in LCA division. 3 more from legacy Kiran hangars. With this infra and a DPSU, expecting more is unrealistic.

This is set to change … 8 more hangars in LCA division will start rolling out Mk1A this fiscal. About 8 Su30MkI hangars in Nashik is also being repurposed and should start roll out by this fiscal. My estimate is Nashik roll out will take longer than this fiscal. All in all, by next fiscal HAL will deliver 20+ Tejas annually.

Considering that they are still far, far behind, I'll be happy if HAL can manage 8 aircraft this fiscal year, let alone the 16 they are promising. There was an article just today that deliveries may be delayed even further due to supply chain issues.

Believe you me when I say that HAL is spectacularly incapable of delivering on time. Even if they have the infrastructure to deliver 24 aircraft a year, they'll struggle to go to double digits.

 

[Anant]

India should go with gripen e which has more powerful radar and ew systems than rafale and euro fighter thypoon . Germany is worst country and they will block eurofighter TOTs. France back stabbed India in MMRCA and mirage 2000 upgrade.

France did not stab us in the back with MMRCA. They did that (sort of) with the Mirage 2000 upgrade, but not in MMRCA.

 

[Anant]

Better to cancel the MRFA and go for atleast 350 MK1a and 350 MK2 and develop ORCA as 5th gen replacement for Su-30MKI

And would getting those jets by, say, 2075 make sense?

 

[Anant]

We need those jets as fast as possible and if we going for USA. Ask for f35 only.. Or else buy 4 squad of rafale or su 35 or 57 with TOT and we need our production line to be up.. Mk1 won't serve much we need amca atleast mk2 version of tejas for stability

You can ask the Americans for anything. Whether or not they offer it is another matter entirely.

 

[Pad UwU]

But sir, we do already have the Su-30MKIs, the equivalent to the F15s. Don't you think the Typhoon would be a better alternativeto the Rafales?

F15EX is much better multirole air superiority against su30mki.... It's also much better than rafale f3 or f4.2.... if we didn't get the f15ex, then we should instead get EFT and force eurofighter consortium to make us it's new member as it's asian hub and developer so we can integrate our own Uttam radar, other sensor plus our missile. Its much better too if UK, Germany, Spain and Italy branch out here😹😹😹.... In the end US would be having headache if they want sanctions us, so the final thought is that it would be a waste of time for US neither the European eurofighter consortium because we are part of their ecosystem...

gripen too is a good choice LMAO, why would we shun a chicken when it's already letting us to bite it😹😹😹

 

[Pad UwU]

It would be nice if Boeing gives maximum possible TOT and the US government doesn't impose any restrictions for F-15EX. Then we can go for it. Either that or increase the number of Tejas every year.

Yeah that would be lovely

 

[Pad UwU]

With SU-30 upgrade in the pipeline, I wonder if they will go for F15, we could make 200 Gripen and for the Navy we could go with 50+ F/A-18 made in India.

Su30mki upgrade needs to be a super version not a incremental upgrade

 

[james mani]

IAF and MOD take a choice to FULL FILL Indian dreams of make in India and Support IAF needs without compromise

 

[Philippe Picard]

F15EX is much better multirole air superiority against su30mki.... It's also much better than rafale f3 or f4.2.... if we didn't get the f15ex, then we should instead get EFT and force eurofighter consortium to make us it's new member as it's asian hub and developer so we can integrate our own Uttam radar, other sensor plus our missile. Its much better too if UK, Germany, Spain and Italy branch out here😹😹😹.... In the end US would be having headache if they want sanctions us, so the final thought is that it would be a waste of time for US neither the European eurofighter consortium because we are part of their ecosystem...

gripen too is a good choice LMAO, why would we shun a chicken when it's already letting us to bite it😹😹😹

indeed, your anglo-saxon master is vastly superior to the French puddles. Rafale 4.2 is already obsolete compare to the Ef tranche 3, especially the UK version....God Bless the king.

 

[Philippe Picard]

Yeah that would be lovely

keep dreaming...

 

[Philippe Picard]

Dassault play balled 10 years ago, that’s the reason for the cancellation of MRCA 1.0, at-least at that time they didn’t have a single export order, they will definitely play ball with their order book full for another 10 years, there is no surprise, these guys at MOD wasted 10 precious years, dragging this, we should have jumped to Typhoon 10 years ago, dumping Rafale alltogether at that time.

Except SA and the European (even UK is not in Europe), nobody buy the Typhoon and even SA consider to buy the Rafale rightnow. The only serious contender of the F-35 is the Rafale.

 

[PKPRS]

Su30mki upgrade needs to be a super version not a incremental upgrade

After upgrade they say it will be better than SU-35, so in that case they wouldn’t be interested in a similar class product, if they select any 4th gen jet from US it will be either F21 or F/A-18 or both, when it comes between F21 and Gripen they will rather choose Gripen which is modern, Typhoon also has more chances depending on TOT.

 

[Man-ju]

This actually comes from the New Indian Express article regarding MMRCA where "Sources" are claiming. Let's not jump to conclusions, this may be a promotional report on behalf of US. Whether this is true or false have faith in our government and hope the best fighter wins 😉. Atleast that seems to be the plot.

 

[Man-ju]

Akshat should explain us why France his beloved company is not willing to give Transfer of Technology to India???🤔🧐
and his bias approach that it's already a
done deal of MRFA procurement. That sometimes he's like a payed up campaigner or salesman of Dassault France 😹😹😹

Akshat pls enlighten us in your opinion about this article 😺

Why target one person? First of all what is the authenticity of the claims in this article.

 

[Jessica Cheong]

Wow this is so call ambitious to get the ToT from other countries? If people not transfer the technology just sit down and crying? Ambitious is to R&D and develop the technology yourself, not like a beggar to beg for something from someone