Dassault's Hesitancy on ToT for Rafale May Further Delay India's MRFA Program

India's ambitious plans for acquiring 114 Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) under a new "Make in India" policy may face challenges due to the reluctance of Dassault Aviation, the maker of the Rafale fighter jet, to comply with technology transfer requirements.

The Indian government's new policy mandates that the chosen aircraft for the MRFA program not only be purchased but also fully manufactured within India. This shift in policy signifies a strong push for self-reliance in the defence sector.

Despite the Rafale being a frontrunner in previous MRFA bids and India's ongoing procurement of the aircraft, Dassault's hesitation to share critical technology for local production could be a major hurdle. This is despite the fact that Dassault is experiencing a surge in export orders for the Rafale, with a backlog exceeding 200 units.

The new MRFA policy aims to establish a robust domestic aerospace industry, going beyond mere assembly to include full production and technology transfer. This is in line with the government's "Atmanirbhar Bharat" (self-reliant India) initiative.

However, Dassault's reluctance could lead to potential delays in the MRFA acquisition timeline. Other contenders for the contract, including Boeing, SAAB, Lockheed Martin, Russia's MiG, and the Eurofighter Typhoon, may now have an advantage if they are more willing to meet the new policy's stringent requirements.

This situation presents a complex challenge for India, as it seeks to balance its immediate need for fighter jets with its long-term goal of developing a self-sufficient defence industry. The outcome of this negotiation with Dassault and other potential vendors will be crucial in determining the future of India's MRFA program and its broader aspirations for self-reliance in defence.

It remains to be seen how this impasse will be resolved, but it is clear that the stakes are high for both Dassault and India. The successful implementation of the MRFA program is crucial for India's national security, and Dassault's willingness to adapt to the new policy could determine its continued involvement in the Indian defence market.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Lets not rely too much on US. You never know when will they impose sanctions.

You can absolutely rely on US. just look at pakistan, they were on FATF grey list for so long, saudis murdered an american journalist in their embassy, qatar supports and gives shelters to terrorists (hamas and taliban), yet america has no hesitation selling them all the weapons they need.

You can always rely on USA when it comes to buying weapons from them.

 

[Varaaah]

Do like the Brazilian. Buy components and assemble your own configuration, till you can make these planes yourself.

 

[PKPRS]

Then all except Saab and RAC-MIG will remain in MRFA as USA, EuroGmBh Sukhoi will NEVER allowed 100% ToT's..

If we can get MIG-35 for dirt cheap or even SU-75, both options are highly doubtful at this time to escape from the wrath of many Countries.

We have advantage in making either SAAB Gripen or MIG-35, in case of MIG-35 we already make the engine RD-33MK locally, we are planning on upgrading all our MIGS to UPG standard that includes replacing the old engine with RD-33MK engine, in case of Gripen we will soon be making GE-F414 engine, if that doesn’t happen or gets dragged indefinitely then we might make MIG-35.

 

[PKPRS]

which company will do tech transfer just for sake of 36 to 100+ fighter aircraft...
if we have enough money try to buy dassault or buy 49/51 % stake (sure french or usa politicians will not allow it)... OR just be pure customer without conjjucy of technology...

Post tech transfer as if Indians are innocent, wont they try to compete with original vendor themselves in other country fighter aircraft markets ?

If SAAB is selected they will make 200 also, that was the plan a while ago.

 

[kumar]

You can absolutely rely on US. just look at pakistan, they were on FATF grey list for so long, saudis murdered an american journalist in their embassy, qatar supports and gives shelters to terrorists (hamas and taliban), yet america has no hesitation selling them all the weapons they need.

You can always rely on USA when it comes to buying weapons from them.

That's because US needed Pakistan for their war on terror and keep them arming terrorists

 

[desigandu]

You can ask the Americans for anything. Whether or not they offer it is another matter entirely.

Times are changing and the Americans are much more open to India, not because they just love us now, but the fact that American capacity has relatively declined worldwide since 2000, more so in the indo-pacific and given we are already in coldwar2 they want India on their side,, even without a formal alliance…Also in the long term there is no one but India who has the ambition, the foundation and the resources to be a great power…Americans are smart, ruthless and will do what it takes for their national interest - and so should Bharat…Jai Hind…Jai Bharat…China must be neutered, contained and eventually balkanised for the good of the world…

 

[desigandu]

The deals mandated that most of the MRFA fleet would have to be locally manufactured. The idea was never 100% ToT. It has long been known that'll any local production will involve, atleast to an extent, screwdrivering.

However, this article now, if true, would suggest Dassault has some issue with the pre-existing level of ToT that was in place had they won the order. If that is the case, then we need to look deeply at it.

Complete production won't happen, boss. The timelines simply do not allow for it. As it is, I have a feeling it'd just be 96 locally built plus 18 purchased off-the-shelf.

Still acceptable if we get 36 in flyaway condition, delivered by 2028, and production of the rest 12-18 per year locally by 2029-2030, with JV, local suppliers and increasing amount of TOT…

 

[desigandu]

IMPOSSIBLE!! USA-Congress will NEVER EVER allow 100% tech transfers to India. Just look at GEF414 deal they are giving only 80% because US-Congress disallowed full ToT's...

Why should they?

 

[Anant]

Still acceptable if we get 36 in flyaway condition, delivered by 2028, and production of the rest 12-18 per year locally by 2029-2030, with JV, local suppliers and increasing amount of TOT…

If we sign a contract today, we might start getting the off-the-shelf Rafales starting 2028-29. As for Rafales being built locally, well, we may have to wait for the next decade before we start getting them. Even so, if you assume 36 are purchased in fly-away condition, that makes for 78 aircraft to be built locally, which would mean a production rate of 11-12 aircraft a year.

 

[Anant]

Times are changing and the Americans are much more open to India, not because they just love us now, but the fact that American capacity has relatively declined worldwide since 2000, more so in the indo-pacific and given we are already in coldwar2 they want India on their side,, even without a formal alliance…Also in the long term there is no one but India who has the ambition, the foundation and the resources to be a great power…Americans are smart, ruthless and will do what it takes for their national interest - and so should Bharat…Jai Hind…Jai Bharat…China must be neutered, contained and eventually balkanised for the good of the world…

America doesn't love India. They never have, and they never will. They love their own position, and want to ensure they remain at the top for all of eternity.

They want India on their side purely as a hedge against China. In many ways, India is the only logical competitor to China. Mark my words when I say that once the Chinese are gone, India will be the next target.

They would absolutely love it if India was to become a Treaty ally to them, something similar to South Korea or Japan or NATO or Australia or New Zealand. I mean, if we did that today and said goodbye to our strategic autonomy, I'll bet you anything that we'd have F-16s and F-35s getting inducted into the IAF before 2030.

However, they have also realised that India isn't like those Treaty Allies. In many ways, India is doing what the Americans have: Look for their own national interest first. For now, as long as Russia and China are the boogey-men for the Americans, they are happy to partner with India. The moment those are gone, India will become the new boogey-man.

 

[Pad UwU]

After upgrade they say it will be better than SU-35, so in that case they wouldn’t be interested in a similar class product, if they select any 4th gen jet from US it will be either F21 or F/A-18 or both, when it comes between F21 and Gripen they will rather choose Gripen which is modern, Typhoon also has more chances depending on TOT.

Its highly doubtful, how can it be more powerful than su35s when that Russian aircraft is already been use as testbed of some of su57 components..... While our own is still not war proven reliable in real war... Only western aircraft is still more comparable or a bit more combat proven and reliable against Russian origin

 

[desigandu]

America doesn't love India. They never have, and they never will. They love their own position, and want to ensure they remain at the top for all of eternity.

They want India on their side purely as a hedge against China. In many ways, India is the only logical competitor to China. Mark my words when I say that once the Chinese are gone, India will be the next target.

They would absolutely love it if India was to become a Treaty ally to them, something similar to South Korea or Japan or NATO or Australia or New Zealand. I mean, if we did that today and said goodbye to our strategic autonomy, I'll bet you anything that we'd have F-16s and F-35s getting inducted into the IAF before 2030.

However, they have also realised that India isn't like those Treaty Allies. In many ways, India is doing what the Americans have: Look for their own national interest first. For now, as long as Russia and China are the boogey-men for the Americans, they are happy to partner with India. The moment those are gone, India will become the new boogey-man.

I agree 100%. You are astute reader of geopolitics. China is what it is today due to US investments, technology and ideas as they did not want it to go like Soviet Union...India is the new boy in town against China - we must play this well so we can develop...India may become a threat to the US but not before 2050, is my prediction - but it will that is for sure...Also if you are the US you are doing what is in your interest, nothing wrong with that...

 

[Pad UwU]

Except SA and the European (even UK is not in Europe), nobody buy the Typhoon and even SA consider to buy the Rafale rightnow. The only serious contender of the F-35 is the Rafale.

You mean they are not a member of European Union instead UK is a European country

 

[Pad UwU]

indeed, your anglo-saxon master is vastly superior to the French puddles. Rafale 4.2 is already obsolete compare to the Ef tranche 3, especially the UK version....God Bless the king.

Your a Canadian citizen well I also consider you as a Anglo Saxon people with a blood of Celtic French.... And why are so racist to your own kind😹😹😹...

are you one of those WOKE's from USA 🙃

 

[Pad UwU]

Why target one person? First of all what is the authenticity of the claims in this article.

Well he's claiming that MRFA procurement team is already done deal that's why we want his input... But a French Canadian dude make us confuse when he began ranting

 

[PKPRS]

If dassault wont play ball, then pick boeing F/A 18, or F15 and give the naval order to boeing too.

Boeing has already shown its commitment to localisation. Factories in India build parts for all of Boeing's Apache helicopters, globally, even though we bought so few. Also, we build parts for the civilian boeing aircrafts too.

But I highly doubt if we get any TOT, only SAAB and Russia can offer some degree of TOT, but in this current situation GOI will avoid buying Russian jet to escape from the wrath, we should negotiate properly with the Europeans to start a new Typhoon production and servicing line and get some degree of TOT if they decide to go with twin engine route, if not SAAB would be willing to offer more TOT as they are more desperate, in this case we could get F/A-18’s for the Navy.

 

[PKPRS]

But sir, we do already have the Su-30MKIs, the equivalent to the F15s. Don't you think the Typhoon would be a better alternativeto the Rafales?

Or Gripen or even both.

 

[Pad UwU]

so what do think about the British (Celtic Germanic) folks and French (Celtic) dudes... Who do you think more reliable and not racist? The French are Celtic Germanic...NORMAN, FRANK, BURGANDY and Gaulish...Revise your history.

Normans, Franks, Burgundian or Gaulish are Celtics....
Your hate against British is plainly racist 😹😹😹 just because the English are hybridize Celtic Anglo Saxon from Germanic origin.... Your hilarious 🤭😹
british people compose of Scot's, Welsh and Irish from Northern Ireland(except republic of Ireland, but previously they are considered British before they got independent) are Celtic people and English are hybridize Celtic Anglo Saxon of Germanic origin....

dont you ever think you just a revisionist Frenchies and don't want to accept your a racist against your British relatives😹😹😹

 

[PKPRS]

F15EX is much better multirole air superiority against su30mki.... It's also much better than rafale f3 or f4.2.... if we didn't get the f15ex, then we should instead get EFT and force eurofighter consortium to make us it's new member as it's asian hub and developer so we can integrate our own Uttam radar, other sensor plus our missile. Its much better too if UK, Germany, Spain and Italy branch out here😹😹😹.... In the end US would be having headache if they want sanctions us, so the final thought is that it would be a waste of time for US neither the European eurofighter consortium because we are part of their ecosystem...

gripen too is a good choice LMAO, why would we shun a chicken when it's already letting us to bite it😹😹😹

TOT will again be a problem with F15, we might at-least get some degree of TOT on F/A-18 but on F15 it is highly doubtful, as many Countries are still buying them like Egypt, South Korea, Indonesia and others, may be can get a couple of squadrons of those in a G2G deal off the shelf.

 

[Akshat]

Akshat should explain us why France his beloved company is not willing to give Transfer of Technology to India???🤔🧐
and his bias approach that it's already a
done deal of MRFA procurement. That sometimes he's like a payed up campaigner or salesman of Dassault France 😹😹😹

Akshat pls enlighten us in your opinion about this article 😺

Proof?

 

[Pad UwU]

Russia has not given us 100% TOT even till today for Su-30 MKI and Brahmos - 100% tot is a dream…

At least they give some real technology transfer, unlike what the article is saying France is not keen on sharing it's technology... Does it means zero transfer at all😹😹😹

 

[PKPRS]

Its highly doubtful, how can it be more powerful than su35s when that Russian aircraft is already been use as testbed of some of su57 components..... While our own is still not war proven reliable in real war... Only western aircraft is still more comparable or a bit more combat proven and reliable against Russian origin

Our AL-31F1 engine is little more powerful than what other’s have, I wish they replace that engine with AL-41 engine during Super upgrade, otherwise our SU-30 will face the same fate as DARIN-3 upgrade in Jaguar which made it overweight and slow.

 

[Sea Harrier]

If dassault wont play ball, then pick boeing F/A 18, or F15 and give the naval order to boeing too.

Boeing has already shown its commitment to localisation. Factories in India build parts for all of Boeing's Apache helicopters, globally, even though we bought so few. Also, we build parts for the civilian boeing aircrafts too.

Long story short bhai...
we don't need Air superiority fighter..
we already have mkis.
we need Multirole intermediate jet like Rafale. They know it and playing with us. 🙄

 

[wallisk]

Saab Gripen-E use the GE F414 engine and the M88...

That is WHY India is trying to sign deal with USA soon, for HAL manufacturing of GEF414 engines. Already talks are progressing quite well... If deal is signed then HAL manufactures GEF414 engines. Then can also make in India Gripen-E with Saab..

 

[Pad UwU]

TOT will again be a problem with F15, we might at-least get some degree of TOT on F/A-18 but on F15 it is highly doubtful, as many Countries are still buying them like Egypt, South Korea, Indonesia and others, may be can get a couple of squadrons of those in a G2G deal off the shelf.

Then maybe it's better to choose Saab Gripen instead 🤔😉 if the problem is ToT's and future sanctions

 

[wallisk]

Saab use the GE F414 engine....

That is why NDA gov is trying very hard to sign deal with US Biden Govt. for make in India by HAL of GEF414 engines...

 

[Pad UwU]

Our AL-31F1 engine is little more powerful than what other’s have, I wish they replace that engine with AL-41 engine during Super upgrade, otherwise our SU-30 will face the same fate as DARIN-3 upgrade in Jaguar which made it overweight and slow.

Problem is we already got some incites of technology from Al31f engine problem is we wasted time from ground zero in Kaveri and didn't put something together.... Plus we also might didn't request government to government approach in al41f so we don't have access to more advance engine.... Al51f on other hand is impossible because we ditch the su57 project kakakakak 😹😹😹

 

[Pad UwU]

Proof?

You forgot your past comment 😹😹😹.... Typical Akshat 🙃🤭
too much excuses

 

[Pad UwU]

I am 100% sure Saab will emerge out of the ashes of MRFA, as the final winner- even though it will take a lot more time and funds to replace all European and USA make of avionics systems in Gripen-E. Then Saab-HAL jv can move faster on MK2 and AMCA programs also with Saab tech's.

Maybe Saab Gripen will win, but I'm still hoping for f15ex or EFT 😒

 

[Man-ju]

Well he's claiming that MRFA procurement team is already done deal that's why we want his input... But a French Canadian dude make us confuse when he began ranting

Sometimes people say things that satisfy their own ego. Don't take them personally and also don't make it personal. Defence.in is just a news collaborator, not some official source.