Dassault's High Costs and Lengthy Upgrade Cycles Cast Shadow Over Rafale's Astra Mk1 Integration and Future MRFA Acquisition

Dassault Aviation, the French manufacturer of the Rafale fighter jet, is facing scrutiny over its upgrade programs, with experts raising concerns about high costs and protracted timelines.

This comes in the wake of Dassault's recent statement that replacing the Rafale's current RBE2 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar with India's indigenous Uttam AESA could take up to eight years.

This announcement has rekindled memories of the drawn-out Mirage-2000 upgrade program, which was plagued by similar delays and cost overruns. Defence experts point to the Mirage-2000 modernization as a prime example, where upgrading 50 Indian Air Force (IAF) jets took over eight years and ended up costing nearly as much as acquiring new aircraft. The upgrade, which involved enhancing the aircraft's avionics, radar, and weapon systems, significantly exceeded its initial timeline and budget.

Experts argue that this pattern of lengthy upgrade cycles and high costs is characteristic of Dassault's aerospace programs, particularly when integrating new technologies. This raises serious questions about India's future plans, especially concerning the IAF's Medium Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) tender for 114 jets, where the Rafale F4 is a leading contender.

Concerns are also growing over India's reliance on Dassault for integrating indigenous weapon systems into its fighter jets. Integrating India's Astra Mk1 air-to-air missile into the Rafale, for instance, necessitated technical support from Dassault, adding significant costs and complexities.

"If we continue using the RBE2 AESA on our Rafale jets, we will remain dependent on Dassault for every upgrade to the weapons systems, similar to what was seen with the Astra missile integration," an expert explained. "This kind of dependency means India will have to pay a hefty price for every new development."

To address these challenges, experts advocate for India to gain greater autonomy over its aircraft systems, especially mission computers and radar systems. For the MRFA tender, they urge India to insist on acquiring the source code for the aircraft's systems or replacing critical components like the radar with indigenous alternatives like the Uttam AESA. This, they argue, is crucial to avoid recurring costs and delays in upgrading jets to integrate India's growing indigenous weapons inventory.

"If India goes ahead with the Rafale F4 jets for the MRFA tender, it needs to ensure that the mission computers and radar systems are either fully under Indian control or capable of integrating Indian weapons without relying on Dassault," an expert emphasized.

The MRFA tender is vital for modernizing the IAF, but experts caution that decisions made now will have long-term consequences. Without control over critical systems, India risks facing escalating costs and operational limitations. This reflects a growing sentiment within India's defence community that emphasizes indigenous systems and self-reliance as the path to break free from dependency on foreign manufacturers and their costly upgrade cycles.

 

[atuls1590]

Why are we going behind France, USA and western lobby when we have reliable partner in Russia. India should do MIG 35 deal with russia under MRFA program and also go for AL31 FP engine deal for it's Tejas MKII and AMCA program.

 

[sanket]

Dassault is Not known for serious upgrades I have alway highlighted difference between Mirage-2000 upgrade package & MIG-29 From cost to Integration of Indigenous ,Third party system & weapons Mirage-2000 F-16 & MIG-29 are almost of same Era But after upgrade apart From Mirage-2000 are more deadly than Mirage in Air, Infact Mirage-2000 has to fly nder escort of MIG-29 to perfporm Ground attack Mission , First it was cost second its sensors and weapons are not upto mark, I again say Bharat should go for Rafale F5 instead of Rafale 4 , Rafale F5 will come with GaN based AESA Radar & improved weapon packages, Super sukhoi after Indigenous upgrade will have Range Range over 400 KM , its AESA Radar may havr 1800 to 2400 TRM, second it will b GaN based AESA Radar , actually Russia is offering AL-41 for super Sukhoi but IAF is not interested and on other hand Dassault say for Integrating Uttam Radar on Rafalw witll take 8 years for Testing & certification thats Difference MIG-29 & Super sukhoi can b upgraded without Russian help & permission & on other hand First Dassault doesnt allow its upgrades wto other & denying of Third party weapons Super sukhoi will b Integrated with Astra Family Rudram , Brahmos-NG, Nirbhay SAAW while Rafale itself is Missing Rudram category Missile missile in its weapon package which is Anti-radiation Missile falling back compared to Su-30 MKI. i again say If Rafale is strong contemder Than Su-35 is Dark Horse of MRFA with allowing Customise upgrades with lesser cost.

 

[The Presence]

If we try to upgrade arbitrarily, then Dassault is sure to threaten taking away the warrenty.

 

[Aloo]

Slow but realistic.

I belive in French MIC composes of scientists and researchers with a proven past more than a defence expert about which no one knows what makes him expert.

Just the bad thing is few of my fellow Indians don't share same generosity of "realistic timeline" with Indian companies, just call them "will become obsolete".

 

[NSR]

It is high time that India put all the MRFA money into Indian programs like Tejas IAs, Tejas Mk 2s, TEDBFs, and AMCA Is and push hard to make them a reality.

I wrote again and again that Mirage-2000 upgrades to Mirage-2000I stinks to high heaven and really a daylight robbery as it did not enhance its performance against any of the modern-day fighters with long range BVRAAMs.
Mirage-2000I needs shotgun riding Big Brothers to survive against most fighters carrying an AESA radar and BVRAAM missiles.

India made a serious mistake by not ordering additional 36 as options right when first 36 Rafale deliveries were being fulfilled almost 5+ years ago.
But the curse on India, RG Pappu was calling PM "Chowkidar Chor Hai".

Some politicians just do not care about Indian security and defenses and only cares about winning at polls at whatever way they can.
Sad indeed.

 

[PKPRS]

Dassault is Not known for serious upgrades I have alway highlighted difference between Mirage-2000 upgrade package & MIG-29 From cost to Integration of Indigenous ,Third party system & weapons Mirage-2000 F-16 & MIG-29 are almost of same Era But after upgrade apart From Mirage-2000 are more deadly than Mirage in Air, Infact Mirage-2000 has to fly nder escort of MIG-29 to perfporm Ground attack Mission , First it was cost second its sensors and weapons are not upto mark, I again say Bharat should go for Rafale F5 instead of Rafale 4 , Rafale F5 will come with GaN based AESA Radar & improved weapon packages, Super sukhoi after Indigenous upgrade will have Range Range over 400 KM , its AESA Radar may havr 1800 to 2400 TRM, second it will b GaN based AESA Radar , actually Russia is offering AL-41 for super Sukhoi but IAF is not interested and on other hand Dassault say for Integrating Uttam Radar on Rafalw witll take 8 years for Testing & certification thats Difference MIG-29 & Super sukhoi can b upgraded without Russian help & permission & on other hand First Dassault doesnt allow its upgrades wto other & denying of Third party weapons Super sukhoi will b Integrated with Astra Family Rudram , Brahmos-NG, Nirbhay SAAW while Rafale itself is Missing Rudram category Missile missile in its weapon package which is Anti-radiation Missile falling back compared to Su-30 MKI. i again say If Rafale is strong contemder Than Su-35 is Dark Horse of MRFA with allowing Customise upgrades with lesser cost.

They will charge $100Mln for the upgrade, This is why Navy wanted to upgrade UTTAM radar, end of Rafale (.)., this is best time to invest MRFA money into Indian products, stop this unfeasible MRFA nonsense, buy helicopters, drones , stryker from the US to get GE engine because without that we can’t do much, otherwise just use whatever engine is available locally like AL-31FP, RD-33MK and make a jet.

 

[desigandu]

MRFA must (will be cancelled is my prediction) be cancelled and Rafales (Dassault and France) can't meet Bharat's/IAFs needs

1. They cant delivered the planes before 2035, as in 2023 they delivered only 13 jets, till now in 2024 only 6 jets, and are struggling to even get to 24 jets by 2025; so given their backlog and priority to French orders, we cant get the 114 jets by 2030; hopefully they will deliver the 26 Rafale Ms before 2030;
2. Given their supply chain constraints and lack of capacity a new assembly line in India is almost impossible;
3. Their technology on Radars is GAA and thus obsolete;
4. They will not give much TOT (as we have seen in Mirages and previous Rafales);
5. and they may be too expensive to buy and operate...even more to procure than F-35As, even when you compare lifecycle costs...

Solution - nothing is ideal, but we should scrap MRFA, and put a lot of efforts, money, resources in accelerating Tejas Mk2, AMCA, High thrust engine and Kaveri2...Even though Tejas Mk2 may not be as advanced as F4 standard, at least it is our own and we can make improvements...Only atmanirbharta is the solution, rest is just band aid...

Also if Pakistan acquires J31s (which it will before 2030) we could beg/implore the Americans for 50 F-35As - they will give it with strings attached, but what choices will we have when our AMCA will only be produced by 2035...

 

[Aayush Pratap]

Before anything, how does Uttam compare to RBE2? Unless, it has something better to offer this should not even be a discussion. No technical comparison shared anywhere in the article and this so called defence expert wants us to just start meddling around with the new birds. Waise bhi aaj kal har koi defence expert hai.

 

[Vijay Anand]

It's always been for economics/extreme geopolitics.

No country would suddenly step forward and share their most important tech for free, as a lot of people in this forum take sides of each foreign country, in this context France.

Only way in long term to save forex and time is by developing in-house which is the toughest route but well worth if the right environment for R&D and infra with appreciable talent is retained.

 

[NSR]

It's always been for economics/extreme geopolitics.

No country would suddenly step forward and share their most important tech for free, as a lot of people in this forum take sides of each foreign country, in this context France.

Only way in long term to save forex and time is by developing in-house which is the toughest route but well worth if the right environment for R&D and infra with appreciable talent is retained.

Vijay,
The OEMs are promising Moon (TOTs and offsets) and taking money but reneging on giving any TOTs and offsets, example Scorpene Submarines, MMRCA L1 Bidder Dassault Rafale, etc

India must invest massively in R&D in universities, public and private labs, private companie and startup companies with seed monies to develop the technologies India lacks.

Even after 3+ decades of making AL-31 engine, India only manages to produce 54% components in India due to Russian OEM reluctant to transfer TOTs.
Sad considering old USSR and new Russia is our privileged and strategic partner.

There is no other way than investing in our own R&D and industries.

 

[NSR]

Before anything, how does Uttam compare to RBE2? Unless, it has something better to offer this should not even be a discussion. No technical comparison shared anywhere in the article and this so called defence expert wants us to just start meddling around with the new birds. Waise bhi aaj kal har koi defence expert hai.

Uttam radars are being built with superior and low power requirement GaN T/R module AESA radar.

RBE2 AESA radar is based on old GaS T/R technology with heavy power requirements.

Best regards.

 

[The annoying thing]

I suspect the 8 years required to integrate the Uttam AESA radar includes development of the sensor itself.
It took Thales, on top of 40 years of knowhow acquired through the Cyrano, RDM, RDI and RDY radars that equipped the successive Mirage fighters, another decade and a half to develop the PESA and AESA radars that make
the Rafale so successful today. By contrast, the Uttam AESA radar has hardly started flight testing: according to Wikipedia, 125 flying hours in the last three years. You can’t just wish a radar into existence from scratch, it takes lengthy and painstaking testing to fine tune an operational sensor.

 

[Aayush Pratap]

Uttam radars are being built with superior and low power requirement GaN T/R module AESA radar.

RBE2 AESA radar is based on old GaS T/R technology with heavy power requirements.

Best regards.

These are paper specs which I'm aware of, how does it compare to the RBE2 in real life combat scenarios? That would require extensive side by side testing which hasn't happened.

 

[vikrant rao]

This is what comes of depending on European and North American countries for crucial defence supplies. They dominate the media narrative and public square with their bs propaganda and then coerce you into taking policy positions that favour them every so slightly a little at a time & before you know it a decade has past and you are back where you started- having to pacify and coddle them with visits to unelected heads of state involved in their wars as a show of solidarity, say the right words etc etc. When will India wake up and go with the devil it knows and rather than the devil it doesn't!? Being dependent on Russia is one thing but trying to balance strategic sovereignty at the cost of national security is another!