DRDO to Develop Lighter ATAGS Variant for Enhanced Battlefield Mobility

In a boost to India's artillery modernization efforts, the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), a laboratory under the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO), has begun work on a lighter variant of the Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS).

This new version of the 155mm/52 calibre howitzer is designed to meet the Indian Army's specific requirements for a next-generation Towed Gun System (TGS) weighing under 15 tons.

The original ATAGS, already acknowledged for its firepower and battlefield performance, faced operational limitations due to its weight of approximately 18 tons. Recognizing the need for improved mobility and deployment, DRDO is developing a lighter variant to fulfill the army's stipulated specifications.

This new iteration of the ATAGS will retain its core firepower and reliability but will also undergo technological upgrades to enhance its overall capabilities. DRDO's primary objective is to deliver a Towed Gun System that seamlessly aligns with the Indian Army's need for rapid deployment across diverse terrains.

The Indian Army has placed an initial order for 400 next-generation Towed Gun Systems, highlighting the crucial need to upgrade its artillery forces to meet emerging security challenges.

While they intend to procure 307 units of the current ATAGS, the weight restrictions necessitate a lighter variant to complete the order and address potential future needs.

The projected demand for Towed Gun Systems could reach as high as 1200 units, presenting a significant opportunity for India's domestic defence industry.

The lighter ATAGS variant will compete with other contenders, such as the Adani-Elbit ATMOS howitzers, emphasizing the critical need for technologically superior solutions in the competitive defence procurement landscape.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Bro pls enlighten me an appropriate position for digging a hole and set an artilleries there in the Ladakh terrain.
Also pls enlighten me about the overrun positions of Ukrainian artilleries by Russians especially by Armoured vehicle regiments.

You can look at old videos of kargil war. India was using bofors guns at that time and also dug a hole, and created mud barriers on 3 sides of the hole. This is standard practice.

This kind of towed artillery will be minimum 15-20km away from frontline. Russians have not been able to move that much distance in their armored vehicle formations since the ffirst few weeks of the war. Even large scale assaults today only move few km at a time, at very heavy price.

Look at armeia azerbaijan wars, drones destroyed armenian artillery there as well. Number 1 threat to artillery is from air. Counter battery artlliery fire is overhyped. Same goes for tanks. Tanks are designed keeping in mind fighting other tanks( dense frontal armor, weak armor at back and on top), but now we see that threat for them is also from drones , LM, and ATGMs.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Your arguments seem illogical and absurd, if you don't mind.

You can look at ukraine war, armenia azerbaijan war and make your own mind.

 

[Ashutosh]

You can look at old videos of kargil war. India was using bofors guns at that time and also dug a hole, and created mud barriers on 3 sides of the hole. This is standard practice.

This kind of towed artillery will be minimum 15-20km away from frontline. Russians have not been able to move that much distance in their armored vehicle formations since the ffirst few weeks of the war. Even large scale assaults today only move few km at a time, at very heavy price.

Look at armeia azerbaijan wars, drones destroyed armenian artillery there as well. Number 1 threat to artillery is from air. Counter battery artlliery fire is overhyped. Same goes for tanks. Tanks are designed keeping in mind fighting other tanks( dense frontal armor, weak armor at back and on top), but now we see that threat for them is also from drones , LM, and ATGMs.

Bro just see what are u doing - said we should go for MGS, but u say permt. artilleries and now u r giving example of 25 years old war!?
Seriously!?
Bro go and see the Armenian Azeri war- perm. artilleries were literally bombed with no chance of survival.

Russia has literally screwed of Ukrainian artilleries if you actually don't know.
Just some footage of Ukrainian propaganda with slava Ukraini is a mere myth. Even worse than ghost of kiev.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Bro just see what are u doing - said we should go for MGS, but u say permt. artilleries and now u r giving example of 25 years old war!?
Seriously!?
Bro go and see the Armenian Azeri war- perm. artilleries were literally bombed with no chance of survival.

Russia has literally screwed of Ukrainian artilleries if you actually don't know.
Just some footage of Ukrainian propaganda with slava Ukraini is a mere myth. Even worse than ghost of kiev.

I am not looking at ukrainian propaganda.

My argument is that all kinds of artillery is screwed vs drones and LM. whether perm or truck mounted or self propelled. All kinds of artillery are sitting ducks.

Perm artillery (towed) has its advantage that it is cheaper and much lighter. It can be lifted by chinook and placed at strategic locations quickly. You cant do that with MGS.

I dont listen to ukrainian or russian propaganda. I refer to open source material is available online.

 

[Sandeep]

If you look at how ukraine is using artillery, they are not using shoot and scoot at all. They dig a hole, but the SPG or truck mounted system in the hole, cover it with camoflage netting and then fire. I have seen all these videos, and I have looked at the photos on oryx, you can see that some of the destroyed systems were hit while they were being camoflaged in dense foliage. Most were hit out in the open. Number 1 threat to them in future warfare would be from the air, and the priority should be to hide them.

Moving them around wpuld make them more vulnerable to detection lol

The artillery and technology used by Ukraine is very old as they don't have the capability to manufacture more modern and higher calibre advanced artillery guns because they lost them at the start of the war and their manufacturing factories have mostly been destroyed.

So they are stuck with mostly using 105mm or lower calibre guns and they have very few 155mm or 130mm guns left which will rarely be used. As Ukraine can't provide any quick and easy movable trucks to tow the guns or guns that can shoot and scoot then those guns are basically sitting targets. So they have no choice but to hide the guns with camouflage netting or around earth embankments and rarely use the gun so it can't be easily spotted by drones, helicopters or jets.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

The artillery and technology used by Ukraine is very old as they don't have the capability to manufacture more modern and higher calibre advanced artillery guns because they lost them at the start of the war and their manufacturing factories have mostly been destroyed.

So they are stuck with mostly using 105mm or lower calibre guns and they have very few 155mm or 130mm guns left which will rarely be used. As Ukraine can't provide any quick and easy movable trucks to tow the guns or guns that can shoot and scoot then those guns are basically sitting targets. So they have no choice but to hide the guns with camouflage netting or around earth embankments and rarely use the gun so it can't be easily spotted by drones, helicopters or jets.

Ukraine has received a large number of artillery systems from western countries.

Also, i have seen videos of ukraine using self propelled and truck mounted artillery as static artillery(put in hole in the ground and covered with camoflage).

Being in open for any kind of artillery means death.
You can find videos of truck mounted artillery being destroyed by drones while it was moving.

In fact on oryx website, you can see that ukraine has lost much more number of truck mounted and self propelled artillery than static artillery. This shows that moving around in open makes you more vulnerable in today's battlefield.

 

[Jay K Sinhal]

TGS vs MGS, question of survival.

 

[Ashutosh]

I am not looking at ukrainian propaganda.

My argument is that all kinds of artillery is screwed vs drones and LM. whether perm or truck mounted or self propelled. All kinds of artillery are sitting ducks.

Perm artillery (towed) has its advantage that it is cheaper and much lighter. It can be lifted by chinook and placed at strategic locations quickly. You cant do that with MGS.

I dont listen to ukrainian or russian propaganda. I refer to open source material is available online.

U expect Chinooks to airlift these platforms - bro artilleries are in hundreds . How many of them will you airlift!?
Forget that after airlifting then u have to have another transport to drop it.

Simply use the MGS and deploy .....no need to worry about their mobility atleast .

There is a reason why Caesar is more preferable platform then Artilleries used by the French

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

U expect Chinooks to airlift these platforms - bro artilleries are in hundreds . How many of them will you airlift!?
Forget that after airlifting then u have to have another transport to drop it.

Simply use the MGS and deploy .....no need to worry about their mobility atleast .

There is a reason why Caesar is more preferable platform then Artilleries used by the French

India has other requirements for mountainous areas. We need lightweight stuff that is why we purchased American M777. During war, roads are the first to be destroyed. And mountain roads are very very vulnerable, as a landslide can easily make them inoperable. Using chinooks we can deploy them in few hours, rather than days.
Indian army knows its requirements.

French have different requiurements, and caesar artillery matches them well. I am not saying that we dont need truck mounted howitzer, we have huge border, part of which is desert, mountains and plains. we have variety of requirement.

 

[bonito]

Shoot and scoot is overrated. If you look at ukraine, the number 1 threat to artillery is from loitering amunitions and drones, and jets if you have PGM for them. And towed artillery is just as vulnerable to them than SPG and Truck mounted artillery. You can see videos of truck mounted and self propelled artillery being destroyed by drones and LM. On oryx ypu c an see that ukraine has lost more SPG and truck mounted systems than towed artillery.

Ukraine war cannot be taken for any case study. All the highly decorated arms has failed. Even the low rated jugad engineered drones has failed. There is not a single weapon which has been used and failed from both sides. There is always a counter weapon for any weapon.

 

[Sandeep]

Ukraine has received a large number of artillery systems from western countries.

Also, i have seen videos of ukraine using self propelled and truck mounted artillery as static artillery(put in hole in the ground and covered with camoflage).

Being in open for any kind of artillery means death.
You can find videos of truck mounted artillery being destroyed by drones while it was moving.

In fact on oryx website, you can see that ukraine has lost much more number of truck mounted and self propelled artillery than static artillery. This shows that moving around in open makes you more vulnerable in today's battlefield.

Ukraine received a number of artillery guns from the west which was supposed to be used to help the Ukrainian counter offensive attack mission last year against Russia but most of the artillery guns, tanks, SAM, MBRL etc have been destroyed, damaged or in need of urgent repairs which they lack the knowledge or parts so they are now only using them for defensive purposes to defend their current positions to prevent the Russians from gaining ground or any advantage. Also whether a static or mounted artillery gun is better or not depends on a lot of things such as terrain, adequate and safe supply lines, hidden with camouflage or with natural environment materials, weather conditions etc along with the enemy’s own equipment, weapons and technology, troops, tactics and whether you can defeat it or not makes a big difference so it’s not just down to the artillery capabilities and the type used.

Also Ukraine has made some significant hits on Russian forces but not enough to make much of a difference on the front line because Russia is churning out its military industry and factories whereas Ukraine can’t. Ukraine is now heavily reliant on the west to provide it critical advanced technology and ammunition like SAM, counter drone equipment, ammunition for bullets, shells, MBRL, loiter drones, kamikaze drones etc. At best Ukraine can only defend and hope

 

[kumar]

The military are going to buy at least 300 ATAGS as it currently is which is slightly heavier and they can just buy more powerful trucks to tow the gun anyway. While manufacturing that first batch they will work and try to develop a lighter version as the ATAGS MK2 and they can buy those guns or any other Indian developed gun from the government or private sector that meet their requirements.

Unless Adani atmos is given an opportunity.

 

[Sandeep]

Unless Adani atmos is given an opportunity.

Currently 300 ATAGS is going to be ordered based on the current version it is. After that then DRDO with TATA or another private company can work on developing a lighter version of the ATAGS without impacting or reducing any current advantages the gun has right now like its long range and shoot and scoot capability.

While they are making those guns then there are already many Indian companies like TATA, Kalyani and MAHINDRA who have already developed different types of guns, calibre, range and advanced technology. Those guns have been 100% indigenously designed, developed and manufactured in India completely without using any foreign parts, components and technology. Also there are many Indian companies who will make a deal with a foreign company and simply make it in India but it won’t be 100% indigenously developed or manufactured in India at all like the Adani-Israeli gun ATHOS will only have about 70% of indigenous parts, components and technology with the rest of it having to be imported from that Israeli company.

In those circumstances then the preferred contract will go with the gun and company who will make 100% of the gun in India without using any foreign design, parts or technology. So whether it’s Kalyani or TATA whoever charges the lowest price will win the contract instead of an Indian company making a foreign gun in India. So that’s what will happen in the future artillery procurement contracts currently and in future.

The days of the corrupt jihadi party are over who just imported foreign expensive weapons and technology who accepted crore of bribes. They are the biggest misfortune of India who neglected our own military industry and prevented researching and developing new weapons and technologies.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

Ukraine war cannot be taken for any case study. All the highly decorated arms has failed. Even the low rated jugad engineered drones has failed. There is not a single weapon which has been used and failed from both sides. There is always a counter weapon for any weapon.

It should be studies no matter what. If you want to study another war, look at at armenia and azerbaijan war. That is another great example of modern war between peer aopponents

 

[Prashu Sam]

Currently 300 ATAGS is going to be ordered based on the current version it is. After that then DRDO with TATA or another private company can work on developing a lighter version of the ATAGS without impacting or reducing any current advantages the gun has right now like its long range and shoot and scoot capability.

While they are making those guns then there are already many Indian companies like TATA, Kalyani and MAHINDRA who have already developed different types of guns, calibre, range and advanced technology. Those guns have been 100% indigenously designed, developed and manufactured in India completely without using any foreign parts, components and technology. Also there are many Indian companies who will make a deal with a foreign company and simply make it in India but it won’t be 100% indigenously developed or manufactured in India at all like the Adani-Israeli gun ATHOS will only have about 70% of indigenous parts, components and technology with the rest of it having to be imported from that Israeli company.

In those circumstances then the preferred contract will go with the gun and company who will make 100% of the gun in India without using any foreign design, parts or technology. So whether it’s Kalyani or TATA whoever charges the lowest price will win the contract instead of an Indian company making a foreign gun in India. So that’s what will happen in the future artillery procurement contracts currently and in future.

The days of the corrupt jihadi party are over who just imported foreign expensive weapons and technology who accepted crore of bribes. They are the biggest misfortune of India who neglected our own military industry and prevented researching and developing new weapons and technologies.

We are hearing this BS for past 10 years and stop blaming other parties and govt for your incompetence and failures. Own your failures as you in front for taking credit for everything. K-9 vejra, ATAGS, TEJAS, NAG, DHANUSH the list not ending.

Btw this is not election forum. In general i see most commentators posts are nonpolitical, They praise good efforts and roast the corrupt organizations. I hate when someone bring politics as last resort when they run out of arguments.

 

[Axszelll]

Ukraine war cannot be taken for any case study. All the highly decorated arms has failed. Even the low rated jugad engineered drones has failed. There is not a single weapon which has been used and failed from both sides. There is always a counter weapon for any weapon.

Nah bro when I saw javelin I was really impressed and believe me those copium shields can't protect you from javelins

 

[kumar]

Currently 300 ATAGS is going to be ordered based on the current version it is. After that then DRDO with TATA or another private company can work on developing a lighter version of the ATAGS without impacting or reducing any current advantages the gun has right now like its long range and shoot and scoot capability.

While they are making those guns then there are already many Indian companies like TATA, Kalyani and MAHINDRA who have already developed different types of guns, calibre, range and advanced technology. Those guns have been 100% indigenously designed, developed and manufactured in India completely without using any foreign parts, components and technology. Also there are many Indian companies who will make a deal with a foreign company and simply make it in India but it won’t be 100% indigenously developed or manufactured in India at all like the Adani-Israeli gun ATHOS will only have about 70% of indigenous parts, components and technology with the rest of it having to be imported from that Israeli company.

In those circumstances then the preferred contract will go with the gun and company who will make 100% of the gun in India without using any foreign design, parts or technology. So whether it’s Kalyani or TATA whoever charges the lowest price will win the contract instead of an Indian company making a foreign gun in India. So that’s what will happen in the future artillery procurement contracts currently and in future.

The days of the corrupt jihadi party are over who just imported foreign expensive weapons and technology who accepted crore of bribes. They are the biggest misfortune of India who neglected our own military industry and prevented researching and developing new weapons and technologies.

I am not talking about political party but the rot that exists within the IA procurement. Their whole system is geared upto eliminate/delay indegenious weapons procurement while at the same time apply different yardstick to imports. This keeps thier gravy train running irrespective of Gov at the centre.

 

[Sunnyj]

The forces need a specialist howi like an 8´´ that fires ramjet shells, could use a 155mm too but the extra bore inches really brings out the ramjet capabilities, will be expensive though but 130-150km plus range wow.

 

[Sparkle Studio]

DRDO knew the army specifications for ATAGS when it designed it; why didn't it proceed to meet the specifications earlier. It wants to force its costomer ( army ) to compromise on its requirements. This just delays the induction of much needed armaments.