GTRE to Seek Funding for 90 kN Variant of Kaveri Engine, Aims to Replace F-404 Engines of Tejas Mk1A in Mid-Life Upgrade After 2035

The Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), the Indian defence research body responsible for developing indigenous jet engines, is aiming for a major breakthrough in India's defence capabilities.

According to a GTRE official once the Dry Kaveri engine with an afterburner section successfully completes testing on a flying testbed, GTRE will seek government funding to develop a more powerful 90 kN variant of the Kaveri engine. This enhanced engine is intended to replace the F-404 engines currently powering the Tejas Mk1A fighter jets within the next decade.

The primary goal of this development is to create a new generation of Kaveri engines capable of generating 20-25% more thrust than the existing Dry Kaveri engine. This increased power will be achieved by refining the core of the Kaveri engine, which is currently under development.

Once validated, this enhanced core will be integrated with a new afterburner section, enabling the engine to produce 90 kN of thrust, making it a suitable replacement for the F-404 engines in the Tejas Mk1A fleet.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) plans to induct over 220 Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A jets over the next 7-8 years. The new Kaveri engine is intended to replace the F-404 engines as these jets undergo mid-life upgrades by 2035, well within the projected service life of the aircraft.

The Tejas Mk1A, slated to enter service in 2025, is expected to require new engines by 2035 to maintain operational efficiency. Fighter jets typically undergo approximately 3.5 engine changes over their 40-year service life, and the Tejas Mk1A will be no exception. GTRE aims to have its new Kaveri engine ready for this transition, ensuring long-term sustainability for India's indigenous fighter fleet.

The proposed Kaveri engine would not only provide increased power but also offer better performance in demanding conditions. Unlike the F-404 engines, which experience a 7-8% power degradation in hot conditions, the Kaveri engine is designed to be flat-rated, maintaining its thrust capabilities even in extreme heat and high-altitude environments typical of India's operational needs.

The proposed Kaveri 90 kN engine is expected to be a significant boost for the Tejas Mk1A program. By replacing the F-404 engines during the mid-life upgrade of these fighter jets, it will help keep them operational for several decades.

As the IAF plans to induct a large number of Tejas jets, having a domestically developed, reliable, and powerful engine will be crucial to the long-term success of the Tejas program and India's pursuit of self-reliance in defence technology.

 

GTRE Nears Completion of 130kN Engine Test Facility, to Facilitate Development of Dry Kaveri and AMCA Engines Indian Navy to Commission Project 15B Destroyer 'Surat', Project 17A Frigate 'Nilgiri' and Sixth Kalvari-Class Submarine on 15 Jan

[aeroindia]

GTRE was founded in 1959. It was mandated to produce the Kaveri engine for LCA in <1985 (?). Now after 40 years, rather 50 years (2035+).they plan to replace F404 with Kaveri. Is not this too late deliver on their mandate ? Even when they do deliver the engine will have begun its obsolescence journey.

 

[MadhuGMenon]

The goverment of India should stop funding GTRE and instead encourage the private sector to involve in developing a 110kN engine and should provide financial help and a strict timeline of 5 years to deliver. Infact GOI should say Safran for TOT to some private companies with a 2000 engine order in next 20 years.

 

[Senapati]

GTRE and DRDO should complete the flight test of 50kN Dry Kaveri and 80kN Kaveri1 with afterburner.
There after Kaveri2 90 kN can be initiated.
First they should complete the work in hand.

 

[Ronin]

Hope something great happens 🤞🤞🤞.

 

[sanket]

That's what I was saying from the start. Kaveri will be fine-tuned to produce 90 kN thrust with weight reduction. All my words are going to come true. I already said every jet requires 3.5 engines in its entire lifespan, and in midlife, Kaveri is going to be replaced with the GE-404. That's the plan: 8 to 10 years to fine-tune the Kaveri engine. Second, 90 kN means a 1.8 ratio, unlike some comedians who were saying a 1.6 ratio, which falls short. It will boost the agility of the Tejas MK1A in the sky as well as its combat radius. With flat-rated tech, the Tejas MK1A will be one of the best fighter jets in its category.

 

[obiwankenubi jedi]

This is good news, the MoD need IAS officer level persons managing just the Kaveri engine project to take it to its logical next step.

the Indian aero engine has been a joke for last 40 years, this must end now.

testing in Russia is a good step in the right direction, we need data and analysis

but why can't we convert 1IL-76 to carry the testbed, won't Russia allow it, or are they demanding an amount too high for this change or do we not have the funds and knowledge /skills to do so ?

the EADS/Airbus also did the same for the A319/321 changes for the AWECS Netra 2 conversion.

we need an MTA project of our own soon , to mitigate such risks in the future

and we have several jets and engine projects to justify the cost of a test bed and must do this now, no matter what the cost with Russian help for the conversion.

we did not go with F404 local manufacturing, signalling to all stakeholders that Kaveri or an Indian engine will be used for midlife upgrade for Tejas mk1a and hopefully for the 97 additional jets too if possible

but will we be ready by then with Kaveri without external help to go to 90kn thrust, is to be seen

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Without adequate test infra in the country timelines will suffer again. Although that will not be the only reason for delays. But it can help to speed up the process.
GTRE should take up 10-15 and 30-35 KN engines for development. These engines can be used in trainers and drones. Many materials in all these engines will be similar for these engines. They will help create a large talent pool and economies of scale.

 

[Paul]

Most fighter jet engines are flat-rated, as this characteristic is crucial for their operational requirements. I'm not sure why some people are claiming that these engines are not flat-rated.

 

[P.K Senapati]

If the present Kaveri with new afterburner can give a thrust more than 80kN then it is fot for Tejas and can meet required thrust for a light combat aircraft.
Work can continue to further enhance its thrust to 85 0r 90 kN for better performance.
Need of the hour is an Indigenious engine that is reliable and can give 80kN thrust for Tejus production.

 

[siva]

They will say all this, but practically not delivered worthy till date

 

[nara]

Why dont they use two engines in one fighter aircraft? Wouldn't a 2-engine configuration meet even 6th gen figher requirements??

 

[vinod nair]

Why 90 kn only why not simultaneously develop 110, 120 and 140 kn also

 

[Sudha]

Why dont they use two engines in one fighter aircraft? Wouldn't a 2-engine configuration meet even 6th gen figher requirements??

The entire design of the plane needs to be redone for Tejas MK1A, and the operational cost, as well as maintenance, will be higher in a twin-engine plane. For 6th gen, Kaveri will not be suitable as the heat signature will be higher.

 

[Sudha]

They will say all this, but practically not delivered worthy till date

Do not worry, it will happen. Midlife kaveri will power the tejas mk1 & mk1a. Only criteria is use the advantage of the private sector for special alloys.

 

[Sudha]

That's what I was saying from the start. Kaveri will be fine-tuned to produce 90 kN thrust with weight reduction. All my words are going to come true. I already said every jet requires 3.5 engines in its entire lifespan, and in midlife, Kaveri is going to be replaced with the GE-404. That's the plan: 8 to 10 years to fine-tune the Kaveri engine. Second, 90 kN means a 1.8 ratio, unlike some comedians who were saying a 1.6 ratio, which falls short. It will boost the agility of the Tejas MK1A in the sky as well as its combat radius. With flat-rated tech, the Tejas MK1A will be one of the best fighter jets in its category.

What's with the self praise? Any complex issues? Most of us did not have any doubt about Kaveri. The question was when & will they use private sector expertise in hot core.

 

[Sudha]

Why 90 kn only why not simultaneously develop 110, 120 and 140 kn also

That also will happen while the upgrade & fine tuning goes on. Simultaneously requires "huge funds simultaneously" which isn't possible at present.

 

[Sentoki]

Why? The current dry variant with a new fan design is expected to produce 52-54KN. Together with a new Afterburner by Brahmos it is projected to produce 81KN of flat rated thrust. This is adequate to replace the F404 already considering that the 404 looses 7-8% thrust as per the article.

The next step should be to develop a new design engine to replace the F414 for MK2, TEDBF & AMCA MK1. That project has more value than trying to enhance the 404 equivalent unless a new requirement is given by IAF.

DRDO & GTRE needs to get out of the mentality of "better being the evil of good enough" and constantly working on never ending improvements before implementation.

If the 81KN version is good enough, get it certified ASAP and put pressure on IAF to start using them from the second 97 MK1A orders. Move on to more valuable gaps in our engine program like 414 replacement, Marine engine for the navy etc....

 

[sanket]

What's with the self praise? Any complex issues? Most of us did not have any doubt about Kaveri. The question was when & will they use private sector expertise in hot core.

Definitely, they will use private sector expertise (private players are handy/have a role in manufacturing certain critical components) under the guidance (design/development/innovation) of GTRE, BrahMos Aerospace & other DPSUs. Self-praise requires some fools. Comedians always talk negatively and always talk in the air. Some comedians vanish whenever good development happens. It is easy to criticize but difficult to perform. Aero-jet engine development is one of the most complex & critical technologies to be developed indigenously (without foreign involvement). GTRE is doing this with peanuts for funds, a lack of testing facilities, flying test beds, and a well-developed ecosystem without a strong industrial base. But some comedians never miss an opportunity to entertain the forum, but now they can have "Chai Samosa" by the time even China has not mastered engine tech yet. Most importantly, again I say Kaveri will generate over 50 kN to 54 kN thrust in Russia's high-altitude test, which is going to be tested for the dry variant of Kaveri. That shows full confidence in GTRE's capability. Japan, South Korea & the European country Sweden, too, are unable to develop their own engines to date on their own & some comedians suggest Bharat should join the KF-21 project, this project, that project, which is not even a true 4.5 gen on their own, taking other countries' help instead of developing certain features/tech. It's a real comedy.

 

[DNA57]

A successful Kaveri engine will satisfy India's all objectives...it will be a huge leap crossing so many hurdles. So India should leave no stone unturned.

 

[SK]

This is a good news & Indian-Govt should invest in it.

Indian-Govt should put Kaveri-Engine project under the direct supervision of PMO as this Project holds the key to India's Aerospace & Naval independence in the future.

 

[Mango_Indian]

Everything good related to GTRE, HAL and ADA is IN FUTURE. No production commitments, no penalties for not delivering, no firing, no degradation to benefits.

Rather than telling our next gen to study, all of us should explore how we can get a backward caste certificate and get a job at GTRE, HAL, ADA, DRDO or any other Govt Defence Undertaking. Pure UTOPIA and meal ticket for life.

 

[Sandeep]

No matter what India needs to design and develop a brand new clean sheet Kaveri engine. The current engine isn’t sufficient enough to produce the amount of thrust that’s needed and the only way to do that is by developing a new core.

With advancements in knowledge, technology, education, infrastructure and test facility to we should be able to succeed. It’s also important to use the help of the private sector and their knowledge.

 

[मित्र]

Most fighter jet engines are flat-rated, as this characteristic is crucial for their operational requirements. I'm not sure why some people are claiming that these engines are not flat-rated.

404 is not flat rated, kaveri will be.

 

[Paul]

404 is not flat rated, kaveri will be.

How do you know is the question? Just because other are saying? Do you think GE is not smart enough to understand the advantage of flat rated engines?

 

[Raja Raja Cholan]

First of all, have a plan and forecast and work towards that goal. Request adequate funds to support your project by convincing the GoI with your proposals and timeline. In defence sector projects, private sector participation with adequate funds will yield better products, provided the organisations have the right expertise. Otherwise, it will be another merry-go-round with repeated changes in the timeline.

 

[Capt Mahendra]

The goverment of India should stop funding GTRE and instead encourage the private sector to involve in developing a 110kN engine and should provide financial help and a strict timeline of 5 years to deliver. Infact GOI should say Safran for TOT to some private companies with a 2000 engine order in next 20 years.

I agree with this and sure government of India should seriously now change their approach on these lines with our TATA and Godrej already into aeronautical manufacturing. All they need is government nod and incentives not even the major funding as the company's are capable of managing it with their impeccable track record and capabilities.

 

[T54]

This is good news, the MoD need IAS officer level persons managing just the Kaveri engine project to take it to its logical next step.

the Indian aero engine has been a joke for last 40 years, this must end now.

testing in Russia is a good step in the right direction, we need data and analysis

but why can't we convert 1IL-76 to carry the testbed, won't Russia allow it, or are they demanding an amount too high for this change or do we not have the funds and knowledge /skills to do so ?

the EADS/Airbus also did the same for the A319/321 changes for the AWECS Netra 2 conversion.

we need an MTA project of our own soon , to mitigate such risks in the future

and we have several jets and engine projects to justify the cost of a test bed and must do this now, no matter what the cost with Russian help for the conversion.

we did not go with F404 local manufacturing, signalling to all stakeholders that Kaveri or an Indian engine will be used for midlife upgrade for Tejas mk1a and hopefully for the 97 additional jets too if possible

but will we be ready by then with Kaveri without external help to go to 90kn thrust, is to be seen

The General list IAS is neither qualified nor competent to oversee and head Engine programmes . They are the most useless tribe who delay deny and work for foreign interests

 

[sandy 007]

That's what I was saying from the start. Kaveri will be fine-tuned to produce 90 kN thrust with weight reduction. All my words are going to come true. I already said every jet requires 3.5 engines in its entire lifespan, and in midlife, Kaveri is going to be replaced with the GE-404. That's the plan: 8 to 10 years to fine-tune the Kaveri engine. Second, 90 kN means a 1.8 ratio, unlike some comedians who were saying a 1.6 ratio, which falls short. It will boost the agility of the Tejas MK1A in the sky as well as its combat radius. With flat-rated tech, the Tejas MK1A will be one of the best fighter jets in its category.

The problem with our system is that GTRE & DRDO normally make 5 to 7 engines for testing, but they don't make different engines from the same funding ("lakir ka fakir" in Hindi). Secondly, when they get money, they should build two types of engines: one with a 60 KN dry variant and a second with a 75 KN dry variant, totaling 8 (4 each). This will boost our engine program.

 

[Sreedhar Radhakrishna]

That's what I was saying from the start. Kaveri will be fine-tuned to produce 90 kN thrust with weight reduction. All my words are going to come true. I already said every jet requires 3.5 engines in its entire lifespan, and in midlife, Kaveri is going to be replaced with the GE-404. That's the plan: 8 to 10 years to fine-tune the Kaveri engine. Second, 90 kN means a 1.8 ratio, unlike some comedians who were saying a 1.6 ratio, which falls short. It will boost the agility of the Tejas MK1A in the sky as well as its combat radius. With flat-rated tech, the Tejas MK1A will be one of the best fighter jets in its category.

That is indirectly saying they will need another 10 years to complete the 80kN Kaveri. So, in total, it will be 45 years of development and already 2000 crore rupees spent. I don't know how much more money will be needed. Even if money is spent, is there any guarantee they will succeed? GTRE is a pathetic failure and put the entire project of the Tejas Mk1 in danger, as the USA might stop delivery of the F404 engine. Any answer from GTRE about how we will take the project forward if GE walks out of its commitment?