HAL Seeks to Extend HS 748 Avro's Lifespan with Upgrade Proposal, But IAF Opts for Airbus C295 as Replacement

A disagreement has arisen between Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and the Indian Air Force (IAF) over the fate of the aging Hawker Siddeley HS 748 Avro turboprop transport aircraft.

While HAL is keen to modernize the Avro fleet and extend its operational life by two decades, the IAF has opted for the Airbus C295 as its replacement and remains unconvinced by HAL's upgrade proposal.

The IAF's decision to phase out the Avro stems primarily from its technological obsolescence. However, HAL argues that the aircraft, particularly the later Series 2M models, have significant airframe life remaining, having utilized only about 30% of their intended lifespan. HAL emphasizes that the Avro was originally designed for the demanding airline industry, suggesting a robust and durable airframe.

A key factor contributing to the Avro's limited utilization within the IAF is its primary role: troop and VVIP transport. The lack of a rear ramp door has restricted its utility as a logistical transport aircraft, a role fulfilled by other aircraft like the An-32 and the incoming C295.

HAL has proposed a comprehensive upgrade program for the Avro, including new turboprop engines with FADEC systems and a modernized cockpit with advanced avionics and electronics. This modernization aims to address the IAF's concerns about technological obsolescence. HAL plans to upgrade its own Avro aircraft as a demonstration platform to showcase the feasibility of its proposal.

Despite these proposed upgrades, the IAF remains unconvinced. Even with modernization, the Avro's utility remains limited to troop and VVIP transport due to the absence of a rear ramp. This limitation prevents the aircraft from fulfilling the logistical transport role crucial for modern air forces, a capability readily offered by the C295.

The HS 748 Avro has served as a technology demonstrator in the past, acting as a testbed for LCA Tejas avionics and for an indigenous airborne early warning aircraft. However, a 1999 crash of the AWACS testbed, which resulted in the loss of eight scientists and aircrew, has raised concerns about the platform's suitability for such critical roles.

The current situation presents a challenge for HAL. To save the Avro fleet from retirement, HAL needs to identify new, compelling roles for the upgraded aircraft that align with the IAF's operational needs.

Without a clear and convincing mission profile, the Avro is likely to be phased out as planned, despite HAL's efforts to extend its service life. A serious reassessment is required to determine whether the Avro can find a renewed purpose within the Indian military or if its long service has finally come to an end.

 

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[ronaldc]

HAL needs to focus on delivering Tejas MK1A and MK2 series on time - stop working on a dead horse aircraft to feed its own tummy. HAL needs to be broken into multiple divisions and sold to private enterprises such as TATAs and L&T.

 

[jith hegde]

Can the HAL show it's capabilities by redesigning the Airframe with the rear Ramp door?
What has HAL done all these years not able to offer the minimum basic requirements of the IAF?

 

[swatkats_razor]

Imagine Lockheed Martin suggesting the USAF they do not need a new aircraft and should continue modernizing the F-16.

We would have never seen the F-22 and F-35 happen.

HAL is an "azoobaa"!!!HAL's staff do not want to work at all and prefer to subsist on taxpayers' charity. Rather than working and developing a new platform, which will require HAL's workers to move their lazy bums, they have come up with an excuse to continue working sleepily on a 50-year-old aircraft with sufficient time to indulge in chai-samosa-gup-shup in between their 11 to 4 jobs.

 

[Apocalypse gupta]

How can it function as a military transport aircraft without rear ramp? Why was this plane chosen for this purpose long ago in first place? Low usage proves that it was bad idea to go for it in first place. Troop transport can be done with any aircraft with seats.

 

[Anant]

Depends on the state of the An-32 fleet to an extent. MTA seems to be set for delays, so if one looks purely at troop transport, there may be merit in retaining some of the HS-748s that are in best shape if the older An-32s are coming up for retirement.

That said, however, if this isn't the case, then we need to let the HS-748 gracefully fly into the sunset. Put up a few dozen of them as museums (we have 56), keep a few in reserve if need be, and please do not get another MiG-21 saga.

Oh, and HAL would be better-off focusing on Tejas production rather than trying to market an HS-748 upgrade program. Let the IAF look at all facts, and then decide.

 

[AK S]

HAL is an "azoobaa"!!!HAL's staff do not want to work at all and prefer to subsist on taxpayers' charity. Rather than working and developing a new platform, which will require HAL's workers to move their lazy bums, they have come up with an excuse to continue working sleepily on a 50-year-old aircraft with sufficient time to indulge in chai-samosa-gup-shup in between their 11 to 4 jobs.

The proposal is in competition with TASL-Airbus C295.

 

[AK S]

How can it function as a military transport aircraft without rear ramp? Why was this plane chosen for this purpose long ago in first place? Low usage proves that it was bad idea to go for it in first place. Troop transport can be done with any aircraft with seats.

Series 20 were modified and a very large freight door was included. Avro was never meant for heavy equipment lifting and hence the design. It’s light weight freighter. While procuring, IAF knew what they were buying. Looks like, IAF now realises that it was a bad choice or is no longer an optimal choice in the current scenario and either way, are looking for a course correction. Fair game.

 

[Anant]

How can it function as a military transport aircraft without rear ramp? Why was this plane chosen for this purpose long ago in first place? Low usage proves that it was bad idea to go for it in first place. Troop transport can be done with any aircraft with seats.

That happened because the HS-748 is from an entirely different era. The HS-748 was purchased by many nations (including India) as a troop transport aircraft to replace aging venerable DC-3s. Back then, we had C-119s and An-12s for heavy airlift duties, and as the experience in Kashimr in 1947-48 had shown, in times of war, having the ability of move troops around quickly could prove to be key.

The thing is that since then, the realities have evolved. We have much larger aircraft in form of the Il-76 and C-17 now that can do the heavy airlift part, and newer aircraft like the C-130J and An-32 that can do both troop transport and light airlift duties. The HS 748 is still performing it's original duties, and from what I have seen, read, and heard, does those duties brilliantly well still.

 

[Anant]

Series 20 were modified and a very large freight door was included. Avro was never meant for heavy equipment lifting and hence the design. It’s light weight freighter. While procuring, IAF knew what they were buying. Looks like, IAF now realises that it was a bad choice or is no longer an optimal choice in the current scenario and either way, are looking for a course correction. Fair game.

True, but the HS-748 does have a 5.5 ton payload capacity, which means you could transport jeeps and their crews. Of course, you can't airdrop them from even the Series 20 aircraft, but they have been used for transporting light vehicles as well.

 

[Anant]

The proposal is in competition with TASL-Airbus C295.

Nope. This proposal has been around for a while, and is in competition with the planned-but-stalled upgrades of the An-32 fleet. We have about 105 An-32s, of which 35 have been upgraded, and a further 60 are planned to be upgraded. The last 10 airframes are not planned to be upgraded, and this proposal is put as a replacement for those airframes.

 

[Anonymus]

HAL should focus on delivering the jets and helis on time rather than giving unneccessary suggestions.

 

[Jagroshan singh]

How can it function as a military transport aircraft without rear ramp? Why was this plane chosen for this purpose long ago in first place? Low usage proves that it was bad idea to go for it in first place. Troop transport can be done with any aircraft with seats.

I didn't know till date that HS 748 don't have a rear ramp. So, it is basically more or less a passenger aircraft with military paint.

 

[ramdas]

HAL should concentrate on the AMCA, Tejas LCA MK1A, and MKII, as well as the LCH and LUH. Instead of refurbishing outdated equipment, which is where they seem to excel, they attempted to sabotage C295 but were unsuccessful. Now, they are trying to disrupt the upcoming purchases intended to replace the AN-32 aircraft.

 

[Dredd]

Depends on the state of the An-32 fleet to an extent. MTA seems to be set for delays, so if one looks purely at troop transport, there may be merit in retaining some of the HS-748s that are in best shape if the older An-32s are coming up for retirement.

That said, however, if this isn't the case, then we need to let the HS-748 gracefully fly into the sunset. Put up a few dozen of them as museums (we have 56), keep a few in reserve if need be, and please do not get another MiG-21 saga.

Oh, and HAL would be better-off focusing on Tejas production rather than trying to market an HS-748 upgrade program. Let the IAF look at all facts, and then decide.

If HAL is so confident on its capability then HAL should buy back these hawkers, upgrade them and offer them to African and smaller countries, let see if they can sell this product to others.

 

[Sandeep]

India can still continue to use these passenger planes for as long as possible for troop movements or to transport civil passengers until they reach the retirement age or if there is any technical faults or problems.

For the other 20 planes that have a ramp door then we can continue to use it to transport cargo, supplies or goods regardless of how old the technology and equipment is.

We should also give them to the BSF, coast guards etc who can make use of these planes as they need to develop their own but no upgrades should be made. We should use what we can develop and manufacture in such a short time period.

 

[Steel Mathi]

If HAL is so confident on its capability then HAL should buy back these hawkers, upgrade them and offer them to African and smaller countries, let see if they can sell this product to others.

No way... We will sell only to the Indian government... There are lakhs of workers relying on HAL... This project must be carried out for HAL's workers... Otherwise, the workers' unions will protest.

 

[Steel Mathi]

We will sell only to the Indian government... There are lakhs of workers relying on HAL... This project must be carried out for HAL's workers... Otherwise, the workers' unions will protest...

Very soon... HAL has a plan to upgrade the MiG 21 aircraft