How India's Su-30MKI Struggles Under Strict Russian Restrictions While China Freely Used Reverse Engineering to Develop J11 and J-16

India's reliance on Russian technology for its Su-30MKI fighter jet fleet has exposed a significant contrast in military technology independence compared to China. While India faces strict limitations on modifying its aircraft due to Russian oversight, China has successfully reverse-engineered and upgraded similar Russian jets with domestically developed technology.

India, a long-standing partner of Russia in defence procurement, operates one of the largest Su-30MKI fleets outside of Russia. However, modifying these aircraft, even for minor adjustments, requires Russian approval to maintain warranty and support agreements. This restriction stems from the original technology transfer agreements, which granted India the license to manufacture the jets but included stringent clauses on alterations.

Unauthorized modifications could void the warranty, potentially leading to maintenance and upgrade challenges. India's dependence on Russia for spare parts further complicates the situation, as any unauthorized changes could disrupt the supply chain. Additionally, Russia's technical support, essential for complex systems like avionics and engines, might be withdrawn if modifications are made without consent.

This dependency has become a point of concern, particularly as India aims to increase indigenous content in its defence systems. Although the Su-30MKI is assembled in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), it still relies heavily on Russian components, including the AL-31FP engines, which are subject to strict Russian control for maintenance and upgrades.

In stark contrast, China adopted a different approach with the Su-27/30 series, the same family of aircraft from which the Su-30MKI originates. China not only reverse-engineered the Su-27 but also developed its own advanced derivatives, the J-11 and J-16. By replacing Russian components with indigenous technology, such as engines, radars, and avionics, China has achieved a high degree of self-reliance in this area.

This self-sufficiency allows China to bypass Russian oversight and reduce its dependence on foreign technology. With complete control over the technology, China can now offer these jets on the international market, competing directly with Russian models.

China's autonomy in this domain provides a strategic advantage, enabling them to customize aircraft to their specific operational needs and potentially export these technologies. India, on the other hand, has been more cautious in this regard due to its international alliances and obligations.

India has been engaged in discussions with Russia to gain more freedom in modifying its aircraft, but progress has been slow due to geopolitical factors and the complexities of defence contracts.

The contrasting approaches of India and China to the Su-30 series highlight the critical importance of technological sovereignty in defence strategy. While India navigates the limitations of its agreements, the focus on increasing indigenization in its military capabilities continues to grow, aiming to reduce such dependencies in the future.

 

[AJS]

Isn’t it the case that, if India wanted to, then it too could have reverse engineered the aircraft? Agreements with the Russians, I suppose, apply to the aircraft they have supplied or licensed to be built in India, not to anything India itself develops (including based on reverse engineering.But then reverse engineering would be seen as bad faith and India doesn’t want to damage its reputation and its relationship with Russia… not that such considerations have stopped the Chinese.

 

[M S Chatterji]

China's approach, while controversial, has yielded results. India needs to learn from this and adapt its own strategies.

 

[Baiju Bhaskaran]

Our approach is the right way. But it is high time that HAL starts taking responsibility for the upgrades and modifications and start providing it's own warranty instead of depending on Russians.

 

[CCPSmasher]

Russian platforms are dead giveaways to China. China has already reverse-engineered most of the Russian materiel and moved on to better stuff now. They are way ahead of Russia in most defence technologies now. It'd be utter suicide for India to keep relying on Russian junk going forward. We need a whole lot of reforms in our PSUs, heavy private and startup participation, and heavy R&D investment. Also, take the most advantage out of QUAD and the US in particular for foreseeable future acquisitions if we have to prevail over China and their minions around Asia.

 

[sanket]

What about firing to date from Brahmos, Rudram Astra Series & other weapons which were tested? Without the help of Russia. For modification & integration of Brahmos Missile, Russia was asking a heavy fee, while HAL has done it in peanuts. What about the Super Sukhoi project which is being implemented without Russian help?

 

[BORN FIGHTER]

Completely bogus article. India has also made many changes to SU-30 with indigenous radar, avionics, missiles.

 

[Sanatani Yodha]

Reverse engineering is not so simple… it takes years-long efforts and our DPSUs with reservation staff can’t do that much hard work!! So they hide their inefficiencies in the name of “agreement” with Russia, and to malign Reverse Engineering, they call it “Chori” i.e. theft…. But the question is, what advantages did India get by license manufacturing Su30mki i.e. basically assembling Knock down kits delivered by Russia and eventually spending more money/Su30mki on desi assembly v/s off-the-shelf purchase???

 

[P.K Senapati]

Nobody stops India from indigenizing and improving its autonomy over Su-30 aircraft and AL-31FP engines.

We should have our domestic technology and expertise to replace Russians.

We should also take responsibility for our decisions.

 

[DB_NE_Guy]

We can't blame anyone but ourselves. Don't expect other nation to treat us with golden spoon.

 

[Bhishma]

Russian platforms are dead giveaways to China. China has already reverse-engineered most of the Russian materiel and moved on to better stuff now. They are way ahead of Russia in most defence technologies now. It'd be utter suicide for India to keep relying on Russian junk going forward. We need a whole lot of reforms in our PSUs, heavy private and startup participation, and heavy R&D investment. Also, take the most advantage out of QUAD and the US in particular for foreseeable future acquisitions if we have to prevail over China and their minions around Asia.

IMO US will be a bigger threat than China in the coming years. Various factors have gone in, China has decided to restrict itself only to proxy warfare now. Their pearls is a failed project. Not a good idea to keep buying the American junk. US wants to turn us into their Ukraine. Seriously wtf is Quad. US can only do proxy warfare. Japan has no army of their own. Australia is another toothless proxy. That leaves India to do all the dirty work. It will be masterstroke for them. Pit India against China, sabotage them both.

Remember WW2? Indians did the bulk of the work, nobody even remembers India's contribution. US just entered in the last phase, in the European theatre worked with allied soldiers. In Japan theatre, overwhelmed with technology, developed by German Jews. And claimed all the credit.

 

[Bhishma]

Completely bogus article. India has also made many changes to SU-30 with indigenous radar, avionics, missiles.

Yeah, got me wondering too. I was under the impression that Russians give the most freedom for mods. We also replaced the mission computer with our own giving us the ability to integrate with any weapons we want.

 

[Oleg Olkha]

We have jointly implemented projects and look forward to further. Еngines are the foundations of our world. Regards...

 

[Bhishma]

Dont look at China, they are wrong role models for us.

Start with ground up development. That means creating the research labs, industry/academic collaborations, private participations etc. Do only minimal "reverse engineering" - Here by reverse engineering, I mean, corporate espionage, honey trapping, resource poaching, hiring ex-competitors, selectively breaking down components & studying it. Not a 1-to-1 copy that China does. This will breed bad culture. Forever relying on others to come up with design, espionage to get the original and then reverse engineering. Which means you will always be one step behind.

We already have all of these in place. We just need to optimize it. Create private-public ownership, something like Brahmos Aerospace. This shows the model how Indian govt owned organization can collaborate with another external organization.

Good lesson from China is, follow their project management model. They are doing it right. ie iterative, fast-to-market, fail fast model. This is the right way to do. They are merely applying their expertise from consumer manufacturing to defense manufacturing. Incorporate that.

 

[Mohitm]

Our maximum part of defence budget goes for paying salaries, pensions etc. We sincerely need more budget for more reforms, R&D set ups if we have to stay in the race. After all, we are now 3rd largest economy, we have to become smarter, agile and powerful and to prove our metal. Jai hind.

 

[BORN FIGHTER]

Yeah, got me wondering too. I was under the impression that Russians give the most freedom for mods. We also replaced the mission computer with our own giving us the ability to integrate with any weapons we want.

In reality, Indian SU 30 mki is the most modified Soviet and Russian origin fighter ever made. It has components and avionics from around the world including Indian, French, Swedish, German, Spanish and Russian and not to forget the Israeli made HMD and other things which are actually American made and rebatched as Israeli made. Infact Russian were so mesmerized with Indian made SU 30 mki that their SU 35 and SU 57 are based on Indian SU 30 mki.

 

[SURESH RAO]

HAL has made plenty of changes and indigenization in avionics, software, middleware, missiles, etc. Even the AL 31 engine has been modified.

 

[obiwankenubi jedi]

That was why India went to US for the F404 engine in the first place !

and went for the 36 Rafale and the MMRCA/ MRFA !

yes but after the nuclear tests in the 90s and the sanctions that followed, only Russia continued to supply weapons, nuclear reactors and space technology to India

 

[Arin Kumar]

This is the result of many shortcomings of Indians compared to the Chinese:

1. Lack of boldness to take risks on the part of DRDO
2. Lack of boldness to take risks on the part of IAF
3. Underfunding of HAL
4. Non-existent competition to HAL
5. Poor scientific and technological knowledge base due to lack of investment in material science and aeronautical and allied branches of engineering
6. Insufficient integrated testing infrastructure
7. Poor/Non-existent interest in precision engineering
8. Most importantly - lack of interest from political leadership
9. No interest among the general public about flying - other countries have flying clubs, India has ZERO flying clubs - maybe some for the ultra-wealthy. This is because of a lack of boldness and adventurism among the general public towards flying/skydiving/deep-sea diving/space travel.

 

[Hari Sud]

Remember that reverse engineering is an approximate science and that is why Chinese products are second class.

 

[MSN]

It is a myth that China reverse-engineered Russian jet engines. China has far more limitations in indigenous technology development due to its focus on reverse engineering technology development since the 1960s.

 

[Harsh]

Don't understand what you are b**ching about. Russian, US, French and English all have the same constraints; you modify, you void the warranty. What is wrong with that? China did reverse engineering but is not begging Russia for technical support, except on commercial terms. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Grow up!

 

[nivas9531]

Reverse engineering is not so simple… it takes years-long efforts and our DPSUs with reservation staff can’t do that much hard work!! So they hide their inefficiencies in the name of “agreement” with Russia, and to malign Reverse Engineering, they call it “Chori” i.e. theft…. But the question is, what advantages did India get by license manufacturing Su30mki i.e. basically assembling Knock down kits delivered by Russia and eventually spending more money/Su30mki on desi assembly v/s off-the-shelf purchase???

What kind of foolery that Indian diffence organisations done the modifications those are no normal. The only sukhoy that is having canards in india there is no where in the world even in Russia, also re engineered with engine components which is increase engine life 1000s of hours. Integrated Indian radar virupaksha AESA advanced radar, also astra mk-1&2 and many more missiles like rudram,brahmos this not happened in China our sukhoi,s are more superior than Chinese and Russian variants
And now india increased the power of Al-31 engine to most fuel efficient and power.
The same engine now using our new fighter jet hf-41 trainer, and fighter with 112kn engine
India honour IP Rights. Unlike china.
Chinese engineers illegally lifted US ,and Russian technology like thieves without any shame.
That's why no country buy their fighter jets
From china, that's why china build along with Pakistan jf-17 atleast some body can buy it
Please go the facts, instead using loose comments

 

[Sandeep]

This is the result of many shortcomings of Indians compared to the Chinese:

1. Lack of boldness to take risks on the part of DRDO
2. Lack of boldness to take risks on the part of IAF
3. Underfunding of HAL
4. Non-existent competition to HAL
5. Poor scientific and technological knowledge base due to lack of investment in material science and aeronautical and allied branches of engineering
6. Insufficient integrated testing infrastructure
7. Poor/Non-existent interest in precision engineering
8. Most importantly - lack of interest from political leadership
9. No interest among the general public about flying - other countries have flying clubs, India has ZERO flying clubs - maybe some for the ultra-wealthy. This is because of a lack of boldness and adventurism among the general public towards flying/skydiving/deep-sea diving/space travel.

You’re factually wrong on most accounts. Boldness has to be measured by what DRDO or HAL are allowed to do. As for HAL they have received plenty of funds and orders but they have not increased their productivity, efficiency and have just taken a laid back approach in manufacturing and indigenisation. We have some very competent and clever people in DRDO but they are restrained with budgets and permissions for any new project they want to make. We have some very advanced knowledge and education on materials and metallurgy in theory but poor skills in factually making it. Also we were quite early on using more composites in jets or planes when others weren’t. Also we have enough test facilities except for a simulated high altitude test facility but lack a flying test bed but our engine never passed any tests which would make it safe to install on a flying plane.

Also we made a contract with Russia which has clear terms and conditions on what we can do and what we can’t. So DRDO have to comply with what we signed and agreed on what we can manufacture and how much. It’s the same with politicians as they try to get the best deal that they can. Also there are a few flying clubs in India but they are small.

 

[Sandeep]

The big difference is that India strictly abides by the agreements that they have made with Russia. Obviously China has just made illegal copies of the Sukhoi 30 jet by ignoring any agreements made by them to Russia.

India could have made the same decision and break intellectual property rights and face military repercussions by refusing to sell us some weapons and equipment or sanctions etc. That is why Russia would lease a nuclear submarine to us but will never give it to China.