IAF to Equip 84 Su-30MKI with AMCA-Derived Near Fifth-Gen Capabilities under 2nd Phase of 'Super Sukhoi' Program

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is set to launch a major modernization program for its Su-30MKI fighter fleet, known as the 'Super Sukhoi' program. This ambitious initiative, undertaken in collaboration with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), aims to upgrade 84 Su-30MKI aircraft with advanced technologies, bringing them closer to fifth-generation capabilities.

The program will be executed in two phases. The first phase will focus on upgrading 84 Su-30MKIs with technologies derived from the Tejas Mk1A and MkII programs. This will include integrating advanced avionics, a new AESA radar, enhanced electronic warfare systems, and improved weapons integration. These upgrades will significantly enhance the aircraft's situational awareness, targeting capabilities, and survivability.

The second phase, anticipated around 2030, will involve upgrading another 84 Su-30MKIs with cutting-edge technologies from India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program. This will include next-generation avionics, advanced sensors, data fusion capabilities, and potential stealth-adjacent features. This phase aims to further enhance the aircraft's performance and ensure its relevance in a rapidly evolving battlefield.

The AMCA program, India's indigenous fifth-generation fighter initiative, will serve as a critical technology source for the Super Sukhoi project. Key advancements from AMCA, such as advanced mission computers, a next-generation electronic warfare suite, and new cockpit displays, are expected to be adapted for the Su-30MKI upgrades.

With 270 Su-30MKIs currently in service, the IAF operates one of the largest fleets outside of Russia. However, with plans to retire older aircraft from 2035 onwards, the Super Sukhoi program is crucial for maintaining the fleet's combat effectiveness and ensuring its alignment with the IAF's future operational requirements. The program's phased approach allows for the gradual incorporation of advanced technologies, keeping the Su-30MKI relevant and potent until at least 2060.

 

[sanket]

Upgrading Su-30 MKI in two batches will help. Also, if the IAF considers HAL's recent offer of 72 Su-30s in Super Sukhoi configuration by 2030, the IAF will get 240 Super Sukhois in the long term rather than 84+84=168 Super Sukhois by 2060. Plus, the IAF should consider an engine upgrade. Instead of the AL-31, the IAF should consider an AL-51 derivative for all those Super Sukhoi upgrades.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

So first 84 upgraded SU30 MKIs will have GaAS based uttam.

 

[Shiva]

This is really a best approach to mitigate strategic independence to Indian needs.

This is a good time to increase the stockpile of Russian kits for the AL-31FP engine. Because this is the only imported component. We can safely give a bulk order so that it is attractive for the component manufacturer of the Russian company to an extent that they can produce it within India in some underground secret space for future war readiness. The Russian Government may allow it because it is also good for Russia, in case of war, if their own company is destroyed and they need those critical components then they can also order them from the underground facility. Anyhow, it is their own company, so it won't create any hurdles.

In my view, giving 5000 kits with a repeat order assurance of an additional 5000 kits is good. Also, need to order an additional similar 5000 kits related to AL-53FP with the assurance of an additional 5000 kits.

Why I am saying this is, we can modify the engine or final product by making design changes and come up with better products and it continues. This is a pure indigenous trend and we can simply stop thinking about importing aircraft and instead, we can focus on exporting aircraft and also increase the stockpile.

If China is superior in naval capacity then we can make an edge by bulk producing aircraft once our dependence on imports is rectified by bulk purchasing and stockpiling critical components.

Anyhow, now, we are about to have a UPI payment system or Rupee-Ruble payment system. So, giving bulk orders is the best choice to enhance our strategic capabilities.

 

[Instant Karma]

IAF urgently needs urgently more than 100 new SU 30 MKI, to meet 44 sqardron Levels.

 

[Sudha]

Always SU30 upgrade since more than 10 years. Bharatiyas aren't interested. What they are interested in is when will it happen? Will it be done after the 6th gen fighter is inducted in Bharat's IAF?

 

[Sudha]

Also, if the IAF considers HAL's recent offer of 72 Su-30s in Super Sukhoi configuration by 2030, the IAF will get 240 Super Sukhois in the long term rather than 84+84=168 Super Sukhois by 2060.

Anything sponsored by HAL should be rejected outright. See HAL's baby Mk1A stuck because of HAL's wrong decision of choosing a closed line aero engine.

 

[R. Singh]

First batch of Su-30 should be replaced by SU-57 !

 

[Harish jyala]

Su-30mki is a potent weapon in less defended airspace, specially with it's high range a2a missiles. It can easily serve iaf till 2050's if given the correct strategic enhancement which can cater specific air or ground operations.

 

[Vivek M. R]

Upgrading Su-30 MKI in two batches will help. Also, if the IAF considers HAL's recent offer of 72 Su-30s in Super Sukhoi configuration by 2030, the IAF will get 240 Super Sukhois in the long term rather than 84+84=168 Super Sukhois by 2060. Plus, the IAF should consider an engine upgrade. Instead of the AL-31, the IAF should consider an AL-51 derivative for all those Super Sukhoi upgrades.

As AL 51 will not offered as they may integrate it only with SU 57. As per information on one of the YouTube channel Russia is coming out with an engine AL31FP or AL31FN which is suitable both for sukhoi 30mki and Sukhoi 35, and is said to have better fuel efficiency and slightly more thrust. AL-41 is was offered to us. But Indians are substituting more indegious contents in AL-31 itself and making it more reliable, with better avionics, radar upgrade first batch will become better and second batch will be almost adequate for us as F-15ex with jammer pods like F18 growler, GaN fire control radar, IRST, better sensors, within our limited budget we should achieve our objective.

 

[NSR]

Since even the oldest ones will have 10 more years of life, all of them must be upgraded with modern mission computers, AESA radars, avionics, RWRs, EWs, IRSTs, etc

It is a better medicine for fast depleting squadron strengths.
So keep upgrading in blocks.

 

[Sandeep]

Always SU30 upgrade since more than 10 years. Bharatiyas aren't interested. What they are interested in is when will it happen? Will it be done after the 6th gen fighter is inducted in Bharat's IAF?

It takes a long time to develop a brand new and critical technology like the jets computer and software, radars, avionics, navigation, EW etc. For the last 10 years they have been developing the technology which is now ready to be adopted.

 

[Anant]

Since even the oldest ones will have 10 more years of life, all of them must be upgraded with modern mission computers, AESA radars, avionics, RWRs, EWs, IRSTs, etc

It is a better medicine for fast depleting squadron strengths.
So keep upgrading in blocks.

Sir, considering that the upgrade will take quite a while to perform, upgrading all of those 100-ish aircraft, given that the price tag of about 90 million USD per jet, is not cost-effective.

What we can do, however, would be to gauge each of those older airframes for condition, and then upgrade the airframes in best condition which have the longest life left.

Starting an upgrade in 2024 on an airframe due for retirement in 2035-36 makes little sense.

 

[Anant]

In my view, giving 5000 kits with a repeat order assurance of an additional 5000 kits is good. Also, need to order an additional similar 5000 kits related to AL-53FP with the assurance of an additional 5000 kits.

5000 kits order plus 5000 options? Pardon this, but are you out of your mind? A single AL-31F costs us just north of 13 million USD. Are you seriously suggesting we spend between 6.5 and 13 billion USD just on engines?

Moreover, 5000 engines against a fleet size of 271 jets (assuming the planned order of 12 is made) comes to about 18.45 engines per jet. A single Su-30MKI needs about 5-6 engines in it's lifetime. What do you want to do with the remaining 13 or so per jet?

 

[Akhil]

Anything sponsored by HAL should be rejected outright. See HAL's baby Mk1A stuck because of HAL's wrong decision of choosing a closed line aero engine.

HAL is making Tejas, Tejas1A, working on Tejas 2, AMCA, Tedbf, making Su30, working on Super Sukhoi upgrades, building Prachand, working on IHRH, trainers and so much more. No one on this forum can give me even 1 Indian private company which is doing even 10% of what HAL has in its plate. Indian defense industry is being built upon the shoulders of HAL and these people have nothing but criticism. We are doing most of these stuff for the 1st time thanks to nincompoop successive governments for 60+ years and our defense generals who want only imported maal, but some idiots will blame HAL for even the US not supplying us engines on time. Hilarious. Lol.

 

[Sandeep]

This plan appears great on paper but they need to start upgrading the jets to the Super Sukhoi variant jet which has been under development for over 10 years now. We need to make sure that HAL is able to upgrade the jets on time and as quickly as possible. Also if HAL doesn’t have the staff or facilities to upgrade the jets in large numbers and on time then they can use the private to help out.

 

[PKPRS]

IAF should consider an engine upgrade. Instead of the AL-31, the IAF should consider an AL-51 derivative for all those Super Sukhoi upgrades.

Al-51 should fit without any modifications, as all AL-31/41 and 51 all are same dimensions, but the intake requirement might be different, there is no point in installing a stealth engine on a Semi stealth jet, the stealth enhancement in Super-30 is going to offer frontal stealth only just like SU-35, so Al-41 should be good, actually AL-41 176KN with After Burner produce more power than AL-51’s 167KN thrust with After Burner, but AL-51’s TWR (Thrust to Weight Ratio) is little higher but not much, but there is nothing wrong in installing AL-51F engine if we make them locally.

 

[Shiva]

IAF should consider an engine upgrade. Instead of the AL-31, the IAF should consider an AL-51 derivative for all those Super Sukhoi upgrades.

In my view shifting towards AL-53FP is not a good choice.
We had spent too much of money on ToT of AL-31FP and also spent lot of money indigenisation of several components of AL-31FP components.

Also, now HAL has the expertise to produce many components of AL-31FP.
Most of the components of AL-53FP are very similar to AL-31FP and any additional improvements are easily reproduceable by HAL without any need of paying additional money for ToT.

So, better to look at only those components, which we are similar to the curently importing AL-31FP kit. we need a similar Russian kit related to AL-53FP.

HAL can try creating a new engine, similar to AL-53FP, using such kits. This will also enhance HAL capabilities in developer newer types of engines.

So, instead of importing entire AL-53FP engines, better to purchase only the kits.

 

[Shiva]

So first 84 upgraded SU30 MKIs will have GaAS based uttam.

These configuration changes are subjected to continuous improvements.
Our Industry will bring one or other change every 3 months or so.
So, such kind of changes is a continuous process.
No need to worry too much on those aspects

 

[Shiva]

5000 kits order plus 5000 options? Pardon this, but are you out of your mind? A single AL-31F costs us just north of 13 million USD. Are you seriously suggesting we spend between 6.5 and 13 billion USD just on engines?

Moreover, 5000 engines against a fleet size of 271 jets (assuming the planned order of 12 is made) comes to about 18.45 engines per jet. A single Su-30MKI needs about 5-6 engines in it's lifetime. What do you want to do with the remaining 13 or so per jet?

Nice question. let me reply.
The cost of kit is less than 5% of the cost of Rafael aircraft. All other cost, is purely a transfer of money among bank accounts within Indian banks so not an issue to Indian economy. Also money paid to Russia will be in INR and mostly the money is within Indan banks.

Keeping aside those kits in bulk, will pave a way, for Indigenous efforts on creating new kinds of engines and gives confidence even producing bulk produceabe engines.
There are lot many options.
During war, we require so many engines as engines often destroyed in bulk in few days. At that time, these critical componetns shortage will be there.

Pleae note that, as of now , requirements given by Indian Govt is only about 33% capacity as that of China. Using our existing strength, we can only defend when China offends, it does not mean, we are equally stronger as that of China.

having these many bulk items, paves way, for R&D on new engines, new aircrafts usign 3d printed technology and more focus on bulk production etc.
This also paves way for future export options.

So , it is a double edged advantage.

Always, bulk production makes cost very cheap and having such setup in Indian , underground facility, will make India war ready and Russia more robust under attack on it.

Also, paves way, to keep some other secrete products in same underground facilities just like how China keeps its arsenal strength secrete for strategic advantages.

 

[Shiva]

IAF urgently needs urgently more than 100 new SU 30 MKI, to meet 44 sqardron Levels.

Yes. currently India kept its goal to maintain 33% of capacity as that of China only to defend ourselves in case China offends us. Never India kept any ambition to be on par with China.
If Indian strength has to be on par with China, then we need three times the current strength.

Even though quality of Indian products are reasonably superior than China and India is technologically more stronger than China, but in quantity and bulk produceable skills, China is far far ahead of us.

But such things, we need to do, only after acquiring capabilities to bulk produce engines, not just existing tested engines but also new engines with new design changes quickly.

For this to practise, instead of purchasing complete AL-53FP engine, better to import just a kit consisting of few critical technology items similar to what imported for AL-31FP and then try designing remaining things quickly as HAL already acquired technology know-how.

Also, avaialbility of the Russian kits in bulk, paves way and flexibility for HAL scientist to expriement to come up with even new innovative products.
So, bulk order of Russian kits in thousands is more useful

 

[Shiva]

Sir, considering that the upgrade will take quite a while to perform, upgrading all of those 100-ish aircraft, given that the price tag of about 90 million USD per jet, is not cost-effective.

What we can do, however, would be to gauge each of those older airframes for condition, and then upgrade the airframes in best condition which have the longest life left.

Starting an upgrade in 2024 on an airframe due for retirement in 2035-36 makes little sense.

You are calcuating cost mathematically.

Please understand, after new reforms in Indian banking system, most of the money of Indina people, Indian organizations is there in Indian banks and never anyone can take money through cash more than a small limit.

Money from banks is taken in the name of bonds by Govt, giving to IAF, IAF giving it to HAL and then moving forward from one account to other. no effect or risk ,as all money is just circulating within Indian bank accounts.

Only the money needed for Russian imported components (the so called Russian kit) has to be paid to Russian company. That is also, we are paying in INR and most of the time it is within Indian banks. So, dealign with Russia company is more conducive for bulk order.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

It takes a long time to develop a brand new and critical technology like the jets computer and software, radars, avionics, navigation, EW etc. For the last 10 years they have been developing the technology which is now ready to be adopted.

Life of a jet like Su30 with mid life upgrades will be 40-45 years. After 20 years of its induction. If we take 5-6 years to develop and deliver mid life upgrades then only for ~15 remaining years it will remain relevant. Mid life upgrade of first batch of 84 jets should have started before corona.

 

[Sandeep]

Life of a jet like Su30 with mid life upgrades will be 40-45 years. After 20 years of its induction. If we take 5-6 years to develop and deliver mid life upgrades then only for ~15 remaining years it will remain relevant. Mid life upgrade of first batch of 84 jets should have started before corona.

Yes but ours wasn’t ready yet until now. Also how long a jet lasts depends on the amount it’s in use based on hours and service life.