India Could Become Largest Rafale Operator by 2040 with Potential 114 Jets Under MRFA and 31 More Rafale M, Predicts Dassault

[kurtwallis wallis]

F-16 is parkistan chaap jet which was shot down by Mig-21, F-16 is reached its upgrade no further room, its design is very vintage. Bharat want Fighter jet for next 40 to 50 years with Latest design, so keep it with u Samuel Dawson

USA will not allowed IAF to select Gripen-E which is anyways costlier than F16 "chaap jets"... MAIN THING is to start 5th gen. SEF SU75 jet co-developments jv with Russia Sukhoi-HAL...

 

[Vijigishu ( विजिग्शु )]

Don't know what kind of trust govt has over HAL and ADA. MRFA should've been signed long back. There was nothing ever on option since we bought 36 rafaels and 26 Ms for navy. Any other jet in MRFA will defy all the logic of interoperability and logistics.

 

[Dredd]

USA will not allowed IAF to select Gripen-E which is anyways costlier than F16 "chaap jets"... MAIN THING is to start 5th gen. SEF SU75 jet co-developments jv with Russia Sukhoi-HAL...

you have Americanophobia

 

[Sudha]

We have been waiting for 4 decades. No more waiting.

Privatise HAL "yes". Close DRDO "no". DRDO is the only institution which is doing R&D and has introduced many indigenous tech. Moreover in missiles & radars they are very good. All you want is import more of french products. No DRDO more imports from french, isn't it?

 

[Sudha]

you have Americanophobia

One should be for US always backstabs.

 

[Akshat]

Privatise HAL "yes". Close DRDO "no". DRDO is the only institution which is doing R&D and has introduced many indigenous tech. Moreover in missiles & radars they are very good. All you want is import more of french products. No DRDO more imports from french, isn't it?

No DRDO means more funds for others to actually develop the tech. And I have already dismantled your claim in missiles many a times and you always run away. How is it very good when they have no atgm, no Manpads, 90s era tech in bvraams, no ccm, no cruise missile, no albm etc.? But all you want is to burn money in these useless socialistic employment guarantee schemes.

 

[Superpower Bharat]

India is not limited to HAL and DRDO. They represent the worst of us, if anything.

Till date maximum no. Of aircraft and helicopter used by armed forces made by HAL. Maximum weapons used by armed forces even our nuclear arsenal design and develop by DRDO... And u want to sell those companies... Great... Ok after shutdown these 2 who will do the job for our country.... Did u think our pvt con. Has the capability to pickup the job where these 2 left and complete it .. boss they.cant even make an ATGM... Forget the project Kusha level project. GOI now encouraging pvt. Cons by providing funds. But to catch up drdo those pvt cons. Need required time as well as change of mindset... So u can't close these 2 by tomorrow and think everything will be go as it is by pvt. Cons. So keep patience... What u want will happen but it takes another 10-15 years.. and also GOI policy and approach towards indigenous product also must stay unchanged during this period. Negative import list must be expanded and in future 90% tenders must be IDDM catagory....

 

[M S Chatterji]

It will costs IAF $340 millions usd per Rafale F4.2 jet manufactured locally in India!! Better to select F16 Blk72 on MRFA for Tatas-LM plant in India; and next pursue SU75 co-developments by jv HAL-Sukhoi next...

Quote the reference to $340 million per jet.

 

[Rinku Pandey]

I think like they ended the MMRCA circus by ordering 2 sqdns of Rafales, IAF will end this MRFA circus by ordering 1 or 2 sqdns more and then start a new FGFA circus!

IAF Never ended anything. GOI ended it. It is GOI which is putting pressure on IAF.

 

[Raja Raja Cholan]

Yeah... won't happen. Tejas deliveries may stabilise a few years in the future, but that assumes deliveries are consistent and HAL can get its act together.

In any case, MRFA is a quantitative necessity due to simple math. The level of scaling up that would be required to get the IAF up to 42 squadrons and replace the Jaguar, MiG-29, and Mirage 2000s will not be possible.

As such, without MRFA, the IAF won't hit 42 squadrons until well into the 2040s, and by then, you'll have the replacements for the Su-30MKI, Rafale, and any Tejas Mk 1s left coming up. In that scenario, 42 squadrons would be a pipe dream until the 2060s.

With the 6 squadrons under MRFA, we can push that whole thing ahead by 7-8 years. More importantly, that will allow us to maintain a sizeable force throughout the transition period of the 2050s (as the Su-30MKI, Rafale, and Tejas Mk 1s retire).

I think the failure to take proactive steps in acquiring MRFA is
due to non committal mindset of certain parties vested with power to make the decision. The is the very reason why it has been dragging on for very long time and still there is no sign of hope that it will ever happen. The cabinet committee on security is not bothered or concerned about the gap in maintaining an ideal number of fighter squadrons to face the two pronged attack. They are with the believe that Tejas Mk1A and Mk2 and eventually AMCA will be sufficient to fulfil the 42 squadrons. But the question is when this will ever become a reality. The def minister and the CCS will not be there for so who will take responsibility for blunders.

 

[Dredd]

Let us wait for 6 months and let the deliveries of mk1a be stable. Many of govt insecurities about tejas will be cleared.

More mk1as and huge no of mk2 is the answer to all our problems.

from 2016 to 2024 only 36-38 tejas has been delivered, Even initially contracted trainers are not delivered, How can you trust HAL on delivery schedule.

 

[Akshat]

Till date maximum no. Of aircraft and helicopter used by armed forces made by HAL. Maximum weapons used by armed forces even our nuclear arsenal design and develop by DRDO... And u want to sell those companies... Great... Ok after shutdown these 2 who will do the job for our country.... Did u think our pvt con. Has the capability to pickup the job where these 2 left and complete it .. boss they.cant even make an ATGM... Forget the project Kusha level project. GOI now encouraging pvt. Cons by providing funds. But to catch up drdo those pvt cons. Need required time as well as change of mindset... So u can't close these 2 by tomorrow and think everything will be go as it is by pvt. Cons. So keep patience... What u want will happen but it takes another 10-15 years.. and also GOI policy and approach towards indigenous product also must stay unchanged during this period. Negative import list must be expanded and in future 90% tenders must be IDDM catagory....

Maximum planes made by HAL. But which other company was even given a chance? L&T got the chance to make K9 and didn’t they succeed? Tata is making planes via ToT. Private companies got the chance and didn’t they make drone swarms? So don’t raise this bogeyman. Turkey had little plane making experience. Yet they started after us, and flew their fifth gen plane while ours is nowhere in sight. True or not? So anyone can start today and still will end up winning against HAL and DRDO. Their existence is not helping us but working in the negative direction. They eat everything and give nothing. Anyone else, literally anyone, can do a better job, given the same set of resources and support.

 

[PKPRS]

Quote the reference to $340 million per jet.

22 Rafale-M F3 and 4 used Rafale-B were quoted $253Mln/item before India specific MODS, Rafale F4.2 with India specific MODs made in India will cost in excess of $350Mln..Denmark already banned and have sanctioned a part to Tejas yesterday because of GOI’s support to Russia, France will follow soon.

 

[kumar]

Dassault is not showing any interest in manufacturing with 100% tech transfer in India. They want to fully own manufacturing facility in India, which is nothing but import ckd kits and assemble here. And without fully commiting, MRFA type order is not going to dassault.

 

[PKPRS]

Yes we should select Rafale but with upgrades like Mac 2.5 speed powered by two 98 KN engines, MUMT capable and can fire, ASTRA, AIM, BrahMos NG series of missiles !

Yes IAF already wanted to replace Rafale radar and engines as it is too slow, all these changes in Rafale would bring the price to $500Mln/Rafale.

 

[PKPRS]

Some thoughts -
1. India needs MRFA given our delays and fleet depletion and obsolescence…2. Rafales are capable multiple role fighters with more enhancements coming…3. India already operates Rafales and hopefully RafalesMs arrive before 2030, so MRO, spares, training, logistics, some local ecosystem in place…4. Rafales are expensive and TOT/offsets are poor…5. Given Dassault order books even if we sign a deal in 2026, the earliest fly away planes (maybe 18) will not arrive before 2030…And any domestic assembly will not be in place before 2033-2035…6. By 2030 Pakistan will operate stealth fighters and China may have 500-1000 stealth fighters, while we will have none…

So where does that leave us, while Tejas 1As, 2s, and AMCAs are delayed with limited scope for acceleration…Russian weapons are geopolitically a problem…US is unreliable and there are strings attached…

Let us scrap MRFA, pour billions into domestic programs including high thrust engine, kaveri2s, standing up a private sector player as the 2nd fighter player with HAL, accelerate and solve GE404, and assemble GE414 by 2028: start scale production of Tejas 2 by 2030 and AMCA by 2035, approve TEDBF by 2025 and start production by 2032…As insurance buy 24-36 F-35As from the Americans by 2030, even if they come with strings attached…

all is good, But GOI doesn’t want to spend $40Bln for a 4th gen platform, we are already capable of making a similar platform locally for 1/6th the price. I like the scrap MRFA part.

 

[Prit]

from 2016 to 2024 only 36-38 tejas has been delivered, Even initially contracted trainers are not delivered, How can you trust HAL on delivery schedule.

The order of 32 Tejas jets was completed by August 2023. Since trainer aircraft needed redesign, CDR, clearance etc before series production, it took some time. Trainer aircrafts are now under series production and last 4 of them will be delivered by March 2025. 1st trainer aircraft was delivered in October 2023.

 

[Anant]

Till date maximum no. Of aircraft and helicopter used by armed forces made by HAL. Maximum weapons used by armed forces even our nuclear arsenal design and develop by DRDO... And u want to sell those companies... Great... Ok after shutdown these 2 who will do the job for our country.... Did u think our pvt con. Has the capability to pickup the job where these 2 left and complete it .. boss they.cant even make an ATGM... Forget the project Kusha level project. GOI now encouraging pvt. Cons by providing funds. But to catch up drdo those pvt cons. Need required time as well as change of mindset... So u can't close these 2 by tomorrow and think everything will be go as it is by pvt. Cons. So keep patience... What u want will happen but it takes another 10-15 years.. and also GOI policy and approach towards indigenous product also must stay unchanged during this period. Negative import list must be expanded and in future 90% tenders must be IDDM catagory....

1. Except for the trainers, the Marut, the Ajeet, specialised versions of the MiG-21, and the Su-30MKI, any other aircraft assembled by HAL should not be counted as having been built in India. Those license production runs had next to no technology transfer. Almost everything was imported, and other than some very basic materials, little was actually manufactured in India.

2. The same holds true for the helicopters up until the Dhruv.

3. This might surprise you, but in terms of number of weapon systems, we still have a larger number of systems either outright imported or built under license, as compared to weapon systems actually developed in India. One really shouldn't count something like the T-72 as being a made-in-India tank.

4. See, both DRDO and HAL need to get their act together. DRDO has been performing, but their performance has been very slow. That needs to speed up. The same goes for HAL.

 

[kurtwallis wallis]

you have Americanophobia

They control the whole world! 65% imported parts "desi" 100% handmade Tejas will die hard; if USA blocks engines and other parts deliveries to HAL!!

 

[PKPRS]

If capability dictates the priorities of MRFA then Rafale is the ideal choice. If cost dictates the priorities then Gripen. Though many may question Gripens capability, in air to air combat equipped with Meteor missiles it will be more than a match for any 4th gen fighter with our adversary.

it’s the opposite, IAF already wanted to replace the radar with UTTAM and the engines with faster engines, this will only add more cost on top of the already ridiculous price that we paid for these Rafales, what is the point, instead, all these changes could be made to barebones MIG-35 and can be made similar to Rafale.