India-Russia BrahMos-2 Missile Project Stalls Over ToT and Doubled Scramjet Engine Price

NEW DELHI - The ambitious BrahMos-2 hypersonic cruise missile program, a joint venture between India's BrahMos Corporation and Russia, is facing significant challenges that could jeopardize its development. Talks between the two nations have reportedly stalled due to technical disagreements and financial concerns.

The BrahMos-2, envisioned as a hypersonic adaptation of Russia's Zircon cruise missile, was initially designed to achieve Mach 8 speed. However, due to export control concerns, the speed was reportedly capped at Mach 6.

A major point of contention revolves around the scramjet engine technology, crucial for propelling the BrahMos-2 to hypersonic speeds. Russia's reluctance to share the Transfer of Technology (ToT) for this critical component has become a significant roadblock in the project's progress.

Furthermore, Russia's demands for a higher price due to the advanced nature of the scramjet engine have raised concerns about the project's financial viability. Reports suggest that the cost per unit for the BrahMos-2 could be double that of the current BrahMos missile.

The BrahMos-2, designed as a manoeuvrable anti-ship hypersonic cruise missile with a range of 500-1000 kilometers, was expected to significantly enhance India's maritime defense capabilities. However, the current impasse raises doubts about the project's timeline and ultimate success.

The future of the BrahMos-2 program now hinges on India and Russia's ability to overcome these technical and financial hurdles. If they cannot reach a mutually agreeable solution, India may need to explore alternative hypersonic technologies to meet its defense requirements.

 

[Akshat]

Price is the stumbling block else it would have happened 2.5 years back. Russians are not very keen to lower the price even though they are in very bad shape geopolitically. After Ukraine war, China factor is another issue.

If we get the tech at the right price, great. Otherwise, we are developing something similar and in a way it will push us to get there.

There is no proof to back your claim. The only thing that can be said safely is that GoI isn’t interested. My personal view is that the tech is not up to the mark.

 

[abhinav srivastava]

Astra mk-3 isn't stalled , it is going smoothly, we are not dependent on Russia in case of Astra mk-3

Who is developing SFDR engine?. What is the status after 2022 test?

 

[sunilanalysis]

Russian Kinzhals and Zircons flopped in ukraine against Patriot AD....

 

[Sir Capt]

Again. It goes to show who's pulling the strings. All smoke and mirrors.

 

[Tanishq Bafila]

Who is developing SFDR engine?. What is the status after 2022 test?

DRDO has stopped posting update of missile test , 1 year back...

All news comes from ANI now, I don't know if they are asked to do it by GOI or something else..

Regarding Astra Mk-3 it is a complex tech , It will be inducted in next decade or by 2029.. SFDR was successfully tested in 2022 , then making a missile on it is different task... Then it comes to fabrication of some units for tests , it takes few months 4-6 for just fabrication of units...

 

[Sparkle Studio]

Just reverse engineer the scramjet engine used in Brahmos missile and develop then refine the technology for Brahmos 2. Its best to master this vital technology so as to become a major arms exporter and self reliant in defense.

 

[Sharan]

Price is the stumbling block. We need it and we want it.

And also selfishness, this is Russia’s priced tech, will they give away that easily when GOI is not buying much from them nowadays.

 

[Sharan]

They want co-development just like SU30. India is not investing anymore in Russian projects. Hence they will extract the pound of flesh from the hypersonic missile. Nothing wrong. I support them

They have every right to do that, why would they give away their hard learned tech to somebody who is like a chameleon and untrustworthy, they won’t offer anything anymore unless there is a reciprocatory effort from GOI in buying their products.

 

[DrEaDlOcK]

Price is the stumbling block. We need it and we want it.

Overpriced AF. they know how to arma twist us
Look at the history of purchase we have done with em & the profits they've made from us. Using us

 

[PKPRS]

Actually it’s the opposite bro.

Brahmos chairman for a long time has been saying that the missile will be ready 4 years after GoI gives its go ahead. That means that permissions from the Russian government are already in place, at least verbally.

But GoI simply hasn’t given the go ahead so far.

This shows that GoI is not ready to buy it while Russia is begging to sell it.

Like how India refused to buy one more Rafale than the 36 even after Macron, begged, cried and pleaded to buy more than hundred times.

 

[Anant Juwatkar]

Bharat is controlled by USA. Same way now Due to section from USA, Rusia is controled by Channa. This no one can ctroll till conclusion of Ukrain war. This is strategy of china agains dumping duty implemented by Bharat and other diplometc communications. If we stop chaina will win in its strategi.

So do not stop lets go for completely indigeneous hypersonic system including chipsets. It will caust us half of the cost campare to Rusian technology. So india should not stop for any reson.
Further try to eat china chipset market, so every one see the thruth of Bill Gates statement
" If you stop takeing Indian there will be second microsoft in India."
Our scientest already tuch nontuched part of moon. They already want to try more different challenges.

 

[SivaBalan Kumaravel]

Then why Brahmos is asking Russia for ToT of Zircon missile in the first place? They should take help from ISRO instead.

If India going to develope a missile with ISRO's Scramjet tech, then the name of the missile will be something else not Brahmose!

 

[SivaBalan Kumaravel]

Co-development ? Its a joke. Brahmos is just the vehicle to buy technology from Russia and adapt it using Indian suppliers to lower costs. Right from beginning, India has no contribution. Its Yakhont technology that has been adapted for manufacturing in India. We could not even increase the range till the Russians gace it to us. So, for hypersonic Brahmos, it will be pipedream for India till we actually buy it from Russia under the Brahmos vehicle.

Its not like that. From start the range is 800 only but for some audience it was told that it has only 390KMs and repeadtedly tested for that range only. Once we got the MTCR compliance it was tested to its full capability. I suspect now all the missiles including the old one are 800kms capable.

Its nothing to do with Russia, its with the amount of liquid fuel the missile carried.

 

[Akshat]

Like how India refused to buy one more Rafale than the 36 even after Macron, begged, cried and pleaded to buy more than hundred times.

Well he got 36 and then 26. And now IAF has told him that we will buy all 114 with make in India. They are such amazing planes that India can’t have even one less.

 

[MANIVANNAN N]

Isro developed and tested successfully scramjet engine in twin configuration. Drdo may try that one for brama 2.

 

[Anant]

Isro developed and tested successfully scramjet engine in twin configuration. Drdo may try that one for brama 2.

Twin-engines on a missile are unheard of, if that is what you are insinuating. It wouldn't happen because of space and aerodynamic considerations.

 

[Akshat]

They have every right to do that, why would they give away their hard learned tech to somebody who is like a chameleon and untrustworthy, they won’t offer anything anymore unless there is a reciprocatory effort from GOI in buying their products.

Well they are in fact begging us to buy their stuff. But GoI won’t buy anything. Only older deals are being implemented.

 

[YAMA]

Keep hiring people based on caste census and not on capabilities..then expect miracles from DRDO or other Indian entities..

 

[pramodkumar.ca]

How can government fund these projects when 70% of our defence budget goes to salaries, Pension and welfare activities

From last 50 years we were busy buying only and taking kick backs and things would not change over night but now government is defensive mode due lack of political majority so thingsvwould remain same

 

[Deepak Hegde]

Its not like that. From start the range is 800 only but for some audience it was told that it has only 390KMs and repeadtedly tested for that range only. Once we got the MTCR compliance it was tested to its full capability. I suspect now all the missiles including the old one are 800kms capable.

Its nothing to do with Russia, its with the amount of liquid fuel the missile carried.

Sir- Wish it was as simple as you have mentioned. Unfortunately it is not ! Also what you mentioned that is nothing to do with Russia but only with amount of liquid fuel is not at all true. Look up details !

 

[Deepak Hegde]

Partly correct to the extent that we depend on Russia and we bought the tech from them. India has done a good job in our work share in Brahmos JV and it has been increasing continuously. Except for ramjet engine, mostly everything is Indian. In coming months, even fuels for engine is going to be indigenous.

That's exactly what I said. India had nothing to do with the technical part, be it engine, range or speed. What we have been good at is indigenization of components, specially now with engine (if it really comes through!).

 

[vikrant rao]

India should stop depending on russia for scramjet tech. ISRO already has been working on domestic scramjet. We should complete that. It is OK if it takes a long time. Even USA does not have a functional hypersonic weapon yet. It is not that crucial of a tech.

any target that requires a hypersonic weapon strike can also be taken out by subsonic or supersonic weapons, it is just that it will take more number of missiles to destroy it as chance of interception by air defence is higher.

Russia is the world leader in Hypersonics. India trying to do it while US has not managed is a pipe dream! Why will the Russians share precious Hypersonic scramjet tech when India is showing more and more willingness to purchase substandard NATO weapons??

 

[vikrant rao]

Are people forgetting that no other country has managed to perfect hypersonic tech?? The Russians are there only ones with perfected guidance tech and counter measures in their hypersonics. The Chinese can only fire hypersonics at fixed targets but not moving ones! They too are now begging the Russians for this tech and we think India, which has been showing so much interest in substandard NATO weapons that have been fully exposed in Ukraine against last gen Soviet/Russian electronic countermeasures expect the Russians to just share this piece of tech bec we are- India!!? Meanwhile US contractors desperately go around like rag pickers whenever Kinzhal or zircon is used in Ukraine hoping to get some hint of tech!

 

[vikrant rao]

Brahmos is a company with Russian shareholding. But GoI has so far not shown any interest in their project. So Brahmos as a company needs it because Russia as a country wants to sell it and begging us to buy it. But India as a country has no interest in it.

Who says? Brahmos is the most successful Indian defence export in case you didn't know! It is a game changer tks to Russian tech. No other country can give India what the Russians give- and in the process Russians don't try to interfere in Indian politics either.

 

[vikrant rao]

Nope. The tech is useless and Russian claims are way off the mark.

GoI simply doesn’t want it. That’s the only thing that can be said with proof. Rest is all speculation.

What planet do you live on? Brahmos has one of the highest success to failure ratios of any missile ever developed anywhere in the world. Russians don't need it bec they have their own better versions. Zircon does speeds of Mach 12-16, Kinzhal 31 does speeds of Mach 6-8. Find any western missile that does faster than Mach 5!?

 

[vikrant rao]

Overpriced AF. they know how to arma twist us
Look at the history of purchase we have done with em & the profits they've made from us. Using us

Overpriced? Bec it's the best selling defence export that's why. We Indians always want FREE, stuff.

 

[vikrant rao]

Russia is facing a tough time with MRFA because their offerings are not that good. If they wanted to offer the Su-35 with any chance of victory, we here in India may as well buy more Su-30MKIs with AL-41 engines in the Super Sukhoi configuration. As for the MiG-35, that is just a rebranded MiG-29 with the serial numbers filed off.

Russian tech has proven itself in Ukraine if you read anything other than the NYT or WaPo. Russian electronic countermeasures and artillery and self propelled rockets and hypersonics have destroyed everything NATO has thrown at it. Before you go saying old NATO tech rem that NATO patriots and cutting edge AD systems, drones were also destroyed by Russian tech and the Russians have still fought in Ukraine with one hand tied behind the back. Ukraine is suffering bec NATO weapons are designed in Hollywood and required too much sophistication whereas Russian tech is suited to Indian conditions of rough use, wear and tear and cheap maintenance.

 

[vikrant rao]

We were co-developing the Su-57 and the FGFA, but we pulled out once we realised the Russians were overselling the fighter's capabilities.

They can extract whatever they want to. If it is not beneficial for India, then the Russians can take a walk.

Oh, and it isn't a matter of supporting this side or that side. I agree with Russia's stance on many things, and I disagree on many things. However, India's partnership with Russia should be, from our perspective, be beneficial for India, then beneficial for Russia, and then beneficial for others, in that order.

We pulled out bec we did not want to commit to purchase as India was leaning west it was a strategic decision . Why should Russia share critical TOT of engines in that case?? We only want FREE stuff assuming the world needs us more than we need them. Russian S75 checkmate concept of AI wingman and drone is now being copied by Eurofighter and Lockheed. Don't underestimate the Russians just bec they don't make Hollywood movies. Don't be so enamored of 'Goras'.

 

[Akshat]

What planet do you live on? Brahmos has one of the highest success to failure ratios of any missile ever developed anywhere in the world. Russians don't need it bec they have their own better versions. Zircon does speeds of Mach 12-16, Kinzhal 31 does speeds of Mach 6-8. Find any western missile that does faster than Mach 5!?

I am talking about their hypersonic missiles which GoI has refused and Ukraine has successfully intercepted many times.

 

[Akshat]

Who says? Brahmos is the most successful Indian defence export in case you didn't know! It is a game changer tks to Russian tech. No other country can give India what the Russians give- and in the process Russians don't try to interfere in Indian politics either.

I am talking about Brahmos 2, not Brahmos.