India-Russia BrahMos-2 Missile Project Stalls Over ToT and Doubled Scramjet Engine Price

Brahmos-II.jpg


NEW DELHI - The ambitious BrahMos-2 hypersonic cruise missile program, a joint venture between India's BrahMos Corporation and Russia, is facing significant challenges that could jeopardize its development. Talks between the two nations have reportedly stalled due to technical disagreements and financial concerns.

The BrahMos-2, envisioned as a hypersonic adaptation of Russia's Zircon cruise missile, was initially designed to achieve Mach 8 speed. However, due to export control concerns, the speed was reportedly capped at Mach 6.

A major point of contention revolves around the scramjet engine technology, crucial for propelling the BrahMos-2 to hypersonic speeds. Russia's reluctance to share the Transfer of Technology (ToT) for this critical component has become a significant roadblock in the project's progress.

Furthermore, Russia's demands for a higher price due to the advanced nature of the scramjet engine have raised concerns about the project's financial viability. Reports suggest that the cost per unit for the BrahMos-2 could be double that of the current BrahMos missile.

The BrahMos-2, designed as a manoeuvrable anti-ship hypersonic cruise missile with a range of 500-1000 kilometers, was expected to significantly enhance India's maritime defense capabilities. However, the current impasse raises doubts about the project's timeline and ultimate success.

The future of the BrahMos-2 program now hinges on India and Russia's ability to overcome these technical and financial hurdles. If they cannot reach a mutually agreeable solution, India may need to explore alternative hypersonic technologies to meet its defense requirements.
 
Partly correct to the extent that we depend on Russia and we bought the tech from them. India has done a good job in our work share in Brahmos JV and it has been increasing continuously. Except for ramjet engine, mostly everything is Indian. In coming months, even fuels for engine is going to be indigenous.
That's exactly what I said. India had nothing to do with the technical part, be it engine, range or speed. What we have been good at is indigenization of components, specially now with engine (if it really comes through!).
 
India should stop depending on russia for scramjet tech. ISRO already has been working on domestic scramjet. We should complete that. It is OK if it takes a long time. Even USA does not have a functional hypersonic weapon yet. It is not that crucial of a tech.

any target that requires a hypersonic weapon strike can also be taken out by subsonic or supersonic weapons, it is just that it will take more number of missiles to destroy it as chance of interception by air defence is higher.
Russia is the world leader in Hypersonics. India trying to do it while US has not managed is a pipe dream! Why will the Russians share precious Hypersonic scramjet tech when India is showing more and more willingness to purchase substandard NATO weapons??
 
Are people forgetting that no other country has managed to perfect hypersonic tech?? The Russians are there only ones with perfected guidance tech and counter measures in their hypersonics. The Chinese can only fire hypersonics at fixed targets but not moving ones! They too are now begging the Russians for this tech and we think India, which has been showing so much interest in substandard NATO weapons that have been fully exposed in Ukraine against last gen Soviet/Russian electronic countermeasures expect the Russians to just share this piece of tech bec we are- India!!? Meanwhile US contractors desperately go around like rag pickers whenever Kinzhal or zircon is used in Ukraine hoping to get some hint of tech!
 
Brahmos is a company with Russian shareholding. But GoI has so far not shown any interest in their project. So Brahmos as a company needs it because Russia as a country wants to sell it and begging us to buy it. But India as a country has no interest in it.
Who says? Brahmos is the most successful Indian defence export in case you didn't know! It is a game changer tks to Russian tech. No other country can give India what the Russians give- and in the process Russians don't try to interfere in Indian politics either.
 
Nope. The tech is useless and Russian claims are way off the mark.

GoI simply doesn’t want it. That’s the only thing that can be said with proof. Rest is all speculation.
What planet do you live on? Brahmos has one of the highest success to failure ratios of any missile ever developed anywhere in the world. Russians don't need it bec they have their own better versions. Zircon does speeds of Mach 12-16, Kinzhal 31 does speeds of Mach 6-8. Find any western missile that does faster than Mach 5!?
 
Overpriced AF. they know how to arma twist us
Look at the history of purchase we have done with em & the profits they've made from us. Using us
Overpriced? Bec it's the best selling defence export that's why. We Indians always want FREE, stuff.
 
Russia is facing a tough time with MRFA because their offerings are not that good. If they wanted to offer the Su-35 with any chance of victory, we here in India may as well buy more Su-30MKIs with AL-41 engines in the Super Sukhoi configuration. As for the MiG-35, that is just a rebranded MiG-29 with the serial numbers filed off.
Russian tech has proven itself in Ukraine if you read anything other than the NYT or WaPo. Russian electronic countermeasures and artillery and self propelled rockets and hypersonics have destroyed everything NATO has thrown at it. Before you go saying old NATO tech rem that NATO patriots and cutting edge AD systems, drones were also destroyed by Russian tech and the Russians have still fought in Ukraine with one hand tied behind the back. Ukraine is suffering bec NATO weapons are designed in Hollywood and required too much sophistication whereas Russian tech is suited to Indian conditions of rough use, wear and tear and cheap maintenance.
 
We were co-developing the Su-57 and the FGFA, but we pulled out once we realised the Russians were overselling the fighter's capabilities.

They can extract whatever they want to. If it is not beneficial for India, then the Russians can take a walk.

Oh, and it isn't a matter of supporting this side or that side. I agree with Russia's stance on many things, and I disagree on many things. However, India's partnership with Russia should be, from our perspective, be beneficial for India, then beneficial for Russia, and then beneficial for others, in that order.
We pulled out bec we did not want to commit to purchase as India was leaning west it was a strategic decision . Why should Russia share critical TOT of engines in that case?? We only want FREE stuff assuming the world needs us more than we need them. Russian S75 checkmate concept of AI wingman and drone is now being copied by Eurofighter and Lockheed. Don't underestimate the Russians just bec they don't make Hollywood movies. Don't be so enamored of 'Goras'.
 
What planet do you live on? Brahmos has one of the highest success to failure ratios of any missile ever developed anywhere in the world. Russians don't need it bec they have their own better versions. Zircon does speeds of Mach 12-16, Kinzhal 31 does speeds of Mach 6-8. Find any western missile that does faster than Mach 5!?
I am talking about their hypersonic missiles which GoI has refused and Ukraine has successfully intercepted many times.
 
Who says? Brahmos is the most successful Indian defence export in case you didn't know! It is a game changer tks to Russian tech. No other country can give India what the Russians give- and in the process Russians don't try to interfere in Indian politics either.
I am talking about Brahmos 2, not Brahmos.
 
With over 18 IITS and equal no NITS DRDO must institute scholarships and grants to students and professors to excel and carry out cutting edge research on metallurgy , carbon composites , ceramics , engines and controls .Joining incentives of a few lakhs be given to passing out students in subjects requiring research development by DRDO , ISRO , ATOMIC energy and the fresh blood put to work on projects with senior designers and engineers.With many IIT students out of jobs many will e attracted and willing to work on contract for projects for 5, 7, 10 ,12 ,15 yrs .
 
Well they are in fact begging us to buy their stuff. But GoI won’t buy anything. Only older deals are being implemented.
Macron is the one who begged, cried and pleaded more than 100 times to buy one more Rafale and we refused.
 
We pulled out bec we did not want to commit to purchase as India was leaning west it was a strategic decision . Why should Russia share critical TOT of engines in that case?? We only want FREE stuff assuming the world needs us more than we need them. Russian S75 checkmate concept of AI wingman and drone is now being copied by Eurofighter and Lockheed. Don't underestimate the Russians just bec they don't make Hollywood movies. Don't be so enamored of 'Goras'.
I am not enamoured of anyone. I'd rather have nothing to do with these 'Goras', considering the nonsense they have pulled in the past and continue to pull. Now, I agree with your point about us banking a tad too much on the need dynamics, but the reason we did not purchase the Su-57 was because we realised it was not going to be as stealthy as the Russians planned for it to be, and because there were disagreements on ToT.

Coming to AI wingmen and drones, that concept was already being developed by multiple nations almost simultaneously. The US, Russia, China, India, and Australia (technically America) have all been investigating the concept since the mid-2010s, with aircraft from the US, Russia, and Australia already having flown. It is only nations like Japan and Germany that have started off a tad late to the concept. So, no one has copied the whole concept.
 
Overpriced? Bec it's the best selling defence export that's why. We Indians always want FREE, stuff.
Bro not asking for free but taking advantage of someone problem/urgent needs and charging them multiple times the actual amount.
 
Russian tech has proven itself in Ukraine if you read anything other than the NYT or WaPo. Russian electronic countermeasures and artillery and self propelled rockets and hypersonics have destroyed everything NATO has thrown at it. Before you go saying old NATO tech rem that NATO patriots and cutting edge AD systems, drones were also destroyed by Russian tech and the Russians have still fought in Ukraine with one hand tied behind the back. Ukraine is suffering bec NATO weapons are designed in Hollywood and required too much sophistication whereas Russian tech is suited to Indian conditions of rough use, wear and tear and cheap maintenance.
I am not ragging on Russian equipment. Despite the fact that Russia has lost literally thousands of pieces of equipment in Ukraine, that isn't to say anything negative (up until a point, because Russian equipment, while cheaper, is also more vulnerable in many ways) about their stuff. Russia's strengths remain their artillery and EW capabilities, which is something they have carried from the days of the USSR.

However, there is also no denying that Russia is also increasingly relying on modernised versions of late Soviet-era equipment. You can modernise a T-72 as much as you want, but unless you can fix some of its crucial weaknesses, you'll still lose over a thousand of them.

That said, my simple point is this: Russia's offerings in MRFA are irrelevant because we have better alternatives for both their offerings. Want Su-35s? Just go for more Su-30MKIs with the AL-41 engine and the Super Sukhoi upgrades. Want the MiG-35? Do you really want a rebranded MiG-29 / MiG-29K? In this day and age? A similar problem exists for the other offerings as well to an extent, but not as much: The Americans are offering the F-15EX and F-16V / F-21. Both of them are legacy aircraft, but have been very extensively modernised. The Brits are offering the Typhoon. The French are offering the Rafale. Both of the latter are relatively modern. The Swedes are offering the Gripen E, but you may as well go for the Tejas Mk 2 instead (as and when that aircraft does enter service).
 
In the Israel most of us believe that this concept is absolutely unviable:- advanced AI would not need the human help. That will not help us, will only hinder... Regards...
 
This is a good opportunity to gain expertise in short run and get ToT for scramjet and than such up price inflation for some time and get further in overall missile development scenarios.
 
Russia is the world leader in Hypersonics. India trying to do it while US has not managed is a pipe dream! Why will the Russians share precious Hypersonic scramjet tech when India is showing more and more willingness to purchase substandard NATO weapons??
For ToT India should never trust US over Russians.
 

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